| Author | Message | ||
     Gregtonn |
Semi auto anything can only be loaded with 7 rounds or you are a felon & a terrorist. This might be an option to consider https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/9/3 /review-troy-223-national-sporting-pump-action-rif le/ G | ||
| Gregtonn |
Oh by the way, just to sweeten the pot, the Troy pump is available in .223, .308 and .300 Blackout. G | ||
| Aesquire |
Further up the thread you'll find Why I don't go for the Troy. Simply, State LE will confiscate for investigation, legal costs to get my own, legal, gun back will be many times the cost of the gun, take months to years, and they will steal the optics and trash the gun, returning broken junk to me with a cheerful "shut up or we'll arrest you". That's from multiple sources. The local shop won't touch legal "thumb your nose" guns for that reason. I have zero doubt that "an optimum" defensive rifle is a carbine length AR. It's just not an option, nor are most semi autos. I could use an SKS, but it has a good chance of being an issue at the range, laws mean nothing to our Governor, and State LE takes it's attitude from him. Thus.... Lever gun/revolver. Sure, I'm going back over a century in technology, but I'll use modern optics, and a musket ball is just as effective at stopping a fight as ever. Modern, flat nose, polymer tip big hollow point are state of the art in handgun ammo. They work fine in a lever gun, if length is proper. And in rifle & pistol, Hornady LEVERevolution ammo is very good. I haven't tried the pistol ammo, but in .30-30 they are excellent. https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/leverevolution#!/ In 9mm Hornady Critical Defense is state of the art, nigh perfection. IF it feeds nice in YOUR gun. It usually does, but run a few boxes through to test that before choosing. That's true for ANY ammo. Speer has ammo for short barrels with minimal flash, Federal Hydra-shok is well proven, and Winchester has a practice/defense matched ballistics pair that hits to same point of aim, is reasonable for practice cost ( but not as good as white box ) with the "serious" load having low flash and reduced recoil. https://mygunculture.com/ammo-review-winchester-am munition-train-and-defend/ Bottom line? It's a Golden Age for ammo. The available premium offerings are tested, excellent, and more effective than 20 years ago by any measure. An order of magnitude better. So it's ALL about what feeds best in your gun. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I run the Critical Defense in my .38 OP...I guess I'll "have" to throw some variations downrange from the XDs as "experimentation"  | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm against ball ammo. I didn't sign the Geneva conventions and I'm concerned with over penetration and effectiveness. The "icepick" problem with ball is why we've had a century of the cult of the "has to begin with a four". Simply a .45 makes a bigger hole & hits harder than 9mm with ball. Modern expanding ammo changes that. A .45acp still hits harder, and makes a bigger hole, all else being equal, but also weighs more, kicks harder, usually is bigger and harder to hide, and costs more. I used to like Federal expanding full metal jacket, but I think it's discontinued. It fed perfect, looked good in gel tests, and blows water filled milk jugs to shreds in a very satisfying spray. It was a loophole solution for European and domestic anti-hollow point laws, but a well done product. The polymer filled big hollow bullets now in use work well on barrier tests. The industry is very marketing oriented on the FBI tests, which call for expansion after shooting through cars and walls, with strict numbers on penetration. Arguably, a less effective pure defensive bullet than one not optimized for shooting fleeing felons in their cars. That's why Hornady and others have both LE & civilian offerings. Critical Duty is the cop round. Critical Defense is the civilian round. It's got better expansion than the cop round, but isn't as good at shooting people in Buicks. | ||
| Ratbuell |
which...technically (at least here in the PR of MD)...civilians aren't supposed to do anyway, without Stand Your Ground laws. And really...I'm fine with that. If they're leaving, I'm able to see another sunrise. I'm not a cop; it's not my job to bring someone to justice. It's my job to keep breathing. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Further up the thread you'll find Why I don't go for the Troy. At some point someone should stand their ground. If you don't it's your own damn fault that they get by with it. G | ||
| Aesquire |
Sounds great. Passed the law after midnight. In secret. No public release until after it was law. Written by Bloomberg's anti-gun staff. Didn't even allow police to carry more than 7 in the magazine. Yes, I joked that the deputies I met daily were under arrest. No I didn't call another agency to come down and arrest cops in the county jail for being felons. Why? because I try to save my stupid for things that are more fun than being a jerk. Excuse for the secret law? The Governor didn't want any runs on the stores. So he declared it an emergency measure to screw the citizens, and up yours if you don't like it. This is a guy who has his State Police Convoy send pre runners down the route to steal yard signs for ABATE and gun rights orgs, so he doesn't have to see them. No that's not a joke. So... Stand my ground? I predicted some form of anti-gun crud, but not this. I gave away anything that I figured was going to be banned, and still had to dump a pile of