| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
Loud pipes save lives to about the same extent that not walking under ladders saves accidents. Same logic. If there were much merit folks wouldn't wear black riding gear and helmets . . . nearly impossible to see, . . . whilst in their racket making mode. I had one bike . . . the famed Barny . . the first Buell to lap Daytona . . . and it was REALLY loud. Fun . . but, not a great daily rider. I like the new Harley prototypes. And . . therein is the problem. I "like" them . . . .but I don't have that "I have to have one" passion that I did in 1988 when I bought 9 Harleys in a single years and couldn't' get enough of them. That was during the "pay $5k over MSRP and take whatever the dealer can get" rage. Folks were rabid over their Harley-Davidson and it was fervor. Harley enjoyed this for years. Those years are gone and we're left with simply "liking" them. I also like the new Tesla but have no plans to buy one. I've got a finite number of years left and intend to buy things that evoke passion not simply that I like. But . . . it's refreshing to see HD at least starting to act like Buell. I'd love it if they'd bring back just a plain old basic Sportster. | ||
| Rick_a |
The Sportster has been dead to me since 2004. I'm still tempted to do a street replica of one of these...  | ||
| Greg_e |
A street version of that would be cool. | ||
| Crusty |
You mean something like this?  | ||
| Pwnzor |
I like the black one | ||
| Crusty |
Back on topic; here's an interesting interview with H-Ds Marketing Director: http://www.bikeexif.com/harley-streetfighter-livew ire-pan-america | ||
| Fresnobuell |
LOL. Shall I define blind corner for you? A bike laying on the ground on the other side of a blind corner is the same thing as running into a deer. You did run into a deer right? Or was that another person? Maybe if you had loud pipes the deer would have been scared off? Ever think of that during on one of your coffee breaks? (Message edited by fresnobuell on August 02, 2018) | ||
| Ourdee |
Brother's why are we still on this? Oh, never mind. | ||
| 1313 |
Brother's why are we still on this?  or Lack of (factual) data Yeah, I know...kinda  | ||
| Sifo |
Maybe if you had loud pipes the deer would have been scared off? I only wish it worked that way. | ||
| Crusty |
Maybe if you had loud pipes the deer would have been scared off? You haven't been around many deer,have you? | ||
| New12r |
I rode the Livewire 10 years ago, it was fun and I am glad it might actually make it to market, FULL TORQUE at takeoff is a blast. The Pan looks pretty good for a Harley, but I am sure it will be overweight, underpowered and overpriced. I would still like to see how far I can jump one!!! The custom is just not my thing. The streetfighter looks cool as well. As much as I dislike Harley for reasons of betrayal, I dont want to see them fail, so hopefully this will bring around a new era in HD and bring some younger riders to the hobby. | ||
| Hughlysses |
HD humor of the day:  | ||
| Ratbuell |
Maybe if you had loud pipes the deer would have been scared off? You haven't been around many deer,have you? Exactly. Deer are scatter-animals when spooked. Every deer for themselves, "I don't have to be faster than the bear, only faster than you". I have no idea how many were there that night, in a 6' ditch drinking from the stream. I do know that my stock-exhaust S2 was loud enough to spook at least that one, and being a dumb animal it simply ran the wrong direction because it didn't know any better. Spook a deer and it simply goes. Anywhere. Doesn't care, doesn't think about it, just...leaves where it is go to anywhere else, with lots of random directional changes thrown in to get predators off its back. Don't spook them? They simply stand there and watch. I obviously made enough noise to spook one, if not more. The one I hit was a youth; they generally do not travel solo, so I'm betting it was in a group and the rest of the group went a different direction (or lots of different directions) when spooked. But no, I haven't spent any time replaying the accident that could have killed me. Knucklehead. As to the bicycle...don't you think that an organized group of sentient riders, when one of their own falls, would send another back to a known blind corner to warn anyone who would happen to come along, regardless of whether they heard a motorcycle coming, or a car coming, or even birds chirping and dead silence? It's a BLIND corner, and a roadway will likely have traffic on it at some point in the future; any cyclist I know would certainly make a quick journey back to protect the group. Back on topic - hopefully to stay there - I do hold some hope for HD, purely from an American manufacturing standpoint. Sure, they're making some questionable choices closing KC and moving production of various units overseas, and it's upsetting a lot of their customer base, but I hope they're able to get their shit together and keep making vehicles for the domestic market. Diversification can't hurt the product line, and who knows - they may actually have learned something from the Buell mistakes, and the V-rod mistake, and actually try and market these new bikes and the new drivetrain properly. Good competition between builders is good for all riders - because EVERYONE is pushed to make better and better products. And in the end, the winners are....the riders. | ||
| Hughlysses |
