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Falloutnl
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It would be a conspiracy of truly Machiavellian proportions.

Honest question: are there reputable sources (not Breitbart) to support those claims? Like proper investigative journalism that has unearthed wrong doing of that enormous scale (involving multiple organisations and more than 4000 scientists)?
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So you think that is analogous to the climate debate?

Show the data and present the logical argument that manmade CO2 is leading to global climate catastrophy.

I've been asking people to do that for a decade, still no takers, always and ever the same nonsense in return, appeals to consensus, appeals to authority, appeals to all kinds of logical fallacies, never a logical argument supported by hard data, and one that addresses the hard data that falsifies the alarmist narrative.
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Falloutnl
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just look at Venus. It shouldn't even take that many scientists to figure it out.
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

FalloutNL,

Concerning the touted "consensus" or 97%...

"The Doran paper has been criticised by many sceptics in the past, where a survey of 10,256 with 3146 respondents was whittled down to 75 out of 77 “expert” ‘active climate researchers’ (ACR) to give the 97% figure, based on just two very simplistic (shallow) questions that even the majority of sceptics might agree with."

from https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/what-else-d id-the-97-of-scientists-say/
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 05:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When this happens, the model ensemble has been falsified:


IPCC Climate Model Falsification


from www.remss.com on their climate page.
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When theory says that storms will increase in frequency and/or intensity, but this happens, the theory is falsified:

Storms not more frequent:

Storms Not More Frequent



Cyclones Not More Frequent




Storm Energy Not Increasing:

Storm Energy Not Increasing
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 06:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Just look at Venus. It shouldn't even take that many scientists to figure it out."

So you're saying that cause Venus smoking hot and has an atmosphere of CO2 and sulfuric acid that is 90 times more dense than ours (the pressure there being equivalent to being under 300 feet of water on Earth) that if our atmosphere goes from 0.04% to 0.06% CO2 that we'll be doomed?

What about Mars? It's atmosphere is 95% CO2, but mean surface temp there is reportedly around 130°F (54°C) colder than Earth's balmy 57°F (14°C).
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 06:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Record high temperatures are less frequent:


Record High Temperatures Are Less Frequent
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Sifo
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Falloutnl, seriously... How do you accept what is shown in this simple graph. It's the same data, three years apart. It's been "adjusted" to add a full 1/10 of a degree of warming to the trend. That would be about 1/4 degree per century, just in a three year "adjustment"! Are you really going to tell me that in 2014 scientists still can't read a thermometer? The really sad thing is that the baseline data I had 3 years ago had already gone through a number of similar adjustments. I would really be surprised if there isn't more than a full degree per century of "adjustment" built into the current records. It's easy to claim that you can find graphs to say anything you want. What this graph says is that the data is being manipulated to say what they want.

Let me put it to you this way... If you were diagnosed with cancer, but knew for a fact that the data the doctor was using to say you had cancer was falsified, would you really let him treat you? That would be called malpractice!



Thanks for playing though. I just can't understand the constant ability of liberals to ignore factual proof. It's a scary universe you folks live in.
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 07:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

But look at forest fires, now so much worse?


Forest Fires Declined



Less Forest Fires
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

To further the doctor analogy, what if you could demonstrate that the lab was falsifying your blood work in order to make your doctor think you have cancer and prescribe a really expensive treatment?
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 08:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The "evolution" of the U.S. temperature record. This is the same record that HadCRUT, BEST, GISS, NCDC, and others use:


NASA Tampering With U.S. Temperature Record


The red and blue plots are the ones Tom (Sifo) ran into in his data research. But there was a change in 2001 too.

And...


Yet more tampering with the U.S. temp. record


And...


Corrupting the U.S. temperature record
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 08:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If the temperature don't fit, you must acquit. CO2 is innocent.


Percent USHCN Stations Over 95 Deg. F



U.S. Peak Daily Temperature Trend
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tampering with temperature records:


Hansen Tampering with Temperature Records
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 10:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Comparing the current warm period aka "interglacial" to the previous three, notice anything interesting?:


Comparing Interglacials


"YBP" means years before present.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 - 02:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://babylonbee.com/news/elon-musk-cancels-bori ng-project-after-delving-too-deep-unearthing-balro g

97% of scientists would refuse to battle a Balrog.

Makes a heck of a metaphor for coal field subterranean fires. "Too greedily & too deep".
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Ducbsa
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 - 05:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fallout, have you read this about the 97%?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/10/climate-cha nge-no-its-not-97-percent-consensus-ian-tuttle/?ta rget=topic&tid=1853

Does that seem like a reasonable basis for what the climatistas have in mind for us?

