| Author | Message | ||
     Cyclonedon |
I agree with Crusty! I never say a motorcycle is ugly until I've actually seen and sit on one! When the Ulysses first came out I thought it was a ugly looking motorcycle, then I saw one in person and thought it looked ok, once I sit on one it felt even better and once I test rode one, I was hooked! Good thing I didn't let my first impression influence my decision on it because I feel it's the best motorcycle ever made for my riding! As far as the new Harley Street Rod, I think it's a positive move in the right direction for Harley. Now they can possibly pick up some of that import motorcycle business there losing to new riders learning to ride. | ||
| 86129squids |
Gotta mention that these new Street Rods are being used in the MSF programs now, replacing the fleets of Blasts from the past... I think these new rigs (with SERIOUS crash bars!) are a big improvement. If HD can use these for greater market penetration at the low dollar price points, more power to them. I'd be very curious to see how they compete/compare to the metrics. We're all still butt-hurt over what HD and Wandell did back in '09, but that spilt milk dried up and blew away a long time ago.  | ||
| Henshao |
My first reaction to it was, what the hell is a Street Rod and what makes it different from a Dyna Fat Bob Screaming Eagle Peace Officer Astro Glide Special Editionster? Harley could stand to revamp their naming traditions IMO | ||
| Crusty |
The Street and the Street Rod are different motorcycles. Go to Harley's website and do a comparison, or read the Cycle World article and there are a whole lot of differences. The Street does nothing for me, at all; however, the Street Rod piques my interest a bit. Sort of like an 883 with short suspension vs an XR1200X. (Message edited by Crusty on March 12, 2017) | ||
| Fb1 |
I'll just let me consumer dollars speak by NOT buying one as it doesn't interest me. Since you are so supportive of it, when will you be buying one?...Last I 'heard', the Dead Short - sorry, I meant the Live Wire - electric bike should appear as a 2020 model. So that leaves 47 more coming to divide BadWeB as much as another ••••••• political thread! So, is it the shitting-on-a-Harley-that-no-one-here-has-even-rid den pushback from me and Crusty, or is it the "••••••• -political-threads-are-dividing-BadWeb (!)" that's got you so wound up? Both?  Again I ask: Was that directed at ME? | ||
| Fb1 |
Harley could stand to revamp their naming traditions IMO. Stupid Harley; what a bunch of maroons. Makes one wonder how they've managed to stay in business for 114 years... | ||
| Henshao |
Edit: I have decided not to be needlessly combative today. (Message edited by henshao on March 12, 2017) | ||
| 86129squids |
Dang- I've been so long away from my old job, I forgot all the FLHTCUIDILLIGAFXXX terminlology. I must admit I get a good laugh out of all their marketing. I wasn't the greatest at skool, but I love good language, prose, poetry, and such. Most marketing lingo amuses me to no end. Guess I oughta head back to the dealership and study the bikes, and mebbe punk some of the newbie sales guys...  | ||
| Fast1075 |
Best looking wheels on a Harley, ever. And 17" no less. Win, win. | ||
| 1313 |
Again I ask: Was that directed at ME? I'll have to admit, when it written it pretty much was. But since it was posted I thought about it some and I generally find it a preposterous question. In fact, it's nearly as preposterous as stating that people are 'shitting on a bike' when they are actually just openly stating their opinions about said bike. But hey, that just may be MY OPINION on that... This 'coulda-been' Harley would likely get some more favorable opinions on here, I'd reckon. | ||
| Fb1 |
Well, I'd go back through the thread and cut and paste all the general "FU Harley" stuff that was written and collate it into this post for your review, but it'd be a colossal waste of my time. It's there; it almost always is anytime Harley-Davidson is mentioned in these hallowed pages. I suspect Crusty spoke up because he rides a Harley, but considers BadWeB his home. I spoke up for the same reason. (Hey, you ride a Harley, right? Have you ever felt like, say, setting it on fire and sending a video of the inferno to H-D corporate to show 'em how you really feel? I don't know how you can even stand to have that thing in your garage. Seriously, a giant bonfire, dude - it'd make for a great thread here on BWB. I'll bring the hot dogs.) I used to defend Buell, religiously, back in the day, when it seemed like everybody on the internet was a frikkin' expert on 'em and bashed 'em for being...get this... Ugly. Heavy. Slow. Expensive. Invariably, not only had these 'net ninjas typically never ridden a Buell, most of 'em had never even SEEN one. I get it: Harley-Davidson is pretty universally despised by the good people of BadWeB, so H-D's new bike gets a good gang-raping as a result. My opinion is some of the posters on this thread talked out their asses...and what came out smelled like shit. For what it's worth, Crusty seems to be in agreement; I consider myself in good company in that regard. Adios. | ||
