| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
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| Falloutnl |
...and yet, the article blames congress for "not working with him". To be fair though, you guys do dislike the man so much that it would be political suicide for any republican to be seen actually working with Obama on something. (Message edited by falloutnl on January 19, 2017) | ||
| Reepicheep |
That simply isn't true. But if you want to keep oversimplifying the world in terms of black and white and buying into every oversimplified narrative thrown in front of you, and enjoy being played the fool, that's your business. (And that applies to people in both parties equally well...) | ||
| Njloco |
Falloutnl is a product of this, I am repeating it just encase he missed it. Falloutnl, This is why you will never be able to understand ! The direct involvement of the Netherlands in World War II began with its invasion by Nazi Germany on 10 May 1940. The Netherlands had proclaimed neutrality when war broke out in September 1939, just as it had in World War I, but Adolf Hitler ordered it to be invaded anyway.[1] On 15 May 1940, one day after the bombing of Rotterdam, the Dutch forces surrendered. The Dutch government and the royal family escaped and went into exile in London. Following the defeat, the Netherlands was placed under German occupation, which endured in some areas until the German surrender in May 1945. Active resistance was carried out by a small minority, which grew in the course of the occupation. The occupiers deported the majority of the country's Jews to Nazi concentration camps, with the cooperation of much of the Dutch police and civil service.[2] In fact, the Netherlands saw one of the highest levels of collaboration during the Holocaust of any occupied country. The city of Amsterdam organized the only industrial action in protest to the persecution of their Jewish fellow citizens ever in all of the Nazi occupied areas. Nonetheless, and also due to the well organized population registers comparing to other countries, about 75% of the country's Jewish population were killed during the conflict; a much higher percentage than comparable countries, like Belgium and France.[3] Most of the south of the country was liberated in the second half of 1944. The rest, especially the west and north of the country still under occupation, suffered from a famine at the end of 1944, known as the "Hunger Winter". On 5 May 1945, the whole country was finally liberated by the total surrender of all German forces. Now you all know why he thinks the way he does, in other words, he's not capable to remotely understand your points of views, I feel sorry for him but, this makes me appreciate being born in the USA even more ! | ||
| Airbozo |
"That simply isn't true. " Well, the R's were labeled the "Party of NO" for a reason. Although it was mainly the Tea Party that garnered that nickname. I predict that label will now be given to the D's. Just watch. | ||
| Falloutnl |
"That simply isn't true. But if you want to keep oversimplifying the world in terms of black and white and buying into every oversimplified narrative thrown in front of you, and enjoy being played the fool, that's your business." I don't know man. I'm seeing a lot of oversimplifications in this thread and not all of them are coming from me either. But it's probably best if I respectfully take my leave. If I ever need your guys' help, I really hope you're not about to start quoting me the wrong tq. numbers for instance :P. "Falloutnl is a product of this, I am repeating it just encase he missed it. " That's a really weird thing to keep saying to me, especially considering the US just voted in a man that openly advocated the mass deportation of certain groups from the country, based on religion, based on ethnicity. I mean, that does kinda remind you of something, doesn't it? No more replies from me after this. We'll see how things are after 4 years of Trump. Time will tell. Peace. (Message edited by falloutnl on January 19, 2017) | ||
| Reindog |
Hi falloutnl, I have been a voyeur but I have been enjoying your posts so I hope you will reconsider. Pay no attention to the bomb throwers, both left and right, on the BWBT threads. Most contributors here, including yourself, are educated, thoughtful, kind, and opinionated. That is a good thing. | ||
| Hootowl |
"openly advocated the mass deportation of certain groups from the country, based on religion, based on ethnicity" Citations please. All I've heard him say is that we need to kick out the criminal illegal aliens and screen immigrants from terror supporting countries better, and perhaps have a moratorium on immigrants from said countries until we can get our shit together enough to perform such a screening. I realize that what the left heard was "I hate Hispanics and Muslims", but that's not what he said. It's funny, in a non-funny way...the left made up a bunch of lies about the man, and then forgot they made them up, and are now freaking out about the stuff they made up. No, I'm sorry, that's not it. The left made up a bunch of lies, the water carriers in the press repeat them daily, give air time to butt hurt protesters, and the low information voters suck it up like it's the truth. I haven't seen a disinformation campaign like this since the cold war. The "Hillary didn't do anything wrong" campaign is a close second. | ||
