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Ourdee
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 03:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bar just close?
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 05:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sifo went from wanting assurances that the money gets paid to waiting for you to get it figured out. Still there. I see you are introducing new verbiage into the bet. Suddenly it's only the middle class.
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Crusty
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 05:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You know; the Donald might be an ass, but he's light years ahead of the lying, corrupt bitch who lost the election to him.

At least he's trying to make this country better for all Americans and not just whoever donates the most to a "charitable" foundation.
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Ducbsa
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 06:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Regarding taking Chicago over, I thought the Obama DOJ already did that earlier in January, just like they did in Ferguson, etc., etc.
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Fb1
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 08:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I do a lot of NPR and PBS News Hour...

Both of which lean hard left; follow the money.
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Fb1
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 09:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Catherine Engelbrecht: “Voter Fraud is Institutionalized” Here’s How
By Sundance, 01/26/2017

For those who don’t know Catherine Engelbrecht, she has been the tip of the spear on voting integrity since 2008. Catherine, along with thousands of other people, was a direct target of the weaponized IRS following the assembly of various Tea Party groups in 2009/2010. Mrs Engelbrecht has delivered passionate testimony to congress.

In addition, Engelbrecht was also illegally singled out for specific investigation by House Committee Chairman Elijah Cummings for her “true the vote” efforts. Few people know the depth of voter fraud, and the various issues within intentional vote manipulation, with as much insight. After almost a decade of intense work at state and local levels; Englebrecht is a subject matter expert on voting issues.



[…] Engelbrecht said shortly after founding and leading True to Vote and King Street Patriots, she was visited by law enforcement agencies and Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), even though outside of filing their tax returns, she and her husband never dealt with any government agency in nearly two decades of running their small business.

“We had never been audited. We had never been investigated, but all that changed upon submitting applications for the non-profit statuses of True the Vote and King Street,” she told the House Oversight and Government Reform Subcommittee.

“Since that filing in 2010, my private businesses, my nonprofit organizations, my family and I have been subjected to more than 15 instances of audit or inquiry by federal agencies,” she added.

Engelbrecht’s personal and business tax returns were audited in 2011 – “each audit going back for a number of years.” Her business was inspected by Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) in 2012 when neither she nor her husband was present. She said she was later fined over $20,000 even though “the agency wrote that it found nothing serious or significant.”

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms audited her business in 2012 and 2013, and the FBI contacted her non-profit group six times since 2010 in an attempt to “cull through membership manifests in conjunction with domestic terrorism cases,” she claimed.

“They eventually dropped all matters and have now redacted nearly all my files,” Engelbrecht said.

“All of these incursions into my affairs began after filing applications for tax-exemption. There is no other remarkable event. There’s no other reason to explain how for decades I went unnoticed, but now find myself on the receiving end of inter-agency coordination into and against all facets of my life, both personal and private,” she said.

“Bear in mind, distinguished ladies and gentlemen of this subcommittee, these events were occurring while the IRS was subjecting me to multiple rounds of abusive inquiries with request to provide every Facebook and Twitter I’d ever posted, questions about my political aspirations and demands to know the names of groups that I had spoken with, the content of what I had send and everywhere I intended to speak in the coming year,” she added.

“This government attacked me because of my political beliefs, but I refuse to be cast as a victim,” she said. “I am not a victim, because a victim has no options. I do have options, and I intend to use them all to the fullest extent of my capabilities.”

“As an American citizen, I am part of a country that still believes in freedom of speech,” Engelbrecht said.

She pledged to press the issue “in every legal way possible,” including filing suit against the IRS, and vowed to continue to speak out – “here in Congress and all across this country.”

“No American citizen should be willing to accept a government that uses its power against its own people,” she added. (read more)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWIhKbTJ0o4

Source, more: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/01/26/ca therine-engelbrecht-voter-fraud-is-institutionaliz ed-heres-how/
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Wiscokid
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 09:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

you would be right on that one Ourdee, as much as I dislike our Liar in chief, what I said was over the top.