| Henshao |
Ok, let's do a line-up of heavier, slower, more expensive bikes than Harleys. Goldwing, I guess. Except those are actually kind of fast. | ||
| Crusty |
Ok, let's do a line-up of heavier, slower, more expensive bikes than Harleys. Pick nearly any of the Japanese clones. | ||
| Tootal |
I used to despise Harley's. The AMF ones. Vibrating, oil leaking POS! They were just going though the motions making the same old POS! Then the workers bought it away. AMF had already started working with Porsche to build the Evo motor. The new ownership started making changes. I rode my BMW to Milwaukee with my friends to the 85th birthday of HD. At the city limits we stopped to look at a map and get our bearings. When leaving my BMW would not go. I had one friend still behind me and he stopped. We called a tow truck and took it to the BMW dealer and I chained it to their front porch since they were closed. I got on the back of my friends FLT with my saddlebags on each knee and we got to the hotel. The next day we took a tour of HD and I was impressed with the operation. So many AMERICAN MADE robots making parts and the quality was vastly improved! I bought an 89 Heritage Softtail Classic a year later. My BMW? It had spun the splines on the drive shaft 17 days before the end of the 3 year warranty! $998.00 parts and labor FREE! Harley continued to improve the bikes even with some glitches with the Twin Cam. IMO, the 2002 model was the best they made since the following year they started down that road that cheapened the engine starting with the crank shaft. When the saviors of the company started retiring they hired the JERK that closed Buell. He is now gone and I hope they get back on track and improve quality once again. I don't hate Harley, I just hated the JERK that made really stupid decisions! | ||
| Henshao |
This one's not that bad. Harley doesn't list horsepower figures so I can't tell if it has the guts of my Cyclone but it's only 100lbs heavier.  | ||
| Tootal |
I'm starting to realize the demise of quality in American made products has a lot to do with the stock exchanges. It seems that family run businesses only answer to themselves and they care about quality and their employees. This makes for a solid company with slow growth. Then enter the stock exchange. They sell shares of their company to stock holders and before you know it they are slaves to them. We must make more profit to keep our stock price growing because the stock holders want it. How do you do that in a slow economy? You start going outside the U.S. for parts. YOu engineer cheaper parts and fewer parts. You stop using the exotic materials and go back to cheap and heavy. All in the name of profit which is now more important than quality. I've seen many businesses fall into this trap and it's just a shame. Quick growth usually ends with quick demise.  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I know what you mean. Slow growth, which is still growth, is seen as a loss when compared to the more rapid growth of competitors. Companies get more "growth" by buying another company, gutting the acquired company and closing down facilities. It all makes sense from the perspective of stockholders and the five employees left. The sick reality is that less stuff is being made, fewer employees are kept. Totally awesome to be employed by a company that does this BTW. They will come out with a meeting saying how awesome the year's growth was. Then layoffs a couple of months down the line. | ||
| Williamscottrobertson |
I just find it interesting, that Levatich (who handled MV Agusta for HD) gets behind the reins and a street bike oriented harley appears a couple years later. It's like he said, "things are good now, let's get back into racing and let's look at a sports bike again." Levatich has been riding bikes since age 8 (most likely metric at that time) and is night/day from Wandell who didn't own a bike until he moved from Johnson Controls to HD. | ||
| Henshao |
You guys must be fans of George Kellgren, then. Apparently he refuses to go into debt to expand. Hence why his products are seemingly built in such small numbers. | ||
| Tootal |
I had to look him up! Now that I know who he is I'm embarrassed I didn't know that! You are right, big fan of Kel Tec. | ||
| Henshao |
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/03/jeremy-s/ truth-kel-tec/ As I read this page, some part of me wishes it were written about EBR instead. | ||
