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Ratbuell
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hi Guys and gals - I'm going to post this on the Cummins forum when I get home but I can't remember my password at the moment (it's autosaved at home). Odd thing going on with my 01 Cummins Dodge and figured I'd ask here...just in case : )

2001 Dodge Cummins 5.9 24v, 6 speed. Good batteries (18 months old). Good charging system. Starts and runs fine when it's warm out. When it's cold...it clicks.

Sometimes, I bump the key a bunch of times and it'll start up for me. Full speed crank, not slow like a dead battery would behave.

Sometimes like last night, I have to put a set of jumpers on it for about five seconds (long enough to walk from the battery to the ignition key), and it'l fire right up full speed crank.

Again - ZERO issues when it's above freezing. And I have full lights, stereo, nothing is dim, nothing is slow even when it's acting up. It just does...NOTHING, until it decides "OK, I'm done having fun with him" and it starts like nothing is going on.

Thoughts? Is there an achilles' heel in the starter system that I can go to, or am I looking at a couple days of chasing wires?
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wet solenoid freezing?
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Ratbuell
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Been doing it for the last 2 years. Warmed up last spring, started behaving, I lost interest in chasing an electrical demon...and now it's acting up again with the advent of winter weather.

Forgot to mention, there's a third scenario when it acts up. I can either bump-bump-bump till it starts...or sometimes I can hold the key in the start position, and after about five seconds (the time varies, but it's a few seconds at least), and something will finally kick in and it'll go full-speed crank and fire right up.
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Teeps
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Refer to:
Al Lighton's rule 1.
It's always the grounds until proven otherwise.

Could also be failing contacts in the ig switch or solenoid.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-powertra in/381322-wont-start-just-clicks.html post 5
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bad starter relay ground. Could be the relay itself but it sounds like grounding issues that would only show up under heavy load. Check engine ground and main battery ground too.

And by check I mean unbolt scuff/sand and clean.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Will do, thanks.

I replaced the starter a few years back as well (it would run on); I'll verify none of those contacts have come loose.

Now, where'd I leave my box of star washers....
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Shoggin
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You could move to a warmer place?



If it clicks and does nothing, theres pretty much only one circuit to check.

Yes it's the starter solenoid circuit, but more specifically the High amp side. It's pretty dead simple though, so no worries.
.
The clicking means its getting signal from the key and activating ok so no worries on the low amp side.

The high amp side consists of the main battery hot wire to the solenoid and the main (big) wire from the solenoid to the starter. This includes the battery terminals, contacts in the solenoid and the brushes in the starter.

If the wiring is not corroded, you very possibly need a solenoid and/or a starter.

If you don't want to blindly replace parts with a guess, I would buy a beer, get a friend, and when it just clicks use a test light on the battery side of the solenoid to make sure you have voltage (all the time, the key doesn't have to be on), then when you turn the key all the way to crank and the solonoid clicks you either:

1) Lose voltage at the battery side (and have a bad/ corroded connection to the batteries on that wire)

2) Have voltage on the battery side and have no voltage to the starter side of the solenoid (sticking or bad contacts in the solonoid/replace)

3) Have voltage on both sides of the solonoid (replace the starter/ brushes or armature is bad)
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 06:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Could be worse. We had a Chevy van where the flywheel lost a few teeth. Four states away in a blizzard. Doing a car show in Boston for work.

Naturally each attempt to start ended with the starter gear on the dead spot. So I'd crawl under the van, & turn the engine by hand with the flywheel, then yell up for another try. ( we removed the cover first time. )

Every time we stopped to eat or refuel for two days.
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Etennuly
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tow that thing to Florida for the next five months.
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Maddiemsu
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had a similar thing going on with my Duramax. Try replacing the positive battery cables. That solved mine.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No money to be made in FL, Vern...I'd have a free roof over my head, but that wouldn't pay for the roof I have in MD (and I don't really want to live with Mom again lol).

Doing some poking around on the Cummins forums, it appears there IS an achilles' heel here. Starter solenoid contacts are undersized.

Thinking back...I replaced my starter a couple years ago because it wasn't disengaging after the engine started. I don't remember it doing this click-thing before the replacement. Of course, I replaced it midsummer so no immediate "hey, waitaminute..." that would have resulted in an immediate warranty exchange. I do remember at the time I was shy about using a NAPA starter...but it was about half the money of an OEM.

That said...now it hates cold weather. Reading the forums, the solenoid contacts can be (usually are) the issue, and the writeup here confirms it:

https://www.genosgarage.com/product/lb-r90ss/engin e-rebuild-kits-3

I trust Geno's; have gotten a ton of stuff from there in the past. And for $20...it's worth a shot to take a swing at a common issue!
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Crusty
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Let us know if it does the trick; please.
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Mr_grumpy
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2017 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had exactly the same thing on the wife's 06 Hemi powered Grand cherokee about a year after I'd changed the starter, turned out to be the connection onto the solenoid. It's been ok since but has now been replaced with a Kia Sorento which makes the Jeep look rubbish in nearly every way.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2017 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Still waiting on the part to arrive; hopefully this weekend I can do the swap, and hopefully it'll do the trick. I need my truck for gigs! Small shows, I can fit my system in the turbo minivan...but if I do anything bigger, I need the trailer. Mini ain't gonna pull 26'!!

I will say I love my '14 Grand Cherokee. Light years ahead of the older models. I've had two problems with it - total - in 40k miles. First, the EGR cooler had a small leak and it kept tripping the exhaust regen process (I have the 3.0 VM Motori diesel). Warranty replaced the cooler, no issues since. And, the wheels have had a clearcoat lift issue. Hard corners (lugnut holes; valve stem holes; center cap holes - anywhere there's a 90 degree corner from the face down into the hole). The clear was too thin on those corners and water got under it and started turning the aluminum white. Looks like shit. Just got a text from my buddy at Jeep parts - they're ordering four brand new wheels for me. WOO-HOO!!! Now I'm gonna cross my fingers they send Parts a "scrap" notice for my take-offs...so I end up with a winter set as well as a "nice" set
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2017 - 10:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So far, so good.

Took longer to rubiks-cube the starter out of the truck, than it did to exchange the contacts and plunger.

Took it to Lowe's to get some building supplies, started perfectly in the garage. Started perfectly after Lowe's. Started perfectly after a stop at Wally World.

Baptism by fire tonight - instead of the garage (insulated and hovering around 50 degrees), I'm purposely parking it in the driveway. Currently, 36 degrees (10pm). We'll see how she does in the morning.

Fingers crossed that 20 bucks took care of it!!
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Ourdee
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2017 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

20 bucks will fix anything. =]

: popcorn:
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Etennuly
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2017 - 11:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Most vehicle electrical problems show up during seasonal changes in my experience. Expansion and contraction.

If your contact points were under sized to begin with, cold makes them even smaller,therefore air gaps get larger. The opposite can happen when cold shifts to warm.

I generally fix more ground wire issues when temperatures drop. The mechanical contacts can loosen as the metal contracts

But actual wire failures seem more frequent in hot weather. Heat expands wires and softens insulation coatings.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2017 - 08:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

FIXED!!

Sat out overnight in 34 degree weather. Left the block heater disconnected. Did not use the battery tender. Went out, key-on, let the "wait" light do its thing...fired right up, first crank.

I love when a $26 fix takes care of a major issue!!
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Crusty
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2017 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Cool! Congratulations!
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