| Author | Message | ||
     Rick_a |
Just curious as to everyone's thoughts and experiences as it pertains to motorcycle antilock brake systems. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I've ridden bikes with it; never owned one. Situational awareness - at least, thus far - has kept me out of panic-stop situations and I haven't been in a situation yet where it would make a difference, or would have reduced the pucker-factor on escape. My recent deer incident, I never even saw the animal. Never touched the brakes, never thought about it, and even if I had...it wouldn't have made a difference. My general worry about motorcycle ABS is, it's linear-only. Strictly straight-line stuff. If you're sliding sideways...it isn't going to help one whit. Exceptions are starting to appear, in the supersport world and even some high-end adventure bikes, with the advent of the IMU and programming that links it to the brakes and engine controls for traction, wheelie, and launch controls - I sold a Kawasaki H2 SX-SE today with cornering-abs. The IMU works in conjunction with the brakes, and the ECM, to control wheel slip and taking lateral movement into account as well thanks to the six-axis accelerometers in the IMU. On a $22k supercharged sport-tour today; possibly on the 300cc bikes of tomorrow, once the tech becomes cheaper and more accessible. Till then...I keep my head on a swivel and my SA as high as I can. | ||
| Froggy |
I wish my Buells had it, it likely could have prevented the big wreck I had about 9 years ago where I hit a car. I'll be getting it on my next bike for sure should it be possible. | ||
| 86129squids |
ABS on motorcycles has been proven to save lives. What Joe said. | ||
| Madduck |
My Harley ABS was great, really good on roads with iffy traction. My BMW 1200 RT had servo sensors failures twice and damn near killed me. When the sensor tells the computer that the wheel is locked I had zero braking, never good in traffic. Really hated the power brakes aspect, had a flat tire and tried to stop on rumble strip. Really interesting few moments till I let the flat bring me to a stop. Would never get a BMW w/o ability to terminate ABS ever again. | ||
| Rick_a |
Seems most bikes these days have such things than not. According to the IIHS there's 20% fewer collision claims and 31% lower rate of fatal accidents for those with. As far as the bike is concerned it's an extra roughly 10lbs and usually a few hundred dollar option if not standard. The monthly insurance break isn't bad, either. It may be better to have it, and not use it, than to not have it at all. My accident would've been the same outcome with or without. There's been a couple single vehicle accidents in the past that may have been avoided...though the damage to bike and rider were minimal. Traction control and abs are pretty commonplace these days. IMU's and cornering ABS are getting commonplace on the fanciest bikes. My current bikes are almost entirely analog...both products of the 90's. I know earlier ABS systems left much to be desired. They appear to be much more refined these days. | ||
| Sifo |
I had ABS on my Triumph Sprint ST. One day I found myself accelerating through a curve that had a stop sign midway through. Somehow my brain prioritize the curve over the STOP AHEAD sign. I found myself starting a slide with the rear trying to stop before going into cross traffic. I'm really not sure if the ABS stopped the slip, or if my letting off the rear brake did. Came close to a high side as the rear regained traction. I don't think the ABS hurt any, but I'm not sure it saved me either. I think ABS has gotten better since then though. I do think it's a good feature, but never had the guts to test the front. The biggest downside I see is that it complicates the bleeding process if you do your own work on your bikes. Mine would also occasionally throw a code for a bad rear sensor. I eventually tracked that down to being a dirty connection in the socket for the computer. No troubles after that. So sure, it adds cost, complexity, and weight, but can also save your butt. It's usually completely transparent, unless you need it. | ||
| Greg_e |
The Harley units before they fixed them required fluid changes every two years or water could cause the the pumps to lock up. Result was often firm control but no braking, pumping the control did nothing. This failure mode is dangerous. | ||
| 86129squids |
... forgot about those Beemers with power brakes and wonky ABS. They can sure "over-engineer" stuff nowadays. Makes me appreciate the simplicity and honest goodness of my old '77 Beemer. | ||
| Tootal |
The BMW dealer was a friend and let me take a GS home for the weekend. It had ABS but not electric brakes. There was about 4" of gravel piled up along side the road in my neighborhood a couple of weeks after they tar and chip rocked the roads. I rode on top of the gravel and nailed both brakes and it just stopped, period. I was very impressed. I've ridden a lot of dirt and sand so braking without traction is no big deal but still being able to panic stop in deep gravel really made an impression. Then BMW put those goofy electric brakes on them and I was done with BMW. One of the dealership owners told me they weren't that bad and you get used to them. Then he told me about his new Triumph and how he liked the simplicity! | ||
| Teeps |
Me, MV Agusta Turismo Veloce has both traction control and ABS. The only time I feel the ABS doing its thing is when the rear wheel gets light during heavy front wheel braking. MV does permit ABS and TCS to be turned off. So far I just leave them on and in default setting for the particular map I've chosen for the ride. Available maps are: Sport, Touring, Rain and custom. Those features did not affect my purchase decision. I guess rider aids are a bit like Kaopectate: better to have it and not need it; than to need it and not have it!  | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Abs save my ass a few times so I give it the thumbs up.... | ||
| Pwnzor |
I don't like ABS or linked brakes. | ||
| Crusty |
 What he said. And No; I don't think Matthew is stupid. I just agree with him. (Message edited by Crusty on June 17, 2018) | ||
| Rick_a |
Linked brakes suck. ABS I'm on the fence with. I rode a K1200R with servo assisted ABS brakes some years ago. The brakes were great and I don't recall ever activating the ABS. | ||
| Aesquire |
