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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



Source: https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/826276164578 713601/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Attorney General role includes significant prosecutorial discretion. Putting on a knob that goes to 11 doesn't make it louder.

Even my local county prosecutor has a TON of discretion.

The executive order, a policy, had to be translated into an executable set of specific implementation practices for officers on the ground (which was not done in advance). So that wasn't even done yet. Then the Attorney General has to figure out the groundwork for how, when, and where they prosecute violations of those not yet existent standards

She exercised her discretion, which was pretty much 100% predictable given she was an Obama appointee. And Trump immediately fired her, and replaced him with his appointee. Who, no doubt, will have different conclusions based on his discretion. Wanna bet he agrees with Trump? : )

The prosecutor chooses where, when, and how they pursue prosecution. The grand jury is a check and balance to prevent prosecutors from over reaching on prosecutions. The check and balance on making a prosecuter act when they don't want think they should is to fire them (either through their boss or through the next election).

For example, our local county prosecutor (who is REALLY good) regularly posts updates explaining why he sought "lesser penalties" in his prosecution.

For example:


quote:

INMATE PLEADS GUILTY TO AGGRAVATED MURDER OF CELLMATE
“Because of his prior conviction for aggravated murder, our office would typically have sought the death penalty under these circumstances. However, despite his ability to pre-meditate and carry out this brutal murder, the Supreme Court has held that someone with the defendant’s IQ is ineligible for the death penalty. Therefore, we sought and obtained the highest sentence available to us under the law—life without the possibility of parole,” said Warren County Prosecutor David P. Fornshell.




FB, if you shot a rapist in the act, and your local prosecutor refused to bring you up on murder charges despite outcries from the perpetrators family and the mayor, would you call it a coup?
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Hootowl
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 05:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I hear you Bill. However, discretion, as it applies to prosecutors, must be on a case by case basis. This appeared to be a blanket policy based on her belief, despite previous assertion by her own department, that the order was legal. That's not discretion, that's disagreeing with your boss and telling him to pound sand.

(Message edited by Hootowl on January 31, 2017)
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Putting on a knob that goes to 11 doesn't make it louder.

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by this statement.

The executive order, a policy, had to be translated into an executable set of specific implementation practices for officers on the ground (which was not done in advance).

Source?

She exercised her discretion...

Yes, she did. Please cite something that illustrates that she had, by virtue of her position, this discretionary privilege.

...which was pretty much 100% predictable given she was an 0bama appointee.

Nope, absolutely NOT predictable at all (and certainly unacceptable). She swore, under oath, with her hand on the Holy Bible, to do her duty as AG. Her political affiliation, and the fact she was appointed by 0bama, have (should have) ZERO bearing on her ability to carry out her duties.

Are you suggesting that every democrat in federal government has some right, by virtue of their political viewpoint, to ignore their constitutional duties? Or, put another way, to use their discretion as to what they duties they perform simply because they have a "D" behind their name?

The prosecutor chooses where, when, and how they pursue prosecution.

The issue, in her case, wasn't prosecution, it was defense (or, more accurately, lack thereof); please correct me if I'm wrong.

FB, if you shot a rapist in the act, and your local prosecutor refused to bring you up on murder charges despite outcries from the perpetrators family and the mayor, would you call it a coup?

Oh, my goodness. Are you serious?!? That's quite the segue, amigo. : )
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sometimes you tell your boss to pound sand. Then he fires you. That's how it works.

The pundits are trying to figure out how she got the temp job in the first place.

If you think Donald is a brilliant manipulator, then I'd go with the idea he deliberately set her up to get fired. Anyone who knew her knew she was a political hack. So firing her was a shot across the bow for not just the Dept. of Social Justice, but all the agencies that have been illegally doing Party Work for Barry.

If you think Donald is a fool, then he picked the wrong people to chose her for the temp job and it's just a mess of incompetence.

Your choice. I'm guessing the first.

Keep in mind that Donald's hiring freeze adversely affects me at work. Big pain in the butt.

But he can lay waste to the upper levels of D.C. bureaucracy with my blessings. Fire everyone he likes who's appointed.

And I'm taking bets on if he gets rid of the bunny inspectors. ( my bet, no )
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok, I'll agree with that. And I agree that she should have resigned instead of refusing, but the outcome is the same.

