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Hootowl
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've dug the hole, poured the ring, and installed the bottom drain. I plan to run two pumps, one for the gravel bog, one for the skimmer.

Anyone have experience doing this? Suggestions? Gotchas?

Here's the nearly completed hole. Its a bit over 4 feet deep in the center. There will be a deck and pergola overhanging the far end.


pond
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Pwnzor
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 06:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've done a few of these.

Are you going to have fish?

Looks like you've got a proper start there, what are you using for a liner? Will you have decorative cap stones around the edge?

If you're lucky like I was with my last pond, you might get a mating pair of bull frogs... you can't really add your own frogs, they just have to find you on their own. When they do, you'll be blessed with their serenades at night.

Dragonflies, hummingbirds, fish, small mammals or any other animals that come to drink from the pool will be hunted by the frogs. It's really fun to watch.

A suggestion: Whatever you put on the bottom in the way of substrate, make sure you have a clear path to the center if you need to get in the pond to service your filter or recover something that falls in.

This is the male who lived in the pond at my last house in California. He would sit there stone still, and wait for something to be within range and just gobble it right out of the air. He loved dragonflies best.
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Hootowl
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 07:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a 46 mil firestone epdm liner ready to go. I do not plan to have the typical rock perimeter. I think they look terrible. The deck will border one side, the gravel bog another, I will have stone between the sidewalk and the pond, and a small flagstone patio on the last side there on the right. I also plan to have a larger, out of pond, gravel bog behind and above the in-pond bog.

Fish are a definite. Have to feed the bog plants : ). Not sure what kind. A few koi obviously, but I want a variety. Also plan to stock japanese trapdoor snails, and a few crawfish. I can go outside right now and find three frogs within a few minutes. They're everywhere. I hear bullfrogs at night too, so I have high hopes for a few to show up.

No idea why I decided to do this. The thought wandered through, and decided to stay. I'm nearly obsessed with it.
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Hootowl
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 07:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I dug all that by hand, by the way. I'm a sweaty mess on the weekends. It's 100 degrees here. Was pretty easy digging until I hit clay.
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Pwnzor
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 07:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You're going to have a lot of fun. As long as you keep the water moving and free of dead debris, you'll pretty much have good results.

Have fun, and post up your progress!
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Rick_a
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This is right behind our house, though we had nothing to do with it.
20140225_152516 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

20140225_152535 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

There's lot of critters 'round here. The neighborhood is surrounded by ponds.
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Xbduck
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 12:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This is mine.
application/octet-stream
1461018800998[1] (25.4 k)

I think it might be a little larger than your looking at doing.
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Xbduck
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

well h*!! it didn't load correctly.
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Sagehawk
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 12:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm gonna get in on this some! wife wanted a pond in the later 80's. argued over above or in ground. living on gulf coast and with flooding possible ,I finally won above ground. also we had a neighbor who wouldn't weed eat, just sprayed the fenceline and I couldn't see having washoff into our pond. thusly, railroad ties, landscape timbers, liner, and who knows what all else. 2 1/2 years to build. size was 8 1/2 x 15 1/2 x 18" deep. 18" wide walkway around 3 sides, then 2' wide herb garden. took up a lot of yard. for starters we bought the liner in brookshire from lilyponds. night before we laid liner in, wife had a dream it was too small. well, that next day we headed to brookshire to exchange the liner. They loaded a smaller liner up than we had bought. Duh! fast forward, plants in, Walmart comets for fish, and a 2 plecostamus. It took 6 to 8 months to get chemistry right. Lilys wouldn't bloom, too much sun, not enough cover on surface, etc. changed filter to a homemade thing out of a Rubbermaid cattle water tank, and played with flows and filtration. we enjoyed the pond once chemistrys were right for about 4 years. then the water mocossins showed up. over three years, we had a 36 inch skin, a 32 inch skin and I caught 4) 18 inch moccosins . all the fish were gone, the pond had a stench to it, and no amount of filtration helped. a friend was over visiting wife one day and he saw one of the small snakes swimming so he grabs a flat hoe to kill it. another year and a half trying to find where he punctured that liner that day. he popped it 8 or 10 inches off the bottom I guess. I pulled cap off and pulled liner back time and again to search for a cut and finally give up. couldn't hold enough water level. enough vegetation had grown to back of liner making it nearly impossible to pull back very many times. so, drained stripped , and cleaned up.
Still have outer herb garden, timbers only last so long and are rottening away, so we use area for our firepit on full moon nights! Still have a filter that you may be interested in Hootowl but it would be for a smaller pond than what you have. anyway , let me know if you need or want some help with your design or pumping or filter needs. I just live in Angleton. that is , if your still in spring, Tx.
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Damnut
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 01:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a small one that has some gold fish. It is covered with lilies and about a dozen lotus flowers.







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Xbduck
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 03:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think I got this time.








Doesn't match right however you get the idea.
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Sifo
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

We've got this one. Spring fed. Used a glacier to excavate it. That's a low effort way to excavate, but very slow. We had blue herons that ate all the frogs. Last year the frogs came back real strong. Even better this year. Now the herons are back. This year the water level has gone up way higher than we've ever seen it in 4 1/2 decades. I'm not sure what's up with that.



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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/how-archaeo logists-found-the-lost-medieval-megacity-of-angkor /

I'm considering a pond, but am still deciphering the local rules. About 20' round. Not a dot on the Angkor water works.... where they had specially made areas to grow the sacred Lotus.
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Hootowl
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 10:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the horror story Paul! What have I gotten myself into? Mine is at the high part of the yard, (such as it is...i just bought the empty lot next to me, so there isn't much but weeds at this point) so I shouldn't have a runoff issue.

Howard, can't wait to plant the bog. