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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 07:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's what I said earlier. They're trying to build precedent. "We allege, you give up". If A, then B.

The whole impeachment thing gets me too. I didn't like the last democrat president. Did I call for impeachment because of it? No. Because there are LAWS about impeachment. Just because I don't like someone and I'm butt-hurt because they're in office doesn't make them being there an impeachable offense. Just like my not liking my neighbor across the street doesn't make it ok to allege they're trafficking Russian sex slaves.

Oh. Wait. I'm not wearing my Snowflake hat...maybe if I put that on, that train of thought would make sense. "I don't like you, so I'm allowed to publicly ruin you whether it's true or not".
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 07:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bill Clinton is being condemned by Dems who want Hillary out of the way with her pity party.

Ditto on sacrifice of Conyers and Franken. It's to attack Trump. If Trump deserves defending is another question. One woman he publicly called a liar is suing for defamation.

Congress knew about congressional sex abuse. They've paid out millions in taxpayer money to shut women up. Generous termination bonuses. One female congressman is torqued off and complaining. Democrat, so it's planned and coordinated.

If it wasn't for timing, just weeks before an election instead of during the primaries, you might buy allegations on Trump and Moore. As is, it looks like bull.

On a scale of accusations of rape, Bill Clinton, and forcible kissing & groping, Al Franken, Franken deserves a swift kick in the nuts and to not be re-elected. Quitting in shame is out of proportion compared to his colleagues.

It's an untrustworthy mob scene.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 07:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/12/ut ah_monument_was_a_reward_to_a_clinton_donor.html

My sainted Mother refuses to believe Bill Clinton took a massive bribe from Indonesian coal company to create the "park" stopping coal mining in Utah. Foreign donations are illegal, so it didn't happen.

Never mind the folk convicted of illegal donations.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 07:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/12/what_d emocrats_fullcourt_franken_press_really_means.html

Editorial claiming Franken is a 2020 election ploy.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 07:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hmmm....sounds an awful lot like what I said last night....

That's what all this is. It has nothing to do with Al Franken. It has zero to do with morals or sexual harassment. It has everything to do with strategy and power.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 08:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454413/fbi-a gent-peter-strzok-justice-department
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 08:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ratbuell, you can consider your insight as "great minds think alike", or "my grasp of the obvious got online first".

In either case you win. ; ).
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Fb1
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 08:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It has everything to do with strategy and power.

That's a given in DC. The left isn't publicly sacrificing their gods (is "Sid" next?) out of any sense of duty, morals or ethics.

Nor are they sacrificing them willingly. Bravo, Mr. President.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 09:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In either case you win. ; ).


None of us win, till these knuckleheads are all replaced.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 09:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm curious how a class-action "you're chronically ruining our country and your repeated, compulsive actions make me feel bad" suit against the Democrats would go?

It's the theme behind their "must impeach" drive...turn the tables.
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Strokizator
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 10:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As for impeachment, the house voted yesterday 364-58 to "sideline" the issue, which effectively kills any effort by the loonie left to press forward. The Republicans had a put-up-or-shut-up vote and the majority of Democrats admitted calling for impeachment was merely grandstanding.
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So Frankin says he'll be stepping down, but he is completely innocent of what those liars are accusing him of.





Sure... I believe him.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just playing devil's advocate here...who hasn't posed for a gag photo like this?

Did he actually fondle her?

Was she actually sleeping? Or in on the gag at the time, but upon reflection (and the current climate of "sex is bad, nnnkay?") decided to press the issue and go after Franken?

Lots of unanswered questions from just a photo. An obviously-staged photo. That's probably not photoshopped.

Probably.

See? There's that whole "shadow of a doubt" thing again...me? That looks like one of our "first guy to pass out" photos from college. No more...no less. I don't see any actual sexual contact in that photo. Hell, he's not even within six inches of her from what I can see of his left hand, and the size of the shadow under his right hand. Other proposed incidents excepted...this one? Looks like a prank photo to me, nothing more.

Devils advocate.

And that alone would make this hard to prove or disprove in a court of law.
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Macbuell
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 03:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

She was sleeping on a flight back from a USO tour.
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Ebutch
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 03:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Joe:As Dirty harry said: It Worked Didn't It.

