| Author | Message | ||
     Macbuell |
Aesquire, I'm not an expert on tax refunds but how can they get a refund without a valid SS#. And there is no doubt they are getting benefits and leaching off the system. | ||
| Aesquire |
SS# of the dead. The IRS and SS are different paperwork trails. The right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. See any article on how to create a false identity. Not going to waste time here telling you how to break the law. 'Cause, Illegal, right? The reason your friend took so long to get here is the law "written" by Ted Kennedy ( staff & lobbyists ) & still the law of the land, is a racist set of rules to exclude Europeans and others considered undesirable by the folk that wrote them. Immigration laws are always prejudiced in one way or another. Usually making it hard for hereditary enemies from coming to your country, and changing over time to reflect the prejudices or hard experience of previous waves of immigrants. This isn't a U.S. only problem. Speeches on the subject are on record from Athens before the Peloponnesian war. The arguments would be very familiar. "Why should we take those people when they have a different culture and won't......". We haven't even touched on the subject of the money sent home by illegal immigrants and how it props up failed states. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://victorhanson.com/wordpress/?s=Immigration&s ubmit=Search Here are much better informed opinions. | ||
| Strokizator |
Read his book "Mexifornia". They're not all "hard working, good people". They're from a 3rd world country and California looks more like a slum every year. The cost to society in services alone is nowhere near offset by the supposed benefit they bring from doing "jobs that Americans won't do". Uncontrolled immigration was the #1 reason I left a little over 2 years ago. | ||
| Ratbuell |
"doing jobs American's won't do for three dollars an hour" Fixed it for ya. Americans will do the jobs...but Americans want decent wages in order to do them. Y'know...to help offset all those TAX things we've been talking about. If the illegals are so "hardworking"...why the hell don't they "work hard" on becoming citizens? Oh. Wait. Because nobody makes them. And because they've figured out how to have their cake and eat it too. Benefits without expense, or responsibility. | ||
| Aesquire |
Don't over generalize. There are plenty of hard working illegal trespassers who just want a better life and work hard here, since there is no work, hope, and precious little freedom where they come from. And there are the welfare moochers and criminals who hit & run, steal, rape & murder. After all,if they WERE all lazy useless folk like Ann Coulter seems to think, there wouldn't be any reason for Google and Armour, and all those rich people who want servants, to want them here. ( being cheap, easy to blackmail, and unlikely to threaten THEIR jobs makes them prime employees for the evil rich ) I'll leave the party politics at the observation that if the folk pouring in through the Mexican border habitually voted Republican, the Border would look like the Iron Curtain with mines, machine gun bunkers, and artillery. Separating the good from the bad is not an easy task. It's complicated that we have adults and children that were hauled at great risk, to freedom as babies or toddlers, don't speak the language of their Parent's native land, consider themselves American, and it would be really heartless to send them to a foreign land where they can't even talk to tho police, or to drag their parents away, abandoning them to the System, which is a bit better than Charles Dickens' time, but not by as much as we'd like. I don't have an easy answer on that one. And the obvious way to pay for this would take violence, since the politicians who are responsible aren't going to pay for anything, ever, if they have anything to say about it. ( and they're all very rich, for some odd reason, and have armed guards ) | ||
| Torquehd |
Every time we find an illegal who would be proud to be an American, let's make them exchange citizenship with a current citizen who isn't proud to be an American. And deport THEM to antarctica with a case of lemons or hot sauce or whatever. | ||
| Redra65k |
trade a liberal for a possible liberal .... sounds good to me torquehd | ||
| Aesquire |
Torquehd, I've changed my mind on Antarctica. Two reasons, international treaties might prohibit it, and shipping costs. I'm back to my old plan using an Aleutian island and covering it with cameras for pay per view. Color coded flashing collars for the Brown Bears and Timber Wolves. ( the lack of land based predators also is a factor with Antarctica ) I'm also pushing for Mesozoic Park status, as we bring back species like Dire Wolf and Saber Tooth Tiger. I'm working on the New Mexico Border Run version. The Congressmen are dropped off 50 miles north of the border and only have to talk their way into Mexico without documents. After they get past the Terror Birds and Utahraptors. Technically it wouldn't even be a deportation, so the left can claim a win. Those left to be chosen for the next Survivor-Congress season. ( I count seasons like the BBC does Dr. Who, until the current crop of companions is killed off ) ; ) | ||
| Torquehd |
Most of the Aleutians are wildlife sanctuaries IIRC; they're beautiful and teeming with bird, fish, and seal life. And most of them are America; I believe one of the islands belongs to Russia. I'm not willing to give them such a beautiful place. Austere though it may be. | ||
| Aesquire |
Give them? Oh, forgive me. I was talking about my plan to reduce the Federal debt. Aleutian island, multiple cameras. Since Survivor and The Hunger Games are so popular, I thought that we already have a selection process like the Hungar Games with Congress. Two from each "district"? They get dropped off on the island under 24/7 drone surveillance, live on pay per view. ( the debt reducing portion of the plan ) perhaps betting in Vegas, again with a cut to the National debt. Of course we would be sure the native animals were well fed.  The Timber Wolves and Brown Bears, at the least. Some native lions re-introduced as an ongoing Park program. Other species as they are brought back by genetic research. I think Aurochs would do well on the island but I'd want to check beforehand. Aurochs are the first recovered extinct species brought back that I know of. A clever back breeding program. Aurochs are the ancestors to cows and you can think of them as mammoth contemporary, hairy Longhorns on steroids with an attitude problem. ( Do Not Tip ) Lets just say you don't want to try and run with them. | ||
| Aesquire |
I forgot to mention that since much of Congress has issues with their subjects possessing weapons, we would of course be sure they had no guns or knives on the island. Must protect the wildlife. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I agree, they're not all shiftless and lazy moochers. They're not all criminals. My point is...where's the motivation for the actual hard workers, to complete the citizenship process? Why do we, as Americans, ENCOURAGE them to stay illegal? Not "we" as in you and me, but "we" as in liberals? Think about it. If you were an illegal, but one of the ones who's a genuine hard worker looking for a new, better life...and you had the ability to work hard...and you knew you should double-down and work hardER and get your citizenship on top of everything else you were working for, but the liberal media and these liberal cities (and now a whole STATE) told you "eh....don't bother, we'll protect you"... Why would you put out the effort, if it "doesn't matter" one way or the other? I guess being able to weed out the honest hard workers, from the actual criminals, makes too much sense for the bleeding hearts to understand. I do like the one-for-one idea though! | ||
| Oddball |
The honest hard workers would have gone through the process and become legal citizens in the first place. There should be no reward for being here illegally. All illegals found here should never be able to become a citizen or ever to return. There has to be a consequence. | ||
| Ebutch |
demoRats are the law-breakers(encouragers) and should be imprisoned and dreamers deported. | ||
| Torquehd |
So what happens if I get caught carrying concealed with no license? Does the local courthouse go ahead and issue me a license because I'm obviously a responsible citizen, paying my taxes, doing the right thing? Or do I have to face the consequences of my actions, and likely never be able to carry? I agree that, by issuing perpetual law-breakers (another term for that is, criminals) citizenship, we are rewarding bad behavior. It's like giving your dog a treat when he pisses on the carpet. If you want others to continue breaking the law, then reward the ones who are currently doing so. Unfortunately, there's not an easy answer. People aren't dogs and you can't rub their nose in poop. Well, you can, but it makes for bad media coverage. I know that there are both criminal criminals and productive criminals here in the US. Some of them would be beneficial members of society if we gave them a get-out-of-jail-free card. Some would not. But either way around it, they broke the law. They made the choice, "yes, i'm going to break the law, and hope that I don't get caught. I know it's illegal, I just don't care because rule of law doesn't matter to me". Maybe the answer is... leave the US or pay a 200,000 USD fine up front, followed by a 50,000 USD fine each year until your citizenship gets approved (and you're at the back of the line. Mandatory 10 year miminum?). Isn't that congress's answer to everything? Follow the law or we fine the crap out of you? And in keeping with socialist doctrine, we won't call it a fine, we'll call it a tax. And if you breach your payments, we throw you out of a C17 over Mexico. Don't worry, you'll have a parachute. | ||
| Ourdee |
A reserve chute only. | ||
| Torquehd |