| Ffbuell1 |
The best way to keep stock holders happy is to make a product (in this case motorcycles ) so well that everyone that sees it and rides it says I gotta have one. That will keep them coming back. | ||
| Macbuell |
I like riding motorcycles. I'll ride anyone that I can throw a leg over. Hand me the keys and I'm off. That said, for me to want to own said motorcycle it has to speak to me. Not literally of course, but figuratively. When I look at it there is an instant love affair. Harleys just don't do that for me. They never have. And probably never will. So you can call me a hater or whatever you want but sitting on it or taking it for a ride won't make a difference. +1 on Kel-Tec. I own a Sub-2000. One of the coolest firearms I will probably ever own. | ||
| Etennuly |
I guess I am stuck in the 'hater' category. When I started riding back in the 70's, I was unimpressed with HD products and HD riders. In my home town area every Harley rider I came across, but two, were seriously into illegal stuff, drugs, theft, gang type stuff before they were even called gangs. The two guys I knew at the time who rode Harleys, one of them was a complete idiot in the "wanna-be" category, the other was a totally independent minded real bad ass school buddy of mine who generally scared most people who simply talked to him. He liked the look of the Sportsters. He waited two months to get one of the AMF Sporty 1000 bikes in blue, I think it was in '77 or '78. In HD fashion of the time it was a true POS. I saw it the day he got it, he was so proud of it. As he parked by my old used '74 CB750, it quit. Would not re-start. Battery died, clutch cable broke, and the kick starter gear broke, while he was kicking it over, then, an oil puddle formed under it while he was waiting for his brother to bring a pick up truck to haul it back to the dealer. If it was any of my other friends I would have harassed him about it, but not this guy. Next time I saw him he waived as he went through town and rode off to meet some of his riding pals. Two weeks later I heard he was getting out of the hospital. It seems the rear wheel assembly left the motorcycle at around 100 mph while he was crossing a half mile long concrete bridge 150 feet above the water near the Kinzua Dam. He rode it out until the frame and swing arm wore through grinding on the concrete, then he hit the wall. He said he did not remember anything after that. I never saw that bike again, but he told me about his insurance fighting with HD about who should pay for it. Damn thing still did not have 100 miles on it. I know he made payments on it for three years. Meanwhile I rode my old Honda another 1000 miles in that time period. I have three more stories like this about new Harley Motorcycles covering several different years, fortunately just failed machinery, not injuries. In '1988 I had a 1985 Honda V65 Magna. I bought it used and cheap to ride with some of my friends in Florida. They spent a lot of money to ride new Harleys. I only did actually ride with them together one time. Frequently their bikes were in the shop instead of being ride-able. I did rag on these guys, so they would not talk to me about when the bikes were not running. They became embarrassed about the whole thing, meanwhile I rode that V65 nearly every day. I found out years later that the one brand new HD Ultra Classic had new cylinders installed at 500 miles, where it was down for a couple of months. Later that year the wiring harness burned up costing him a couple more months. Then I also found out his buddy with the new Softtail spent $5000 for Screaming Eagle performance parts because I smoked him one night. I blew him away again several months after his bike mysteriously "disappeared" for several weeks. I had no idea he spent all of that $ to beat my Honda until the chance meeting all of those years later, I told him a headlight in the mirror is just a headlight in the mirror, I could not see how much he spent trying to keep up! My eldest son special ordered a new Ultra Classic Custom in a special two tone pearl white and blue in 2010 in Florida. He made four or five payments before it came in. He called me telling me about where it was in terms of production many times while he was waiting. I accidentally pissed him off while visiting one of our local BUELL dealers. I called him to ask him about his bike as I thought I was looking at exactly what he had ordered. It was. Basically a stock order bike in a new color, sitting on the floor at my BUELL dealer for nearly two months. He had me read the tag on the bike to him, it was exactly 'his' bike for nearly $1500 less because it was in stock. DOH! HD told him because he was several payments into his ordered bike they would not back up the deal. He got the bike, two months after that! An employee of mine, one who had ridden for decades and owns a $50,000 custom bike he built, last year bought his first Harley, a customized Ultra Classic. It was five years old, his brother-in-law bought it new and spent $10,000 on Screaming Eagle stuff to pretty it up. Sold it to him when he became ill. It had 35,000 miles on it. The crank came apart at 40,000 miles. $5,000 later it runs again! Yea! I had over the years ridden at least five different Harleys belonging to my buddies, not junk, nice samples. None impressed me for ride, handling, gas mileage, or power. I believe I am qualified to be a hater. HD.....yeah.....gotta get me some.  Go ahead, ask me how I ended up riding Buells. | ||