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Airbozo
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 03:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I read an article (looking now) that had a couple of people who were witness to the event claim he did touch her. Then she claimed he groped her and forcibly kissed her on stage in front of a bunch of Marines.

This is all I can think of when I hear his voice:

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/daily -affirmation/n10295?snl=1
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Court
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 03:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

We deserve better leaders . . . .

I can tie this to motorcycles . . . imagine if we had a leaded in Washington with the character and moral compass of Erik Buell?
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd vote for him!

She was sleeping on a flight back from a USO tour.


Again, he-said/she-said and court of law proof would be nigh impossible at this point. Not excusing his actions, not saying he did or didn't do it, just making the point that the Democrats seem on a tear about making sure they get definitive, final, conviction-level results...without making any effort whatsoever to prove or disprove things actually happened.

THAT isn't right.

Want to tear someone down? Remove them from office? Smear them all over the press and all over the nation?

PROVE IT.

Anything else is hearsay.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 04:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

...and to take it a step further (along Court's comment about needing better leaders)...we as a populace need to start MAKING them prove these things.

Folks shouldn't get away with sexual predation.

Folks ALSO shouldn't get away with being able to fabricate events (or simply make unsubstantiated claims) that ruin peoples careers and lives.

But...that's exactly what they're doing - and WE'RE LETTING THEM.
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Ebutch
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 05:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It worked didn't it!OK to lie in a race.Lying in dems does come Naturale.





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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 06:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just playing devil's advocate here...who hasn't posed for a gag photo like this?

Did he actually fondle her?

Was she actually sleeping? Or in on the gag at the time, but upon reflection (and the current climate of "sex is bad, nnnkay?") decided to press the issue and go after Franken?

Lots of unanswered questions from just a photo. An obviously-staged photo. That's probably not photoshopped.

Probably.

See? There's that whole "shadow of a doubt" thing again...me? That looks like one of our "first guy to pass out" photos from college. No more...no less. I don't see any actual sexual contact in that photo. Hell, he's not even within six inches of her from what I can see of his left hand, and the size of the shadow under his right hand. Other proposed incidents excepted...this one? Looks like a prank photo to me, nothing more.

Devils advocate.

And that alone would make this hard to prove or disprove in a court of law.


You're arguing that there was no sexual assault. I would probably agree with you there. The sexual harassment, by pretty much any HR manual I've had to sign saying I've read it, and there have been many, is painfully clear. That's plenty to get you fired immediately, in just about any professional office in the US these days.

Note that he was pretty much drummed out of office by his own party. I say good riddance, and it's about freaking time the Dems stop circling the wagons around their own debauchery, while putting pressure on Repubs who are guilty of far less. The only reason Franken was even in office was due to profound election fraud.

Those who were trying to excuse the photo as comedy, are pretty warped IMO. At what point is it comical to pretend you are sexually assaulting someone who is unconscious? Even if she were in on it, pretending to be asleep, which wasn't the case, it's a serious lapse in judgement if you ever want to be taken seriously. Thankfully, his own party decided this was the last straw, recognizing that he was completely toxic to their party. A decision that I agree with wholeheartedly. It's a very small step in the right direction for the Dems.

It was very disingenuous in his speech today to point the finger at Trump for his taped story of "sexual assault". Bad locker room talk to be sure. He didn't know he was being taped. Here's the important part though... There is no actual victim. The whole thing, to the best of our knowledge, was nothing more than private locker room talk. This is the best the Dems have though, as their crusade de jour is snaring members of their own party, and their biggest supporters like flies on a turd. The great news in all of this, is that this is actually a worth while issue. Time to stop paying off victims of our government with a secret slush fund and sealing the records on the perpetrators of these crimes. Open the books on this and let's see where the crap lies. Drain that damned swamp!
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 06:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"At what point is it comical to pretend you are sexually assaulting someone who is unconscious?"

We used to think it was pretty funny, especially when they're passed out in the shop (Navy. I guess, Old Navy. Probably not tolerated in the New Navy.)