DOD has and uses disposable parachutes. They're pretty much tarps with nylon rope. Not sure what the payload is but they can drop four 55 gallon drums of fuel per. Edit: That's over 1700 pounds per chute, but no doubt they fall faster than 17-21 feet per second like the MC-6 static line parachute (personnel chute). So realistically you can probably drop 4 or 5 people per chute. Or more if you put them in a box lined with energy absorbing material (multiple layers of thick cardboard). (Message edited by torquehd on October 09, 2017) | ||
| Redra65k |
So why isn’t it an easy answer again? (Message edited by Redra65k on October 09, 2017) | ||
| Torquehd |
Because then only the wealthy get to stay, and the easiest way to be a wealthy criminal is to engage in illegal activity. | ||
| Aesquire |
The notion of making paying a fine to then be allowed to break the law is silly and illogical. I come to your house, break in and steal your property, nothing big, a guitar and a video game. I want to keep doing that so I sell the guitar etc. Pay a fee to someone else, And now am allowed to take more of your stuff? That's a crime organization, not a government. I pay Mr. Baritone a fee to the right to rob your house. Then the other silly part. Demand a fee from poor people who can't pay. Do YOU live a lifestyle that lets you cough up $200,000 to keep your job? Sure, over a few years you pay that in taxes. Personally I pay more than that over ten years. The average person in my State does. Do you know anyone who has saved half his total pay for a decade to have the $200k plus in savings? ( I couldn't, the government takes more than half, & I foolishly spent the rest on living ) You expect Raul on the chicken plucking machines at Tyson to have $200k to spare? | ||
| Macbuell |
I hope everyone realizes that the illegal alien problem in the US is one of those problems that our elected Reps will talk about over and over again but will never actually do anything on. They have no intention of fixing the problem because of all the economic and financial dependencies involved. Now, increasing border security, so no or less NEW illegals can enter is something that I think we can get some movement on. Which is why you are actually seeing and hearing language regarding border security and the Wall tied to DACA. Hopefully, if you fix the border security issue the other issue is fixed over time assuming the death rate of illegals exceeds those entering the country illegally. | ||
| Torquehd |
The notion of making paying a fine to then be allowed to break the law is silly and illogical. I don't understand your statement. | ||
| Aesquire |
I agree. The bribes from the exploitation of illegals are huge. Both parties get those bribes because smart people cover the bases. ( an argument I've had for years with my union ) I'm more skeptical on the border enforcement issue. We've been here before. "Give us amnesty and in return we'll enforce the law on the border" say the politicians. But they never do. They lied. They lie today. How stupid can we be? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Point taken on the "already breaking the law because they're here". But perhaps that could be the token "we'll give you this" in order to get the border protection backing. In other words - if you're here as of X date and gainfully employed, with zero criminal past either here or back home, AND you can pass all citizenship exams and checks by Y date, you can stay as a Citizen. In exchange for that, we get the wall. If you weren't here, gainfully working, by X date; if you DO have a criminal history; if you DON'T pass all exams and checks by Y date...GTFO, and STAY out. And...as of X date...our borders are locked. Want in? Pass the tests FIRST. | ||
| Aesquire |
How about? Enforce the border and deport the ones who have committed crimes. Violent crime and felonies. THEN we can discuss amnesty by any name you want to lie with? Because giving them what they want now in exchange for a promise they already broke multiple times before, isn't just stupid, It's self abuse. People who don't pay their tab better pay cash up front or I'm just enabling them to rip me off again. Pay me first. They're dishonest. Screw myself again? Why? | ||
| Macbuell |
Agreed Aesquire. Border security HAS to come first. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Fair points all. Personally? I'd drive the bus full of em back to Mexico, over and over. I was thinking strictly from the "how can we get the libtards to agree" point of view. Maybe a wall separating California from the other 47....? And let em figure their OWN funding and defense in order to exist... | ||
| Oddball |
Don't forget to give the colorado river to arizona/nevada. Cali can build desalinization plants. | ||
| Airbozo |
I am glad they are passing these laws in California. Increases the chance of the people getting pissed off and electing a conservative. Not a Hollywood star pretending to be a conservative, but a real one. I've heard of rumblings of a lawsuit to challenge the funding of the legal protections for illegal immigrants here in CA. Seems the argument is related to using state funds to aid and abet criminal activity by encouraging illegals to flock to the state for protection. |