It'd be very interesting to know how much turnover there has been in HD management since the end of Buell. Are all, or at least the major naysayers gone? That might be the biggest thing that makes a new range of designs now possible. For that matter, how many engineers are left that worked on Buell designs? Might there be some Buell DNA in the new bikes? They had to have learned some valuable lessons with the production of the Ulysses that can be incorporated into a new ADV bike. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I honestly don't think - and looking at the prototype only supports this - they'd take many if any cues from Buell/XB. THe bike looks to pull from the BMW GS-A, the Yamaha Super Tenere, the Honda Africa Twin, the V-Strom...those (current production) bikes. I'd suspect they're going after current offerings, with styling that's current to match (albeit with an....interesting HD twist on style). Conceptually? Sure. USD forks, good brakes, lighter overall weight (maybe), nicer suspension components...but I doubt many specific Buell items like underslung exhaust or fuel-in-frame would be used. Even though I look around my metric showroom today and see TONS of belly exhausts now, and have to giggle... | ||
| M2x2 |
I like the simplicity of the sportster, less is more. they look good sound good with stock exhaust and have simple upkeep. I ride my 2000 M2 for sport, see attached for sportster use.  | ||
| 86129squids |
Happy dawgie!!!  | ||
| S2t_bama |
I really don't like loud bikes. However, doesn't research support the idea that "loud" colored helmets and jackets reduce accidents? Doesn't prevent them altogether, but does reduce the frequency. Obviously this isn't due to any magical power of the colors other than having a slight advantage in catching the attention of the visually saturated or distracted driver. Doesn't it make sense that a loud sound may offer a similar modest increase in the likelihood of being noticed by a distracted driver? The benefit should diminish with distance more rapidly than the visual cue, so it wouldn't be very effective in the head on vector. However, sound would be much more effective than visual cues for encounters that occur to the side or in blind spots of cars. Honking a loud horn should be even more effective, if the potential collision is detected early enough by the rider. This would be true whether or not the bike has loud pipes, so isn't really an alternative. Having said all that, I still choose to ride a fairly quiet bike, and my jacket and helmet aren't particularly "loud" either. But I don't begrudge the guys with (reasonably) loud bikes the tiny extra margin of safety they may get from them. Especially if they actually wear some real safety gear. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Over the past forty years or so, large areas of conspicuous colors, which contrast with the background, has been repeatedly connected with reduced crash likelihood. Loud exhaust has yet to be connected with reduced risk. | ||
| S2t_bama |
Mark Thanks for reaffirming the studies I was making an analogy to. Regarding the lack of evidence for loud pipes, is that because no study has been done or were results negative? | ||
| Shoggin |
If 'Loud pipes save lives', wouldn't Ambulances and fire trucks run open headers???  | ||
| Rick_a |
If noise don't matter, they can turn off them annoying sireens. My next bike will likely be loud, and hideously so. I really don't care. It's cheap power and a cheap weight savings. | ||
| 86129squids |
I'm continuously entertained by the fokks that have to drive a big-aiss diesel truck equipped with a coffee can exhaust. They sound like someone playing a trombone under water. Maybe one day I'll be that cool. | ||
| Torquehd |
It would be nice if whoever stamped the HD seal of approval on the appearances of these models would have been around a decade earlier to approve other motorcycles that didn't look like traditional Harley's. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Former Buell and EBR engineer Steve Anderson has a new article at Cycle World analyzing HD’s promised electric bikes: https://www.cycleworld.com/harley-davidson-goes-el ectric-hard-way?src=SOC&dom=tw Steve knows his stuff on the technology, physics, economics, and trends with electric vehicles. Interesting read. | ||
| Biffdotorg |
I'm to the point with my Uly, that I am going to strongly consider a Pan America. I am thinking the prototype we see may be a bit off from final product being over a year out. For sure it will not ship with knobby tires, but something similar to the Scorpion Trail tires may be more likely. If the color options get close to Blue or Red like my Uly, I'm in. I hope it's not $20K! I would like it to be sub $15K if at all possible. Power has got to be as good or better than the Uly. That 1250 should put out at least 100hp doesn't it? Oh, I'm so glad winter is coming, as my brain will shift from boats/bikes to Sleds and I can ignore the HD hype engine for the winter. | ||
| Shoggin |
For 'less than $15K' I'd buy {3) very nice Ulys and a bunch of camping gear. and gas and still afford to take a week off to enjoy them.  103hp. | ||
| Ratbuell |
That 1250 should put out at least 100hp doesn't it? There's just no telling yet. DOHC liquid cooled? Should. HD-built and engineered? Might not. Remember, this is the "torque and noise" brand...we saw how well they did with the (externally-developed) Revolution motor in the VRSC... All depends who engineered and tuned it, and what they were allowed to focus on. Chances are if it's based on the Street 500/750...it's a turd. But we've got a couple years to find out. | ||
| Crusty |
Just something to think about; Cycle World did a comparo between the Street 750 and a few other Cruisers in the same displacement area and the Street was equal up to 6 or 7 grand, then it made more power at the higher RPM. That's when the engine is tuned for a milder Cruiser spec. I rode a Street Rod at Daytona. I didn't care for the bike, but it wasn't because of a lack of power. For a 750, it did all right. Also, Cycle World did a 1 on 1 comparison between a Street Rod and an FZ-07. While the FZ was a bit faster, it didn't leave the Street Rod in the dust. When you consider that a V Rod smokes a Scout which also is an OHC liquid cooled V twin of equal displacement, the 1250 engine probably won't be so much of a turd. Motorcycling is about to get more interesting! |