| Blake |
As a friend to Erik and a huge admirer of the old Buell Motorcycle Company, HD disowned me as a result of their insane greed (see their finance division) and short-sighted partly vindictive treatment of Buell. When the full story got out, I was floored, gutted, kicked in the head. I literally cannot stomach the idea of even sitting on one of their bikes. I don't hold it against those who do. But as for me? HD is dead to me. I think some others who may feel likewise vent their anger at the bikes. | ||
| Etennuly |
The thing that does not fit with HD is to crush Buell brand then look for what Buell was to put in their showrooms. What would have made sense business wise to me, since the Buell badge seemed to be a misunderstood embarrassment to the Harley faithful, but the bikes were filling the need, pay off Erik for his name and re-badge the bikes with the HD bar and shield. | ||
| 86129squids |
It is arguable whether my buddy Shane or I were the first SMHD/BUELL sales guys hired here in Mur-vil TN, in 2004. I claim to be the first. He's still there, a brother from another mother, but still selling. Before I took that job, I had the chance and honor of taking classes from a great marketing professor at UTK, Dick Reisenstein. He is also a wine expert and aficionado, as I would find out years later. What I learned from him informed me as to the sheer, complete idiocy of a LOT of things HD has done over the years. They never knew, had any idea, what they lost when they Fxxhltcuizkced Erik and the Elves. (Message edited by 86129squids on March 15, 2017) | ||
| Adrenaline_junkie |
I hate to blame all of H-D for the actions of Wandell. I'm sure others were involved in the decisions but ultimately it was his call to shut down Buell and focus on cruisers. Personally, I love the looks of the new Street Rod but I don't think it will have enough performance to satisfy me. I want XB12 levels of performance. I want a twin cylinder. I want a substantial dealer network. I want American made. At this time nobody is punching all of those buttons. Anything that indicates Harley or Indian is moving in that direction is a good thing in my book. | ||
| Bartimus |
I don't understand, or see the connection between the Street 750, and Buell... Buell never built or attempted to market a sport cruiser, and Hardley isn't attempting to market a sport bike. I think the 750 is a step in the right direction for Hardley, as is the Roadster Henshao posted above. Both offer performance, and handling not seen in most Hardleys. I think I'm in the Hardley hater category even though I own 3 of them. None, IMO are sporting enough to replace any sportbike in my garage, and none are utilitarian enough to "do it all" like my Tenere. But I have to admit, no matter where I ride my FXDX, people wave, tell me what a beautiful bike it is, and on, and on, and on... I do like the way it looks, and it is comfortable. But at 65HP, (at the crank), it's no powerhouse. It's purpose is to putt around town, and it does that well enough. So I guess I fall into both categories, I am a Buell owner that bags on Hardleys, But, I am also a Hardley owner that rides, and does understand the limitations of the bike, and the Corporate back stabbing that comes with that ownership. Either way, I see the Street 750 as not a threat to Buell, nor do I see it as anything like a Buell. It's more like a baby Vrod with better rake, and trail. Perhaps Hardley can take some of that tech and apply it to the Vrod to make it the sporting Hardley it should have been. (Message edited by bartimus on March 16, 2017) | ||
| Fast1075 |
An old friend of mine had an experience with an AMF Sportster that was very much like Vern's buddy's experience. I've never owned a "Harley", but I have owned a couple of Buells. My dealer was Lakeland Harley Davidson/Buell. Great people once you get past the sales staff. They actually proudly displayed their Buells. Mr. Huffman rode a Ulysses that was lowered (he is a short fella), and rode with the Buell group every month. So not all Harley dealers are dicks, although I have run into some that I will never buy anything from. |