Yes Sifo by " Betcha a bunch we are better off now then we will be in four years" I am talking middle class working people. The statistics we use will be about middle-class strength. The couple people that may be known to both of us have not responded as wanting to mediate so I am open to how/ with who you want to proceed.
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Slaughter
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 09:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Question: if the election is declared null and void because the committee finds "massive" voter fraud, can this country endure the new Presidential election if/as required by law?
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Slaughter
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 09:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This was a fun/entertaining read this morning outlining how the BLM movement are resenting the "white women's" peaceful (and massive) protest last weekend.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/24/bl ack-lives-matter-resents-peaceful-favorable-wome/

I apologize in advance for the Washington Times' sleazy overlay of links and clickbait. Upper right is the "Continue to article" link.

(Message edited by slaughter on January 26, 2017)
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Fb1
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Narrative Fail: Overwhelming Support for President Trump’s “America First” Inaugural Address
By Sundance, 01/26/2017

If you listened to the media narrative, the inaugural address by President Trump was filled with doom and gloom. Most MSM pundits labeling the speech “dark“, “foreboding”, “negative” or “divisive“. Some even called it “out of touch” and “dystopian“.

Except, there’s a problem,…

….the vast majority of American’s liked it.

In a predictably non-discussed poll commissioned by Politico and taken by Morning Consult, not only did the majority of Americans support the speech, the even larger majority of those polled supported the message therein:



(^ Image link: https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.c om/2017/01/trump-inaug-day-poll.jpg)

...Within the actual construct of the poll (full pdf below) you can identify the MSM agenda. The questions were phrased to deliver the maximum negative response, and yet it still didn’t deliver the desired result.

The methodology was also constructed for maximum negative reply: Female respondents were over represented 53/47 (pg. 253). Democrats were over represented 37-D, 32-R, 30-I; and most brutally transparent, liberal women were oversampled within the gender sub-group: Dem Women 414, Rep Women 335, Ind Women 313 – yet the poll still shows overwhelming female support for Trump delivery, policy and agenda as queried:



(^ Image link: https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.c om/2017/01/trump-oath-5.jpg)


quote:

Via Politico) […] A new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll shows that the new president’s message is resonating with voters, refuting the idea that Trump bungled his first speech as commander in chief.

Trump got relatively high marks on his Friday address, with 49 percent of those who watched or heard about the speech saying it was excellent or good, and just 39 percent rating it as only fair or poor.

Sixty-five percent of those surveyed reacted positively to the “America First” message, the cornerstone of the Trump campaign and governing posture.

Americans are looking for Trump to put his slogan into action: 61 percent said they agreed with Trump’s plan that the federal government should “buy American and hire American.” (read more)



Whoopsie, that reality punches a hole directly through the heart of the well-distributed media narrative. Sheeesh, well, what do you know, the MSM was wrong again. Go figure.

Here’s the full 256-page poll pdf:

Source, more: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/01/26/na rrative-fail-overwhelming-support-for-president-tr umps-america-first-inaugural-address/
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 09:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"but that statement just opened up the ability for our brave soldiers to also be submitted to atrocities"

Do you think we're fighting signatories of the Geneva Convention?
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H0gwash
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Both of which lean hard left; follow the money.
Do you know of any traditional news sources that lean right?
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 10:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes Sifo by " Betcha a bunch we are better off now then we will be in four years" I am talking middle class working people.

My bad. I thought we were talking about the inclusive we, as in America. I didn't know we were talking about the liberal we that excludes all those we dislike at the moment.

How to proceed forward? As I said earlier... An independent arbiter that assures the money gets paid to the winner. A single metric with an agreed upon source where there is no gray area as to the outcome. As I stated, GDP makes sense. Make it happen or shut up about it!
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Wiscokid
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have said I tried to find a middle person, no luck, im open to anybody, Ourdee wanna be it? Multiple metrics that represent us the middle class is what I am talking, I have no doubt he might make the rich richer, im worried about 100's of millions of working class people. If you won't bet on the middle class you can wimp out, though I will love bringing it up for years.
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Crusty
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm just curious; how much are you betting in this silly wager? If you've already stated the amount, I apologize; but I haven't been following the argument that closely.

And before anyone considers asking, I am neither willing to add to the wager, nor am I willing to be the pivot man.
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I suggested $5,000. Mr. big balls, or whatever his real name is backed it down to $1,000, but is now trying to make it the equivalent to betting on 12 different sports, all in a single bet.

GDP. Simple to verify. Includes, overwhelmingly, the middle class. No dispute on the winner. That was agreed upon at one point. Make it happen or don't.
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Airbozo
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If California were to recede from the US, it would cause a lot of problems for all the other states, since we are responsible for over 13% of the nations economy and it ranks #7 in the world.

Here is a nice little snippet:

"California last year created the most jobs of any state, 483,000, more than the second- and third-most-populous states Florida and Texas combined (they added 257,900 and 175,700) and at a faster rate than any of the world's developed economies. The pace of employment growth was almost triple the rate of job creation for the 19 countries that make up the euro zone and more than 3.5 times that of Japan, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

The high taxes and ubiquitous regulation critics cite when assailing Golden State government are proving no impediment to business and investment. They may even be a benefit, as public policy and people's preferences converge. Four of the world's 10 largest companies are based in California. Two of them -- Alphabet and Facebook -- were conceived in the past 18 years. San Francisco-based Wells Fargo, the world's largest bank by market capitalization, routinely outperforms any of its peers from Wall Street.

California produces almost all of the country's almonds, apricots, dates, figs, kiwifruit, nectarines, olives, pistachios, prunes and walnuts among dozens of crops that make it No. 1 in the U.S., with an equivalent GDP from agriculture, forestry and hunting totaling more than $37.7 billion, dwarfing No. 2 Iowa's $12.1 billion, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. No state comes close to California in manufacturing totaling $255.6 billion. Texas is next with $239.1 billion. The trailing 12-month revenue from California technology companies totaled $732 billion, or 53 percent of all tech revenues in the U.S."

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-06 /california-makes-america-s-economy-great

Careful what you wish for since this state supports a good portion of the US economy.

Rather than wishing for it's demise, we need more conservatives to move to the population centers and challenge the stranglehold liberals have on the government. Outside of the big cities, California is about half a conservative state.
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H0gwash
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Do you know of any traditional news sources that lean right?
Answering my own question here- I recall Dems labeled Fox News as 'right wing news' during the Bush administrations so I can see what they have to say for balance.
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Fb1
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Do you know of any traditional news sources that lean right?

I advise against relying on "traditional" news sources at all. You - and I say this with the utmost respect - need to be your own news detective.

Traditional sources "feed" you the news, what THEY want you to believe is the truth.

And maybe it is.......but as we've seen countless times during the past eight years, more likely it's not. Traditional news sources all have an agenda.

And, sadly, this agenda overwhelmingly leans left.

If I had to guess, I'd say FOX is your best shot at the truth.

But even then I'd filter everything you hear.

How? The internet.

If there's a subject that interests you, but you're unsure the news source is shooting straight with their delivery, the 'net makes it real easy to fact-check.

I get virtually 0% of my news from traditional sources. I am my own news detective; I've determined that it's the only chance I have at discerning what's truth, and what's propaganda.

And these days, it's mostly propaganda.

Vet your news; consider the source, and whether or not they have an agenda. Follow the money.

Thanks for the question, and the discussion.

FB
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Fb1
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

PS: Train yourself to listen for the spin.

After a while it becomes very easy to recognize, barely even taking conscious thought.

Listen for the spin.
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Rather than wishing for it's demise, we need more conservatives to move to the population centers and challenge the stranglehold liberals have on the government.

Wouldn't wish for it's demise. If it were to secede, it wouldn't be it's demise. There would still be trade, as negotiated with the Trump administration. The nations almond supply would almost certainly be secure. At least as secure as California's supply of electricity and fuel.
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Wiscokid
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

From the get go I said multiple statistics, and GDP does not represent the health of the middle class. Is no member of the BWBT willing to officiate? unemployment (as long as it is calculated the same way) and I know there is a metric of worker buying power and average savings would be good but like I said I am betting on the middle class, you like many conservatives are just worried about helping Drumph and his fellow 1%ers. But by golly he sure drained the swamp with his multiple Goldman Sachs execs and such!

"On November 21, two weeks after the election, Trump promised—on tape—that on day one, he would impose a five-year ban on executive-branch officials becoming lobbyists after leaving his administration, and a lifetime ban on lobbying for a foreign government. Trump officials also made this pledge on conference calls during the transition. Yet, six days into the presidency, this lobbyist ban has yet to materialize."