| Hootowl |
There also seems to be a movement to tie apprehensive uncertainty to his election. U2 is delaying their album, because they need to reevaluate it in light of Trump's presidency. Examples daily in the news...things unrelated to the office of the president, and yet there is an effort to tie their misfortune or uncertainty about the future to Trump. Sickening, and apparently planned. It can't be a coincidence. The really sick part is that the people they claim to represent believe all this crap and it scares the crap out of them. | ||
| Njloco |
What's the matter, the truth hurts, if your going to dish it out, from another country, then you must be able to take it, especially when you yourself say you can't understand it. Reindog, I have no doubt that you are a voyeur, after all, there are a lot of them in California. (Message edited by njloco on January 19, 2017) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I hope you don't leave, and I mean that honestly and sincerely. The older I get, the more I realize that big issues are hard and complicated because they are, well, hard and complicated, and big. Glad I could help you all out with that observation. I got tired of the right making stuff up, it was unhelpful. And I'm tired of the left making stuff up, it was unhelpful. And I am a little mad at myself for some of my own historical "it's easy and you are stupid" behavior in the past. It isn't, and you aren't. For example healthcare. It was jacked up before Obamacare. It is jacked up now. I don't know if it is jacked up worse or better, more people are covered, but the coverage comes from debt we are pouring on our children (medicare expansion) and just stirring the pot of who are winners and losers. And a large majority of the new people covered aren't really covered, because their deductable expenses will be more than their medical expenses, meaning they are paying insurance they don't get to use, meaning they might as well have had catastophic care coverage that existed before obamacare, which would have been a much simpler thing to just require people buy. And my beef with Obama is that he lied to me (arguing to me that it wasn't a tax, but then defending it in the supreme court that he was allowed to do it because it is a tax and he has the power to tax). Politics, I get it, but nobody knowingly and cynically lies to me and gets a pass. And it was BS that insurance companies would find ways to drop you and deny coverage once you "won the bet" and needed coverage. But it was also BS that people wouldn't "make the bet" and start paying for insurance until they were positive they would get more benefits than their cost. And then whine about "big greedy insurance companies who wouldn't cover them". Single payer sounds good on paper, but it doesn't work, and if I have to pay your way I must also control your life choices like I control my own life choices to manage my limited resources of time and money. But I find the idea of controlling somebody else's life morally repugnant. And at the end of the day, the real problem is that we as a planet can't afford the level of medical coverage we as a planet need. Not even close. So until we have a race of solar powered self assembling robot medical care providers, researchers, and manufacturing facilities (uh, on an asteroid so they don't take real estate), we *can't* fix healthcare. The math simply doesn't work. It can't work. The best we can do is take some of the "suck" out of the situation. See. It's complicated. | ||
| Orman1649 |
Clearly someone just needs to invent a real Baymax. (from big hero 6) the kids love that movie... | ||
| Sifo |
And a large majority of the new people covered aren't really covered, because their deductable expenses will be more than their medical expenses, meaning they are paying insurance they don't get to use, meaning they might as well have had catastophic care coverage that existed before obamacare, which would have been a much simpler thing to just require people buy. And that's just the thing. They are covered on paper, but that's it. A few months ago, my wife had to have a simple outpatient procedure done. I'm not going to get into the convoluted details, but it was literally cheaper to pay cash at an Urgent Care facility than use the insurance that we had at the time. This is the insurance that was forced upon us by our government. This is after paying many thousands in premiums to be "covered". You aren't really covered if you can't afford to get the health care. I can't tell you how good it felt to get covered by a good group insurance plan again. It's the number 1 reason we decided to work again after our move. Now I'm covered under our education system's group insurance. Yeah, one of those groups lucky enough to be "exempted" from BOcare. That's a really weird thing to keep saying to me, especially considering the US just voted in a man that openly advocated the mass deportation of certain groups from the country, based on religion, based on ethnicity. I mean, that does kinda remind you of something, doesn't it? Pure lies. Make a lie big enough, and repeat it often enough, and it becomes the truth. Sure does remind me of something! | ||
