| Author | Message | ||
     Tootal |
The worst thing you can do to a bike with a carburetor is put on an air/fuel ratio gauge. Once you see how pathetic a carb really is you get the urge to go to fuel injection. Due to the Ulysses I now have some experience with fuel maps, etc., and I'm about to put injection on the Harley. Pegasus makes a unit that replaces the carb and looks very interesting. Any of you other Harley owners ever heard any reviews on this unit? I've tried Googling but get very little in actual experience. | ||
| Greg_e |
What year harley? Just wondering if you could buy all the parts for oem injection. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
A H-D mech told me that the early big twin injection systems were buggy. Probably better off going aftermarket. | ||
| Ratbuell |
"Early big twin" = EFI Evo 1340. Kinda like DDFI-I - just not fully baked upon release. The TC88 systems were well-sorted OEMs. Ditto the Sporty EFI when it was released. What is it you're trying to make injected? | ||
| Etennuly |
I know nothing of the systems for bikes. But for the V8 world Holleys new system is amazing from a guy who has been using it. In actuality it has been available for about ten years and was always said to be difficult to tune. This guy says they now have it nailed with its built in scanner monitor. It usually takes ten years on the market to make this stuff out of the package good. | ||
| Torquehd |
I knew a guy who put megasquirt on an old mopar. I believe megasquirt was also what Jon Britten used. You might be money, time, and effort ahead to upgrade to a bike that already has it. And there would likely be more advantages than just getting the FI. For example, having a 6th gear sure is nice. | ||
| Tootal |
Thanks for the replies. I just went back on their site and reread it. I've been fighting the flu all week and my brain was obviously affected. The Pegasus unit is tuned in close loop but run in open loop. There is no O2 sensor so it's no better than a carb when it comes to adjusting for elevation etc. So it's a waste of money. Great concept but not what I was looking for. The bike is a 2002 Road Glide. I have too much invested in the bottom end to think about changing bikes. The carb works but I'm spoiled by the Buell! I'll talk to my engine building buddy and see what other options are out there. If I change out the whole wiring harness I could put a stock unit on but that's a huge job. I also have a Baker 6 speed and their +1 oil pan with a third control link LIKE A BUELL! It really helped the handling even though it's still a big pig! Megasquirt is an option but Greg e explained how the company kind of ripped off all the work of the "community" to make a profit. Not really cool but that's what my racing partner put on the race car even though I didn't want to support them. His dyno guy was used to it so that won him over. Now I'm semi familiar with it. It's similar to ecmspy. If I had comprehended the information I wouldn't have asked! Thanks anyway! | ||
| Greg_e |
There are a couple systems for the 02 that might be useful, some with autotune and wideband o2. | ||
| Torquehd |
I have too much invested... That's the story of every wheeled vehicle I've ever owned! | ||
| Ratbuell |
Does it run ok? Take the a/f gauge off and ride it, if it runs fine...and if it snorts and sneezes, have your dyno guy tune the CV the RIGHT way. I'm just as happy with the performance out of my OEM carb'd tubers as I am with the performance of my XB. I set them up correctly and they're just as rock-solid as the EFI bike is. | ||
| Tootal |
How far from home do you ride your carbed bikes? I travel all over. Rocky Mountain High to both coast. Cold days, hot days, dry days and wet days. No carb can handle that without stopping and rejetting. I've been tuning carbs for 40 years. Our race car had dual side draft Webers and we won a lot of races. When the local BMW independent shop has a carb problem they call me. I can make any carb work for right here right now. As long as the weather is the same and I stay at the same elevation I'm good. If your bike doesn't stutter or fart when it's cold outside then when it warms up you're running rich. | ||
| Tootal |