I think Trump played this one exactly right. Prompt, professional, polite, and zero room for negotiation. No drama, no hyperbole, but no mercy.

He sent the message that he is in charge, he is mature, and he will be relentless in doing exactly what he says he will do.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 05:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Watch the spinal tap video.

Do you understand the difference in job descriptions between political appointees and career civil servants?

Political appointees are necessary for the executive branch to carry forward their vision. It's a job for the true believers.
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

... I agree that she should have resigned instead of refusing, but the outcome is the same.

I don't recall suggesting that she should have resigned; perhaps this comment wasn't directed at me. She should, IMO, face legal consequences for her actions. I don't know the law/s in this regard, so I can't really make my case any louder than that.

I think Trump played this one exactly right.

Agree.

Watch the spinal tap video.

No, thanks. : )

Do you understand the difference in job descriptions between political appointees and career civil servants?

Well, yeah, I do. My question still stands, albeit slightly revised: If you're a Democrat political appointee, does the "D" behind your name give you discretion over which of your official duties you perform?

Thanks for the conversation. : )
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Putting on a knob that goes to 11 doesn't make it louder.

Is this because I post a lot of stuff on this thread, in this case, a lot of stuff on the AG Yates dealio?
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 06:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

...does the "D" behind your name give you discretion over which of your official duties you perform?

Nope. ( it was SOOOOO hard not to kick into sarcasm )

The concept of prosecutor discretion was cranked to eleven by Obama.

"I don't like that law, so I'm not going to enforce it." Morally iffy. Legally poor. Even though Barry decided not to enforce some laws I didn't like, that's not to say it was right.

The legal idea is "we have rioters setting fire to shops, so I told my cops not to bother with the journalists smoking pot with the protesters and concentrate on public safety" That's how it's supposed to work.

Then he took it to.."I'm not going to enforce the border so you can come in illegally and I won't let them prosecute you." That goes to criminal action by Barry.

Calls to protest, with no call to be non-violent? That's tacit permission. Multiple times, including yesterday.

Now, let's consider Donald's actions.

Using the form the previous president used to take action on refugee limitations, Trump did the same thing. Used Obama's list too.

What a monster. ( Sarcasm )
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 07:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Ted Cruz Slams Sally Yates & Exposes Democratic Lawlessness During Sessions Hearing 1/31/2017
Posted by Syndicated News, 01/31/2017


https://youtu.be/LCJ-HmnrkZw


Bravo.
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 07:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

More cowbell:


quote:

Is President Trump Doing Management Wrong?
By Scott Adams, 01/31/2017

I made the mistake of turning on CNN yesterday and saw all the hypnotized pundits trying to work the secret persuasion word “chaos” into every comment about President Trump. That’s your tell that none of the pundits are offering independent opinions. They are part of the hive-mind led by some uncredited persuader on their side. Someone told them to say “chaos” a lot, and so they do. This might signal the return of Godzilla. Reminds me of “dark,” their hive-mind word for the summer of 2016.

...The world is watching Trump trade some “chaos” to get the benefits of entrepreneurial management. It’s fast and messy, but he’s testing in real time. He’s watching protests. He’s watching news coverage. He’s watching social media. And he’s rapidly adjusting as needed. The net effect of Trump’s bias for action in his first week is that he created a presidential brand of being the most action-oriented president of all time. Your first impression will be sticky. If things work out for Trump, you will forget any temporary “chaos” and remember him as the most effective president in history. Success fixes everything. Every entrepreneur knows that.



Source, more: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156628357041/is-presi dent-trump-doing-management-wrong
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Hootowl
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 07:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

YES. I meant legal. Sorry!
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 07:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Plug thine ears if necessary:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b0bIEMsHwM

-------------------

The mainstream media, most likely by design, has sucked all of the cognitive oxygen from the epicness of one P45's most-major accomplishments, as so eloquently explained in the above video.

Here's some study material to go along with the vid:


quote:

Stunning Win – Saudi King Salman Agrees to Support/Finance Safe Zones In Syria and Yemen
By Sundance, 01/29/2017

This is a jaw-dropping exhibition of the scope of President Trump’s strategic leverage. Remember how Secretary of State Rex Tillerson refused to take the bait from Senator Marco Rubio regarding Saudi Arabia? Put this outcome in the dividend column.