| Airbozo |
From my perspective, the ACA works for people who don't work, but not for people who feel morally obligated to support themselves. Sifo's situation is one example of the system not working for those that want to be involved in supporting themselves. I have a good friend that refuses to get a job because then she couldn't afford to pay her own insurance and continue treatment for a pre-existing condition. She would have to make a pretty good salary in order to break even. It just sucks that I/WE have to pay for her ongoing care and she doesn't. | ||
| Aesquire |
Njloco, it's unfair & stupid to blindly state a guy from Holland is X. Especially based on WW2 history. This poster had nothing to do with Ann Frank or collaboration during the war. Your attitude is a bad mirror of folk from other lands assuming we are Barack Obama or some other stereotypes. As to the many lies the Hillary campaign tells about Donald, you can assume without a direct full quote it's wrong and deliberately so. Trump's going to..... is almost always a lie the CNN or NYT has been given by the losers. | ||
| Njloco |
I'm a union worker, most of us voted for Trump against the union's wishes. Even as a union our copay medical charges went up 200% for and 300% for others. The company sent out a notice saying that it was directly attributed to Obama Care ( Affordable Care Act ) it's nothing but a back door way to redistribute wealth, take it from those that work and give to those that don't work. They took the health care of 300 + million American citizens made us pay a lot more $ to cover 20-30 million citizens that for different reasons didn't have any. Perfect example, I recently had to spend a night in the hospital due to a bad driver, I'm in the room with what turns out to be a homeless guy that got ran over because he is short 5'5" ( so am I at 5'9") due to him deliberately standing in front of a jacked up pick up truck that was running with the driver in the truck, the guy was warming up his truck to leave and this idiot is walking around checking out the truck ( so he says ), the guy takes off and runs over him ! He ends up with a broken pelvis amongst other things, he has no job no place to live , his wife and kids don't want to have anything to do with him. Now everyone runs into problems in their life but what makes it interesting is how you solve them without giving up. O.k. you ready for this, through discussion he finds that I'm a street kid from a rough area of Brooklyn, so I know what rough times are. I say to him why don't you get a job and turn your life around, he says..........., and I'm not kidding, I like to get high and also drink. So o.k. he's got his weaknesses, but then all through the night he's giving the nurses a real hard time, to the point of making them cry, I tell him numerous times, you'll get more bees with honey than with vinegar, I really try talking with him to calm down and speak nice to the people trying to help him, he tells o.k. but then just continues on yelling and cursing. If I could have, I would have gotten up and knocked him out so everyone else could have gotten some sleep ! This is what our hard earned $ are going towards, it just pisses me off. The nurses wanted to move me to a different room, I told them they have their hands full and not too bother, I'll stick it out. This is why they're so afraid of Trump, he might just get them a JOB, talk about fear ! | ||
| Njloco |
Aesquite, Really, our parents where the greatest generation, what was his, the greatest collaborators! and now he wants to come on here and insinuate that we made a mistake. Your in NY, I'm in NJ, I'm sure our paths might cross someday, then you can tell me what I stated as fact, is stupid. | ||
| Pwnzor |
what was his, the greatest collaborators! That's a bit harsh, don't you think? I think the guy makes some cogent points, given the alternative point of view from which they are dispensed. He's certainly been civil enough despite having some rocks thrown at him. I'm sure our paths might cross someday, then you can tell me what I stated as fact, is stupid. You should be more careful about making statements like that. | ||
| Njloco |
Google it, that's what it says about their history, all I did was remind him. "You should be more careful about making statements like that." Why ? (Message edited by njloco on January 19, 2017) | ||
| Court |
It sounds like an 8th grade playground threat. I'm a Union worker in New York City . . . and that kind of talk could get misinterpreted. | ||
| Hootowl |
Making a thread of physical violence, as you plainly did, whether you meant it as such or not, is a felony. Laugh all you want, but people are being prosecuted for it. So...be careful what you say. | ||
| Njloco |
So, though some of you profess not to be on the left you presume to automatically know what I meant by that statement. Naturally it couldn't mean that we could discuss his position that what he thinks I said, was stupid. In actuality I didn't say it at all, all I did was repost it from their own countries history. You'd have to be thinking 8th grade to interpret that, are you saying all NY union workers are violent ! Also, I never stated that I was a union worker from NYC, you did, try reading it again. P.S.I am laughing, all I want. (Message edited by njloco on January 19, 2017) | ||