Colt mags at a gunshow for 50 cents on the dollar.... AND drive to Ohio to legally do so. ( there was a grace period to sell out of state ) I wasn't going to drive to Albany to protest when it can do no good. And, despite some of my posts, I don't think I'm Rambo, or James Bond or ever was. I missed out on the Smoke Knight training. ( points for the reference ) Thus I'm starting my collection almost from scrap. I've still got a shotgun, so I can shoot trap, and a Winchester 1894 that's probably older than I am, and I'm not likely to try and make it anything it isn't. I'm also looking for used, since a brand new Marlin is over a grand. And I'm not sure they've fixed the quality issues they had when the Megacorp bought them and moved all the old tooling to a new plant. There was a lot of the manufacturing process that just didn't make the move, and some stuff that literally hasn't existed in decades, if ever. Like gauges and, say, actual full blueprints. So Remington had to retool, and reverse engineer the darn things. So the exact gun? I like the Marlin model 1894 CSBL stainless one with the rail & XS ghost ring sight. But if I find a cowboy action model in .38? If I find a Puma '92 clone? I like Scout scopes, I could deal. It's a quest, and an excuse to go shopping. Might take a while. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Your statement regarding single action vs swing out reload: But reloading is glacial... That's true for break action & side swing revolvers too, but to a lesser degree. Not a LOT lesser... Seriously? Are you really familiar with firearms? Ejecting spent rounds from most single action revolver requires opening the loading gate then manual manipulation of the ejection rod then manual rotation of the cylinder to the next camber to eject the next spent round. Reloading requires manual rotation of the cylinder to load each round then closing the loading gate. Most break action or swing cylinder pistols eject the entire cylinder with a single stroke of the ejection rod. Reloading is then accomplished one round at a time without rotation or with "speed loaders". G | ||
| Blake |
Joe, I'm convinced that this is the cartridge of the future. The advertising is not exaggeration. Every YouTube video I've seen of it being tested is very complimentary. It's just very expensive. https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun- ammo/products/9mm-luger-plus-p-plus-90-grain-xtrem e-defender Other potency and bullet weight combinations are available: https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun- ammo/cartridge_9mm-luger+product-line_xtreme-defen der | ||
| Zac4mac |
I have Underwoods for the 1911A1. Found out they don't cycle well so I rounded them a little and they feed fine now. I like them a lot and there's a couple of companies making lead free copper deep hollow points that are low mass high speed. Haven't found much ammo that won't feed in that pistol. Z | ||
| Aesquire |
Gregtonn, compared to changing magazines in, say, a 1911, any revolver is slow. All the fine manipulation of cartridges takes place off the clock. SAA is glacial. S&W top break is much faster. And with moon clips you get close to magazine fed pistols, but I'm not Jerry Miculik. Feeding off a cartridge belt? All revolvers are in the same category. It's a relative matter. I'm no Chuck Norris either, even with decades of training. I won't even claim to be as far above a Hong Kong movie buff with zero training as Chuck is above me. Too old & slow. Some, but....... Now I feel the need to practice with my gear to get back up to crappy, from rusty & hopeless. Thanks. | ||
| Ducbsa |
Fugitives from justice? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secr ets/fbi-record-number-of-illegal-immigrants-tried- to-buy-guns | ||
| Ratbuell |
Nearly EIGHT MILLION?? Wow. And people wonder why legal, law-abiding citizens feel the need for personal protection? How many of those 7.8 million illegals went to the black market, after the fed disqualified them from a legal purchase? | ||
| Airbozo |
When the SO and I were filling out the paperwork for our latest purchases, the guys behind the counter were telling us some pretty funny stories about the illegal immigrants trying to buy guns. They even checked the box stating they were not US citizens because they thought if they told the truth their application would be ok'd. Can't fix stupid. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/28/repo rt-nj-residents-not-surrendering-high-capacity-mag azines-state-police/ Standing their ground. | ||
| Ourdee |
Now to educate the people of NJ on a jurors first responsibility to nullify a bad law by refusing to find guilty anyone who gets tried at trial for having a standard magazine in their AR. A juror is the judge and has more power than the person called a judge. A juror can judge the law. | ||
| Ourdee |
http://caught.net/juror.htm At the time the Constitution was written, the definition of the term "jury" referred to a group of citizens empowered to judge both the law and the evidence in the case before it. Then, in the February term of 1794, the Supreme Court conducted a jury trial in the case of the State of Georgia vs. Brailsford (3 Dall 1). The instructions to the jury in the first jury trial before the Supreme Court of the United States illustrate the true power of the jury. Chief Justice John Jay said: "It is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the other hand, presumed that courts are the best judges of law. But still both objects are within your power of decision." (emphasis added) "...you have a right to take it upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy". If you have not read this, you may want to look at the link above. | ||