Those who have not followed the back-story of non-extremist politics in the middle-east will miss the obvious play identified more readily by those who have followed closely.

One of the major influences and advisers for King Salman of Saudi Arabia is Egyptian President Fattah Abdel el-Sisi. El-Sisi has already established a productive relationship with President Trump both before and after the election. No doubt King Salman and President Sisi debriefed the prior conversations between Trump and el-Sisi.

Today King Salman agrees to a primary expressed policy position of President Trump. Saudi Arabia will support and finance “safe zones” within Syria and Yemen. This is a big, big deal.


quote:

(Via Reuters) Saudi Arabia’s King Salman, in a phone call on Sunday with U.S. President Donald Trump, agreed to support safe zones in Syria and Yemen, a White House statement said.

Trump, during his presidential campaign last year, had called for Gulf states to pay for establishing safe zones to protect Syrian refugees.

A statement after the phone call said the two leaders agreed on the importance of strengthening joint efforts to fight the spread of Islamic State militants.




Source: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/01/29/st unning-win-saudi-king-salman-agrees-to-supportfina nce-safe-zones-in-syria-and-yemen/


This is a YUGE deal! Do y'all know about this? Has your news source kept you abreast of this epicness?

Watch the video, then read the piece.

Or not.
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

YES. I meant legal. Sorry!

I knew you did; no worries. I just nuked my "Did you know..." question upthread to you. Nuke your message directly above this, I'll nuke THIS message, and no one will be the wiser. : )
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 08:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



Image link: https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.c om/2017/01/gorsuch-3.jpg
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:



To Neil Gorsuch
Fond memories of a day on the Colorado
With warm regards
Antonin Scalia



Image source: https://twitter.com/michaelhayes/status/8265977505 15105794/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.scotusblog.com/2017/01/potential-nomine e-profile-neil-gorsuch/
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Sifo
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think many are missing what the firing of Yates was about. It has nothing to do with proprietorial discretion. Her job was to defend the law in court against legal challenges to the law. That's her freaking job! She refused to do it. It's like a public defender saying they refuse to defend a specific defendant because the don't like them. They don't get that choice. Read the first and last paragraphs in letter Fb1 posted...

She is trying to set policy. That is her bosses job. She made the decision not defend the law in court challenges. Coup is not all that far off. A very weak coup attempt perhaps, but certainly an attempt to overthrow Trumps policy.
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Dtaylor
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 08:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hi Ferris,

In a nutshell:

I am not terribly impressed with Mr. Trudeau; I find him to be a little light on substance, and a bit of a weathervane.

I am disappointed in the number of Trudeau’s campaign promises that are being deflated — in particular the promise to implement the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. There is a staggering amount of reconciliation and reparation overdue to the people who originally welcomed my ancestors onto their land — a welcome that was rewarded with broken treaties, apartheid and genocide by its very definition: http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialte xt-printerfriendly.htm

Trudeau’s cabinet is heartening, though, in its diversity and sensibility. It appears that most of the portfolios are held by ministers who actually have business holding them. i.e.: our Minister of Science is a scientist, our Minister of Health is a physician, etc.: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/the-t rudeau-cabinet-read-the-full-list-ofministers/arti cle27095965/

I feel that Trudeau’s #WelcomeToCanada tweet (referenced earlier in this thread) is a fair representation of my compatriots’ values. I haven’t heard any criticism of it from friends, family or around the water cooler at work. And there is no shortage of Trudeau detractors and right-leaning people among my friends, family and coworkers!

My personal leanings are to the left — I am all for social justice, inclusiveness, equality, and taking care of each other and of our environment. I try my best to walk that walk in everything I do.

Now… back to the scheduled thread! ; )


Wishing all the best to you and yours,
Doug



quote:

Dtaylor/Doug: Would you mind sharing your opinion of PM Trudeau as your country's leader? If you choose not to I understand.

Best,
Ferris


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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think many are missing what the firing of Yates was about. It has nothing to do with proprietorial discretion. Her job was to defend the law in court against legal challenges to the law.

Bingo.
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 09:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Doug, thank you VERY much for your feedback, and for including links so I can study further. I very much appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post. I've ridden in Canada (BC) on several occasions, and always found Canadians to be exceedingly friendly and polite.

I mentioned a little earlier in this thread that I've never really followed Canadian politics, but that is changing. It will be interesting to see how Prime Minister Trudeau and President Trump (and, thus, our two countries) interact with each other in the coming weeks, months and years.

Best regards,
Ferris
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 09:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

PS:

I am not terribly impressed with Mr. Trudeau; I find him to be a little light on substance...

Down here we call that "all hat and no cattle."

: )
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Fb1
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 09:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One more PS:

My personal leanings are to the left — I am all for social justice, inclusiveness, equality, and taking care of each other and of our environment.

With all due respect, your "all fors" listed above are not dependent on one's political leanings, IMO. I lean right, and I'm all for those things, as well.

: )
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Hootowl
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 10:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Depends on what you mean by 'social justice'.
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Dtaylor
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Doug, thank you VERY much for your feedback, and for including links so I can study further. I very much appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post. I've ridden in Canada (BC) on several occasions, and always found Canadians to be exceedingly friendly and polite.




And I’m happy to say my experience has been the same on your side of the border. I’ve met many interesting, wonderfully friendly folks while riding those exquisite roads (paved and dirt) in VA, WV, KY, PA, etc. Daniel Boone Nat’l Forest and maybe Nashville are on the radar for this spring, if I can get enough annual leave. : )



quote:

Down here we call that "all hat and no cattle."




I grew up on a farm in Alberta — I have a feeling that’s been said about Justin Trudeau in those parts, too. : ) I don’t think there’s a lot of love for J.T. in rural Alberta, just as there wasn’t a lot of love for his father, Pierre — who, love him or hate him, was a truly brilliant man and politician.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Trudeau

http://canadachannel.ca/canadianbirthdays/index.ph p/Quotes_by_Prime_Ministers_-_Pierre_Trudeau

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2008/12/08/nixo n_tapes_include_testy_trudeau_chat.html



quote:

I mentioned a little earlier in this thread that I've never really followed Canadian politics, but that is changing. It will be interesting to see how Prime Minister Trudeau and President Trump (and, thus, our two countries) interact with each other in the coming weeks, months and years.




Interesting days ahead. As the senior Trudeau described being neighbour to the USA: “Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt.”



quote:

With all due respect, your "all fors" listed above are not dependent on one's political leanings, IMO. I lean right, and I'm all for those things, as well.




Oops - I didn’t mean to imply that those are exclusive! : )
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Hughlysses
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 11:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interesting blog by Scott Adams (creator/author of "Dilbert") on how Mr. Trump is doing.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156628357041/is-presi dent-trump-doing-management-wrong

Adams has written some fairly brilliant analysis throughout the presidential election.
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H0gwash
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think Yates could not defend the priority given to religious minorities against a charge of religious discrimination to her own satisfaction AND this would be a personal "getting fired fantasy". I think she would prefer working with other women than working with Trump.
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Dtaylor
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2017 - 12:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hootowl wrote:

quote:

Depends on what you mean by 'social justice'.




Hi Jeff,

In my case I am referring generally to social justice as described in wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice . More specifically, I am really interested in social justice and incarceration, as well as prison reform.

For the past 11 years, I've worked as a correctional officer in one of my country's federal penitentiaries, where rehabilitation and reintegration is touted as the end goal. Yet all indicators suggest that we have failed miserably, and expensively. Other countries do it with less recidivism and at a lower cost - both financially and to society:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison- system-is-so-successful-2014-12

https://mic.com/articles/109138/sweden-has-done-fo r-its-prisoners-what-the-u-s-won-t#.vJAFTYEBi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfEsz812Q1I

Bringing this post to the thread's topic -- it appears that Trump's presidency is a boon to shareholders in the private prison industry: https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-election-victory-gives-private-prisons-a-boost-1484693381

take care,
Doug

(Message edited by dtaylor on February 01, 2017)
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Sifo
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2017 - 05:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think Yates could not defend the priority given to religious minorities against a charge of religious discrimination to her own satisfaction AND this would be a personal "getting fired fantasy". I think she would prefer working with other women than working with Trump.

I just find it... Let's call it "interesting"... That there was virtually zero concern when BO issued very similar executive orders. Dare I say the objection is nothing more than thinly veiled hatred for the (R) next to Trumps name on the ballot. It's ridiculous to watch.
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