Gee, can you tell I'm frustrated!? After the trip to April Buell's I gave the bike an oil change. I figured that after chasing a bunch of BadWebber's over the Georgia byways my rings should be fully seated. I drained out the Ronnoco 15-40 and put in some Shaeffer 20-50. It's a semi synthetic that I've been using in my track car for years. I took a ride to a winery about 50 minutes away. I rode the back roads and had a nice ride. I met up with friends but drank only water since I'm still recovering from the flu. On the ride home I started to smell burnt oil. I pulled over and saw oil pouring out of the air cleaner. I also noticed my oil pressure was really high. At start up with cold oil I expect that but it should be warmed up after ten miles. So I kept riding since I had lots of oil pressure. It got better the longer I rode but I tried to keep the rpm's low so the pressure stayed down. I think my Axtell pressure regulator has stuck closed. It still maintains pressure at idle but will climb up to 60 as I rev it. So I get to remove the exhaust AGAIN! It was doing so well too. I still want to perfect the fueling but that's minor compared to not running at all!  | ||
| Greg_e |
Yeah the bypass plunger is stuck or plugged from cam chain tension shoes coming apart. Didn't 02 have the Delphi system installed? It is still an open loop system, but you can buy some good ECMs with autotune like a Daytona Twin Tec. But you would need the entire harness, unless Harley already put everything on there. I might suggest tracking down a harness and EFI parts from a wrecker, might be worth your time. Skip the ECM and go with a replacement like the TwinTec (I think it's the model 4). Not sure if you would need the stator from an EFI bike, but a complete fuel tank with pump/filters might be a good idea. It would be a big project and probably cost well over $2000 Going from 14,000 feet to sea level is going to put that bike in a fit, same as my 05 would be having fueling issues (no o2 sensor for fuel trim) | ||
| Fast1075 |
I actually like the CV Keihin carbs. Not for super performance, but they are quite tunable. As long as you are not talking about the metal slide ones Honda used on the 450 in the 60's and 70's. I do understand the frustration of carbs in varying conditions. I ran 2 strokes for years. My stock of Mikuni VM parts was awesome. I used a weather station for temp, humidity, and barometric pressure, and copious notes to help the tuning. It was common to tweak the jetting 2 or three times in the course of a day at the track as the conditions changed. Still have my Champion plug viewer, and maybe 50 spare new crush washers for 14MM plugs. In my old age, I am 100% in favor of injection. Took a bit to get the XB right, but my current Honda is flawless. | ||
| Tootal |
Fast1075, that's what we did. We had the "magic" box with every jet, emulsion tube and chokes that we needed. We'd check barometric pressure, check our records, and adjust accordingly. We might tweek it throughout the day. Greg e you correct, it was a Delphi and the Daytona Twin Tech is the way to go. I might have to scour fleabay and see what I can find. I don't have to worry about the cam chains, I went with gear drive years ago. My crank was balanced and welded by Darkhorse Crankworks so there is no runnout. I machined the new bushing in the cam plate so it's right on. I don't get any ticking or gear whine, it's sweet! That's why I'd hate to get rid of it. | ||
| Greg_e |
The question is now, is it more cost effective to buy an EFI bike, or build it to EFI with stock (used) parts? I would be tempted to sell it and buy something that was EFI, and then do the Twintec with autotune change to it. If I road more in areas where the altitutde changed a lot, I'd have that TwinTec installed on mine. Can't believe how many companies wouldn't put at least a narrow band o2 for fuel trim in their system. | ||
| Shoggin |
I think its much more an issue with the consumer not willing the trouble and expense to weld in a bung in the exhaust. People are lazy and cheap, ya know  | ||
| Tootal |
Ha! Fortunately my Supertrapp 2:1 has bungs front and rear. In fact the rear has my wide band sensor for my A/F ratio gauge. I've looked for a 2002 FLTRI but people aren't getting rid of them. As I've mentioned before, the 2002 models were the last of the forged cranks and double Timken bearings. The bottom end is so much stronger than the later models. I've got so many other issues to deal with I'm about to just put this thing in storage until I get everything else done. Just maybe, I'll go look at that Indian Springfield again! | ||
| Ratbuell |
FYI we have a factory hold on the 116 big bore Indian kits. Not sure what the issue is, interweb rumor is something with the con rods but nothing from the factory. | ||
| Tootal |
Funny you mention that Joe. My neighbor, who's a big Harley guy yet loves all bikes, was telling me that Indian has been having some quality control issues. I was really hoping they would maintain a little overkill in their design. |