Its hard to keep up with his lies.
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Crusty
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There are many conservatives in California. I've noticed that people on this forum tend to think in Extremes. Because I live in Massachusetts, I've been sensitive to references on how everybody in this state must be very liberal.
My friend Bill, who leaned toward being very liberal, lived in Irvine, California. He often referred to living there as living behind the Orange Curtain, as he was overwhelmingly surrounded by conservatives.

I don't believe it would be a good thing if California seceded from the Union, but I could very easily be wrong.

In his book Friday, Robert A. Heinlein described the USA as having broken up into several smaller independent states. I really hope it doesn't come to that, but the differences between various areas are becoming bigger and dealing with them is becoming a lot more complex.
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H0gwash
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm not totally opposed to non traditional "political perspective" pieces. I think it is important to weave together bits of news pieces into a larger 'tapestry.'

Nontraditional often means fewer facts and more interpretation/ opinion on both sides of the aisle. They do take longer to read too.
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Crusty
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 12:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A Whole six days!!!?! Wow! Why that lying two faced politician. Withdrawing from the TPP, executive orders about pipelines, having materials supplied from US sources, creating jobs for Americans and all the rest really should come after he makes his staff sign that order that goes into effect when they leave their jobs eight years from now.

Come on; you can do better than that.
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK, you "know there is a metric" isn't much of anything specific to make a bet on. Make it happen captain, or shut up. When was "middle class" first mentioned? Here's where your BS started...


quote:

Posted on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 06:49 pm:
Betcha a bunch we are better off now then we will be in four years, anybody want to put your money where your mouth is?




Just "we". No middle class. Just a simple "we will be better off in four years".

I did agree to a bet on these conditions...


quote:

Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 10:43 am:
So simply having cash in an account is meaningless. Now if we could have our cash put into an account controlled by a trusted 3rd party, who would also have to be the final arbiter of the winner, that might be worth considering. Let the 3rd party put the money into an interest bearing account, and upon the conclusion of the bet, the arbiter keeps any interest, for his troubles.

Also, none of this, 10-20 points of data to argue the value and weight of each in 4 years time. A single data point, with an agreed upon source. I would suggest GDP, given that we are talking about economic growth.

Seed the pot with $5,000 each?




You replied with...


quote:

Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 01:00 pm:
no connections with Putin?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/politics/donald-trum p-vladimir-putin-quotes/

And I love how Obama is weak for not going to war over Crimea but Trump talking favorably bout him is a good thing to you guys.

Sifo your on. 1K. I know a couple likely mutual acquaintances... but I'm not sure they want to to be involved, so yeah how do we find a 3rd party mediator.




So we are on for $1K on GDP. Find a arbiter. Make it happen captain. Or shut up.

GDP data can be found at https://bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?ReqID=9&step=1#r eqid=9&step=3&isuri=1&903=5 Nice and simple. Either we are better off, or we aren't. Stop the squirming. Be a man and do what you said.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I suggested 4 published numbers.

I further suggest the bet be "pay for dinner at" The Dinosaur or other rib joint in a good days ride for the bettors. No need for any possible illegal activities. A friendly wager of peers.

May have to make parallel wagers for each coast.

That makes it all a matter of honor.

I do have to ask. What's the rush? Bet is for a year's performance and I suggest 4 as well.

The only reason to be strident about this today is ego and perhaps distraction?

Re: The people's republic of California.

Texas was last years talked about leaving. Few were serious. Today's Calexit nonsense is just childish tantrum.
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Airbozo
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"In his book Friday, Robert A. Heinlein described the USA as having broken up into several smaller independent states. I really hope it doesn't come to that, but the differences between various areas are becoming bigger and dealing with them is becoming a lot more complex."

One of my most favorite books ever!
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 01:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That makes it all a matter of honor.

As I've pointed out, it should be a gentleman's bet, but that starts with trust and honesty. He's already posing as someone he isn't, and won't fess up to who he really is. I'm pretty sure I know though. Based on that suspicion, I wouldn't bother with such a gentleman's bet in the first place.

Dinner at the Dinosaur would be good, but not realistic for me, win or lose.

Today's Calexit nonsense is just childish tantrum.

Have to agree.
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Fb1
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2017 - 01:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They [non-traditional news sources] do take longer to read too.

Yep; I didn't say ferreting out the truth is easy. : )
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