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Aschem
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interesting article about ethanol:
source: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-01 6-1764-4#Bib1
"the conclusion is that U.S. biofuel use to date is associated with a net increase rather than a net decrease in CO2 emissions"
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

We've known that for years.

What's not certain is how much More diesel it takes to make a gallon of booze to mix in your gasoline.

Could be one point two. Could be point nine eight. It's inside the error bars on most studies.

But, yes, if you burn a gallon of diesel to make a gallon of gasoline mix you've burned 2 gallons of fuel by the time you are done, instead of one.

OF COURSE it's worse for Carbon emissions. DUH!

The only reason not everyone with a functioning brain knows this is that there is LOT of effort put into persecuting people that point out reality in a world of massive cons. The same techniques used by the greatest mass murderers in the history of mankind are used to sell you Green. ( not a surprise, it's the same people )

Btw, I'm all for biofuels. Turn that french fry grease into diesel for me, please.

I was all for stretching the fossil fuel supply with ethanol. I was a little annoyed I hadn't anticipated the $Billions$ in ruined machines because rubber that held gasoline fine turns to crud with ethanol. I also was sold on the notion that we would turn garbage into ethanol. Yeah team!

Turning food into fuel is clinically insane and has led to starvation and slaughter. Still does. ( What do you think the "Arab spring" was triggered by? High Food Prices. Look up "French Revolution" and "let them eat cake". )
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Ducley
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 05:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Same here. I've thought about turning grass clippings, etc. into alcohol for a long time. As soon as I read about the price of corn and related food products going up in Mexico
because they were making fuel out of it I thought "o crap, what have we done?"
However, exhaust that smells like french fries could cause me to gain more weight.

(Message edited by Ducley on September 09, 2016)
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Airbozo
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What I find funny, is that everyone had already agreed the price of food would increase, but they did it anyway...
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fries aren't that bad to follow along behind.

Fish, though.......

As an aside, most fast food restaurants use a fry grease filtering system. I'll use McDonald's as an example, since they have SOP for fried goods that is logical, and spelled out in strict order. ( and once upon a time, I worked the "open/close" shift where one guy would clean the lobby and lot, and one guy would do the entire kitchen, clean & setup for the morning shift. )

They have multiple fry vats and each one is dedicated to one type of food. Each night you take an infernal machine ( 400+ F oils, pumps, hoses, nozzles... and careless operation could literally melt your face off ) and drain/clean the French fry vat. Leave it empty. Move to the Pie vat. Leave it and subsequent vats full. Then Chicken. Then fish. The flavors move downstream only. Fresh vegetable oil ( in fifty pound blocks ) is dropped in the First vat, and the fishy stuff at the end is "discarded". ( once they paid to have it taken away, now they charge for it. )

So, it's usually fishy you smell from a mediocre job of doing home bio diesel.

And since fry grease is now a profitable business, the free fuel days are numbered if not over. But the notion was always going to be a short term deal. Almost all restaurants now make money off the oils, it's a business with very tight profit margins.

High food prices from the insane Food to fuel program are a major reason for the "arab spring" disaster.

High food prices often are a trigger for revolution. "Let them eat cake".
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Good luck fermenting grass. You need something with a ton of sugars or starches. Like, you know, food. : (
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 06:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

but they did it anyway...

Sure. What's more important? Massive donations to your campaign? Or how many hours your peasants have to work to feed their families?

Your answer is probably not the same as your Congressman's.
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Ducley
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Of course, it was lawn clipping grass when I started thinking about it but now its switchgrass...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulosic_ethanol
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 06:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Cool writeup.
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 10:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One point for switchgrass is you can grow & harvest it on otherwise unused land. Also Should use less energy to grow & harvest.

I'm not sure how good an argument that is.... I mean it's a major positive, not displacing land used for food crops, but will it actually be done that way?

Hypocritically, of course. I've been waiting for Switchgrass or Algae or some other alternative to become practical. For a while, now.

At this time, with current energy prices, you need subsidies, tax breaks etc. to do bio fuels. practically.

Of course, if the price is high enough.... too high?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089530/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Max_Beyond_Thund erdome
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