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/29/un-appointe d-climate-science-team-demands-the-end-of-capitali sm/

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/clim ate/global-warming-is-about-destroying-capitalism/
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 - 06:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-global-carbon-tax -revolt-1543880507

First Amendment violation. The State religion you must tithe to.

http://www.climatedepot.com/2018/12/03/un-climate- chief-has-solution-to-urgent-climate-threat-we-req uire-deep-transformations-of-our-economies-and-soc ieties/

The Purpose of the movement is to create a global dictat to rule all mankind by an unelected permanent elite.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 - 11:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/201 0/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluorid e

.... elemental fluorine has commanded respect since well before anyone managed to isolate it, a process that took a good fifty years to work out in the 1800s. (The list of people who were blown up or poisoned while trying to do so is impressive). And that’s at room temperature. At seven hundred freaking degrees, fluorine starts to dissociate into monoatomic radicals, thereby losing its gentle and forgiving nature. But that’s how you get it to react with oxygen to make a product that’s worse in pretty much every way.
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 - 03:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/28/w hy-the-supreme-courts-2007-decision-labeling-carb/
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 - 04:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/12/the yre-coming-for-your-steaks-and-hamburgers.php
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 - 04:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/12/04/worlds -leading-coal-producers-shun-un-climate-conference /

22,000 of the elite will travel to Poland to try and get a slice of your pie. 6000 NGO folk will ask/demand/beg for More power, and less freedom.

But not Trump, or Xi.

Trump because he has better things to do than listen to liars lie about how soon the world will end, promise to cut orgone release, then won't, while trying to pretend they are more virtuous.

Xi, because he knows it's a scam, is too busy establishing a computerized total control system, and never intended to keep his word on his last promises, so flunkies can go promise more action they won't take, while laughing at us.

Expect the consumption of steaks, champagne, and caviar will make a noticeable blip in Polish market prices.

The carbon footprint will exceed the average American's by a huge number, most third world countries by the "more in a week than a year" ratio, and more than a lifetime for about a third to a quarter of the planet.

If r you believe the Con, you have to agree the greatest threat to mankind is Global Warming conferences. If you don't, you already knew that.
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Ducbsa
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 - 05:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/28/w hy-the-supreme-courts-2007-decision-labeling-carb/
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Ducbsa
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 - 08:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When you're special, you only emit gobs of good CO2.

https://freebeacon.com/politics/bernie-sanderss-ca mpaign-spent-300k-on-private-plane-travel-in-octob er/
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Ratbuell
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 - 09:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

From the Times article above, concerning rising ocean levels:

Something must be offsetting that expansion, which increases rapidly. I believe the offset comes from evaporation, into the atmosphere, with subsequent precipitation turning into ice over the Antarctic. (The area-ratio oceans/Antarctic is 58.)

}black{well....duh. That would be called WEATHER. Been happening for millenia. But don't dare tell that to a greenie...
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 - 09:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1218/hanson120418 .php3

California, fires, the new dark ages of disease.
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well . . at least Bernie Sanders has good taste in aircraft . . .

https://www.apollojets.com/falcon-8x.html

From a CJ4 . . . that's a BIG step up.
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 - 03:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/12/frenc h_retreat_on_fuel_tax_increase_worries_delegates_t o_climate_change_conference.html

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/12/after _paris_riots_and_green_tax_retreat_warmists_at_yet _another_un_meeting_escalate_rhetoric_warn_of_the_ end_of_civilization.html

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/12/macro n_cracks_and_its_over_for_him.html

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/12/the_b ig_flinch.html

Variations on a theme.

There's a cartoon of Macron in his office with the intercom saying " the yellow vests are building a guillotine on the Champs Elysses".
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 - 11:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Honesty cause they think they've won...


IPCC Official Says Climate Change Is All About Wealth Redistribution
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2018 - 08:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/04/hear tland-institute-takes-on-climate-totalitarians-at- u-n-summit-a-new-religion/

Some years back the late Jerry Pournelle opined that if we had taken the money spent on the War in Afghanistan and Iraq, and instead spent it on solar power satellites, OPEC would be failing, the U.S. would be free from foreign oil needs, we could stop financing Jihad by buying oil from Islamist Theocracies, and we'd have the infrastructure to begin asteroid mining, a new age of nigh unlimited wealth. In a glorious blaze of What If?

Might have worked.

Instead, Fracking allowed an oil boom in the U.S. that would free us from foreign oil, if we want to, and offers some of the wins Pournelle proposed.

The difference is, one never happened and is unlikely unless someone convinces Trump it's a great way to freak out the Media. ( he can't get funding for a wall Congress already made a law to build. No way he could get funding for a Winning environmental strategy. He's no Obama to lie us into multiple unfunded wars illegally. )

The other happened despite Obama's best efforts to enforce eternal poverty.

But, fracking is limited. Yes, we've opened massive new reserves and extended the time until oil is too expensive to burn. But it's still a limited resource.

I know some people theorize that there is an ongoing oil creation process, Dragon's blood or Kobald waste disposal? But there's no understood mechanism, and no one thinks it's a fast enough process to keep up with demand.

Otoh, building the industry to launch and maintain a massive orbital presence with solar sats, even nuclear power sats, would pay off for centuries.

Heinlein, in 1940, before the first atomic reactor was built, foresaw this idea.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowups_Happen

The reactor design he postulated, updated by 70 years of hard science, is now the basis for a credible system to dispose of nuclear waste while generating power from burning it to easily disposed of near term harmless waste.
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