The ABS argument has two aspects. Does the technology work? Once upon a time, the ABS designed for airplanes was tried in trucks.... And banned in th U.S. Because failure mode was no brakes. Late 1940's? Now it works well, depending on manufacturer. Ego. An expert, with good conventional brakes, can stop faster than an idiot with ABS. No one likes to think they are idiots, and everyone imagines they are experts. Wrong to both. This it is somehow unmanly to use ABS, or automatic transmissions, or ask directions. Wrong again. Ok maybe the directions part is hormonal.  | ||
| Aesquire |
Off topic a bit.... Auto vs. Stick. A buddy and I are thinking of building a street legal drag car. He likes the involvement of stick. I understand. And stick doesn't intimidate me. I like the consistency and drive train cushioning of Automatics. Neither one is wrong, it's a matter of style. Maybe I just dislike the potential to look bad? | ||
| Oopezoo |
I've had 2 bikes with ABS.....BMW 1100RT and 1200GS. Every bike before that, and now the S1 have been standard. I put almost 140k miles on that RT and only had the ABS kick in maybe 3-4 times. 2 of those times it 100% saved my ass. One was a lose call with a deer, and the other was when an 18 Wheeler had a blow out in heavy 70mph bumper to bumper traffic. Both times, I just completely grabbed a handful of brake and then steered around the danger. I didn't even think about it, it was all pure reaction. It also used to activate occasionally when hitting wash boarded pavement when slowing for a stop light. I always found that annoying, but I got used to it and knew when it was going to happen. For a fun bike like my S1, I'm not so concerned about it. That being said, I wouldn't be upset if I had it. I think it is a great "just in case" safety feature. For a daily rider, I would never buy another bike without it. | ||
| Rkc00 |
I have it on my new Indian Chief. I will let you know how it is when I saves my life. I hope not to find out. | ||
| Bartimus |
My Buells, and DR650 are the only bikes I own without ABS. My R1200RS has ABS front and rear with traction control, and it seems to work well. My Super Tenere had ABS, linked brakes, and traction control. I used to pull a Bushtec trailer with it across country. I had an idiot pull in front of me in Myrtle beach, and that ABS saved my bacon when I grabbed a handful of front brakes. My KTM 1290SAR has traction control, and ABS. They are both tied into the MSR which works with the lean angle of the bike increasing or decreasing the amount of interference depending on your settings. It is amazing what this bike can do in the dirt, and on the pavement. If it didn't have that stupid chain, I would fall in love with it. | ||
| Rick_a |
Here, on the earliest sportbike application, it proves to improve braking distances for everyone...less for the more experienced riders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0 Tests like that are hard to find, as most are demonstrations by organizations trying to sell ABS as a requirement for all road bikes, as has been done in the U.K. In such tests the non ABS bike is always purposely put into an out of control condition, instead of simply being braked as hard as possible without crashing. | ||
| Shoggin |
I agree with that ^^^^^ ABS is great for anyone who panics, Non-ABS is better for top level riders. As an aside, most bikers think they ride 'better-than-most' so that throws a humility wrench in the decision. | ||
| Rick_a |
One of the best things I did to my S1 was put more brake on the front of it after losing the front end on the brakes more than once. The single brake setup was wooden, lacked feel, and glazed easily, which led to extremely grabby brakes when hot. Basically, they would alternate from wooden and high effort to extremely touchy...which would vary constantly. It would seem counter productive, but going dual rotor had only the consequence of weight and higher steering effort at high speeds, and lack of feel and power under extremely wet conditions...which was easy to adjust to. Under all other conditions they are phenomenal on the street, worked incredibly well at the track, and the pads and rotors last 4x longer than they used to. Speaking of brakes...just yesterday I noticed the rotor of my DR650 motard has been eating at my front brake line under full suspension compression due to the line slipping out from a plastic clamp. It's amazing how something as simple as a three dollar part failing to do its job can kill you if you're not paying attention. I was just thinking to myself the other day as I adjusted an aftermarket shift lever to the proper bend that I'd like to someday find the mythical aftermarket "drop in" part. The front brake on that bike is what I would call adequate. It took a braided line, oversized rotor, and careful pad selection to get it anywhere near modern performance. It would be nice to do a four piston conversion vs the two piston sliding action caliper...but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort. | ||
| Pwnzor |
ABS is just one more thing that can fail. I'll take simple. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Always route brake lines OUTSIDE the forks. I still suspect - even though there was never an inquest, but there was an open recall - that a mis-routed line is what caused my near-fatal wreck in '08. NEVER run a line between the wheel and the fork. Ever. | ||
| Rick_a |
Outside has its downsides...being prone to damage in a wreck, abrading against the fork leg, and a snag hazard when trail riding. When everything is how it's supposed to be...either way works. I'll probably just use a metal clamp from here on out. | ||
| Etennuly |
I am opposed to ABS And TC on any hotrod. In 07 we had a incident on the go cart track at Road America. Me, Riding a new Buell XBTT, when a buddy went down in my path of travel mid corner, at speeds that simply had the bike and me out of options. In order to put the bike down mid corner to avoid running over a friend, I grabbed both brakes hard to force the tires to loose traction, in order to let the bike stop turning through the corner, and to force it down on its side to slide in a straight line off the track, in a safe direction. I doubt I could have avoided running over him had I not been able to break traction to turn wrong and drop the bike intentionally. In my former C5 Corvette I put it into a tight little banked left turn corner i normally let my C4 drift through. When it corrected it stood up mid corner and turned itself right, Damn near ended that car face first into rock embankment. Put help me things into my Denali where I'm likely to go on long trips where I get tired and could use the help. |