| Ratbuell |
(former NYC police commissioner) Kerik said, “NJ Governor @GovMurphy is endangering the life of every off duty NJ cop! Gang bangers, drug thugs and really bad guys don’t give a damn about magazine capacity… So he takes the good guy’s ammunition, and the bad guys are loaded for bear!” Pretty much. And, it's not just off-duty LEOs being put at risk. For the EXACT SAME REASON. | ||
| Ducbsa |
https://lidblog.com/gao-report-over-weaponized/ The IRS has machine guns? What are their rules of engagement? | ||
| Crusty |
The IRS has machine guns? What are their rules of engagement? Pay your income tax; or else! | ||
| Blake |
DucBSA, Under the Obama administration, non-military executive branch armament increased by more than 60%. It happened in virtually all executive branch departments/agencies/bureaus/administrations including the departments of Agriculture, Education, Health & Human Services, etc. "We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." Barack Hussein Obama https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/10/remem ber_obamas_civilian_national_security_force.html | ||
| Blake |
The bewilderingly racist Huffington Post asks "Why Do Black People Own Guns"? https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-gun-own ership_us_5a33fc38e4b040881bea2f37 The conclusion, which they fail to convey is simply "for the same reasons as all other law-abiding, freedom-loving American gun owners." Note also that they lay the racist gun control policies at the feet of American in general, rather than honestly admit that in virtually all cases it has always been and remains the overtly racist policies of Democrats that seek to prevent blacks from owning guns. Racist bigots are funny people. (Message edited by Blake on January 01, 2019) | ||
| Aesquire |
Finally we see the 2nd Amendment as INTENDED!  | ||
| Ratbuell |
bear-arms? "We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." Barack Hussein Obama well...if he hadn't de-funded the military into near-extinction he wouldn't have had to arm the other agencies (the fact it was his plan all along is immaterial). And...if you simply allow law-abiding citizens to arm themselves...it won't cost the government a DIME. Of course, that would assume the People, and the Government, are on the same side of the issues.... | ||
| Thumper74 |
I've added a few to the family since my post about the AR pistols... Canik TP9sfx Canik TP9sf GSG Firefly (threaded barrel) Silencer Co Warlock Suppressor (waiting on tax stamp...) Republic Firearms RF9 pistol  My wife's G42 since she got her CCW with her mom. The Duracoat is chipping badly. The person who did it did not bead blast it, they just sprayed over the factory coating... I'll need to get it Cerakoated for her.  Her mom picked up a Ruger  Logan is going for the high cap Nerf mag  | ||
| Ducbsa |
https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/01/02/ca ldara-on-january-1-i-became-a-gun-criminal-in-my-h ometown-of-boulder/ | ||
| Aesquire |
A further note on stand your ground. I have no intention of resisting arrest, ever. Never want to shoot the deputy. There are rare cases where self defense extends to law enforcement, but you better not count on winning that argument in court. I already contribute to pro rights organizations. One in N.Y. had some kind of coup, and some faction took over the money, rather like happened in The Women's March, but afaik without the Jew Hatred. My legislators know my opinion. I've signed petitions. I'm at the legal limit short of marching in front of the Capitol. But, The Greenie extreme folk that support killing everyone who disagrees is discussed on the climate thread. They exist, but aren't relevant here. So.... What more can I do? I'm certainly not going to tell you I have a Browning 1917 in .30-06 buried in the garden next to the chestnut tree. Waiting for the counter revolution. I don't, and if I did, I'd be incredibly stupid to tell the planet, eh? Besides, to quote Danny Glover before he went Chavista, "I'm getting too old for this shit". Revolvers. True, even my default system for reloading a snubby, speed strips, beats a SAA by a country mile. But a Glock reload vs. a Bodyguard is still light seconds ahead. If I ignore the lever gun project, my ideal would be a 9mm with full moon clips in a small revolver. Ammo is a bit bulkier and harder to hide, ( speed strips rule there ) but speed is tactically reasonable. There's a reason semi autos rule in competition, combat, and sales. But there are still advantages for revolvers. They don't throw brass around, except when reloading. Not littering is good. The failure drill mostly involves pulling the trigger again. ( but if a revolver jams, it takes time, and maybe a chunk of wood or a shop, to clear ) And for hunting dangerous game, a revolver can digest ammo that even a 10mm Glock or Desert Eagle chokes on. I don't live with the big brown bears, so that last doesn't apply to me. | ||
| Zac4mac |
My pocket carry is a wheelgun. It's backups are semis. with multiple clips. Z | ||
| Gregtonn |
A further note on stand your ground. My point is buy what you think you need and is legal where you are. The whole rifle pistol thing is for a survival/SHTF more than a home defense situation. I have several packs and cases with matching rifle and pistol calibers for me and trusted individuals for SHTF situations. Whether you fear law enforcement officers breaking the law is up to you. G |