Needless to say, I will never run for public office.
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

We used to think it was pretty funny, especially when they're passed out in the shop (Navy. I guess, Old Navy. Probably not tolerated in the New Navy.)

Well, unfortunately, it wasn't that long ago that we were being told that actual sexual assault on women was just fine from our leaders, just as long as you were getting the results you wanted. That was the defense for BJ Clinton, and the foundation for the secret slush fund that has been used to pay off victims of our congress critters. The pendulum sure has taken a swing. I'll be curious how much whiplash we are likely to experience when the Dems suddenly find it isn't expedient to support victims of these predators anymore.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 07:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd expect a female spokesperson to rant about the unfairness of unsupported allegations and how Justice is Perverted without Due Process. Then they go right back to screwing the interns without worries. ( they still are screwing everyone, but they're a tiny bit concerned, temporarily )

Listening to NPR about the Jerusalem announcement. Laughing my rear off. They are complaining that Trump should have used the decision to "make a deal" since he's the "deal guy" and make a deal with Israel to not build houses on conquered land in the West Bank. Or use the announcement to Make A Deal with the PLA.

What had me laughing was that IF Trump tried to use this to make a deal they'd try and crucify him for That.

There is no winning with compromise with leftists, or the Palestinian Authority. So I don't see what we could do to make them happy that isn't a losing proposition for all involved.

The other interesting tidbit was a Palestine expert ( missed his name and qualifications, but he had an accent from the region ) who predicted tomorrow, Friday the 8th, would have much more violence because it's the day everyone goes to the Mosque and gets organized in groups to go riot. Apparently it's a known weekly cycle. I mean, we're all together, and the sermon pointed at our enemies, so why not go get some camera time?
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Tootal
Posted on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 08:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How can you stand to listen to NPR!! I do work for a local micro brewery once in a while and have my own micro shop there. The other maintenance guys listen to NPR all day. After listening to all that CRAP I don't know why they just don't go home and shoot themselves!! If the world was as bad as NPR says then I would understand the hatred and rage that they have. They are filled with lies that they believe is gospel! They leave at around 2 o'clock and the first thing I do is turn that crap off!
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 09:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You're arguing that there was no sexual assault.

Incorrect.

I'm arguing that there's no convincing evidence either way. This whole situation - and the whole climate of prosecution (persecution?) these days - is becoming less and less based on proof/fact/beyond a shadow of a doubt, and is more and more based on hearsay and allegations.

THAT is the problem here, not the actions that Franken, et al, did or did not take. This isn't about the problems; it's about the PROCESS of naming someone "guilty".
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Sifo
Posted on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

But in the case of Franken, the sexual embarrassment is proven in a photo that has not been questioned, even by Franken. It's only been excused as coming from when he was a comedian.

I do agree that when allegations, usually from decades ago, are brought up with nothing to back them, it's problematic. It's a tactic of the left. It's biting them in the ass right now. Don't worry, it will be forgotten faster than you can imagine.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 11:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I agree on the sexual EMBARRASSMENT in the photo. But as I said above...we've all heard of (or been in) photos like that before. It's called "college", and ultimately "poor taste"...but certainly not anything I'd consider prosecutable, at least not to this extent.

Again - not condoning or sentencing Franken, just the process. These days, "he said she said" equals a conviction. And that's not what our legal system is based on.

I do agree that when allegations, usually from decades ago, are brought up with nothing to back them, it's problematic.

But the issue is, that's what these people (Dems, and the press, and the public (liberal public, anyway) at large, are using to CONVICT these people in the court of public opinion. Not proof, allegations. THAT is the problem here, not the alleged actions of a has-been actor from decades ago.
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Sifo
Posted on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

But the issue is, that's what these people (Dems, and the press, and the public (liberal public, anyway) at large, are using to CONVICT these people in the court of public opinion. Not proof, allegations. THAT is the problem here, not the alleged actions of a has-been actor from decades ago.

I know. It's almost as if they don't believe in our Constitution.
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Airbozo
Posted on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"How can you stand to listen to NPR!!"

In order to understand the enemy, you must know what they believe and why.

I watch/listen to just about every news channel for this very reason.
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