| Aesquire |
Hi, fellow union worker who's buddies voted for Trump after being told to vote Hillary. Ditto. Health care plan cancelled because of Obamacare. Ditto. Replacement plan 300% more expensive? Ditto. Tell you in person what you said was stupid? Sure, happy to. Better yet, I'll tell you why. Blaming a Russian born today for Stalin's mass murder is iillogical and just wrong. Was Stalin one of the worst monsters ever? Sure. Time's arrow should tell you no thirty year old Russian had anything to do with him. Blame a Dutchman for WW2 collaboration? Wrong again. Blame a girl from Alabama for slavery? Seriously? Time's arrow. .... it goes one way. Your argument, no matter how factual the history is unkind, rude, and a false view of the world. Our Dutch friend may indeed have been influenced by the Socialist government he grew up with.... but Holland hasn't been run by Nazis since Liberation. Feel free to be proud our grand parents helped free Holland. F $#@ yeah! But neither of US can take credit for it or blame for bombing Dresden. But mostly what you said was Stupid because it did not advance your viewpoint. ( one I may agree with ) Instead it made you seem strident and lecturing. Any argument that begins with the premise "you can't understand" just guaranteed that they won't. It's a common tactic of the leftist to attack the person, since they can't win on facts. You otoh CAN win on facts and all you did was make sure that the other guy won't listen to you since your tactic alienates him. That's why what you said was stupid. Note well I did not say YOU are. Obviously not. You just made a grave tactical error that ruined your point. You like microbrewery beer? | ||
| Aesquire |
We CAN agree that Barry the Weasel was worse than Jimmie? ( I'm still apologizing for voting for the hero of Islamist terrorism. .... Jimmie Carter's Playboy interview made him seem a thoughtful and better choice..... sorry. ) So......any bets on who he bombs or pardons on the way out? London? Hillary? His pot dealer? | ||
| Ourdee |
I have one thing to say to Mr. Obama in regards to the white house tomorrow. GET OFF MY LAWN! | ||
| Sifo |
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| Pwnzor |
You'd have to be thinking 8th grade to interpret that, Or maybe we're thinking we just don't know you all that well yet.  That being said, those of us with a bit more history here have established a comfort level which affords a bit more levity with comments like that. You're still new around here, and the rest of us have seen too many times how words such as yours can get blown out of proportion. | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm sure our paths might cross someday, then you can tell me what I stated as fact, is stupid. I didn't take this as a threat.... but lefty loons sure would. For one thing, I'm too old and feeble to do stupid fights anymore, and my response to an assault has historically been to run away ( the preferred response to unwanted aggression, keeping the range open so you can use the weapons that have splash damage.... At least that's how I play Borderlands.  ) or apply negative feedback more than sufficient to convince the other to stop. That's why I don't ever do bar fights because I foolishly think that once you've got broken bones you might consider a spilled beer no longer that important, but drunk people, by definition, are intellectually challenged. For another, if you want to blow off some steam, come on out and we'll get you fitted for armor, put a good, padded, steel helmet on you, and teach you to fight with six foot ( padded ) pole arms, with some internationally accepted rules. ( so you can play again later ) I'm still recovering from having new knees installed, so I'm a bit slower than I used to be, ( who isn't? ) but we can still give an effort to beating on one another, then go have wings & beer. We'll have a few laughs. Mainly I think you are confusing "you am stupid" with what I said. That is your comments to our Dutch fellow are counterproductive, don't advance your viewpoint well, and are annoyingly like the tactics of the Dishonest In All Things leftists.... in other words, stupid. If Foolish pleases you better, feel free to substitute. I criticize the tactic, the approach, not the man, or the accuracy of what was said... but accuracy of the irrelevant comment doesn't make the comment relevant. Trust me on that. I'm at least the Crown Prince of using too many references that make sense to my logic chain, but then forget to spell out that chain so the true, but seemingly useless, facts just confuse or annoy people.  | ||
| Ourdee |
Hey, If we're getting the sticks out then having wings after, count me in. I think I'm still fast  , just conditioned reflexes . A man does need to proof read when posting. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I do like the idea of politics and pugil sticks. I would love to get some ring time with Obama or Pelosi |
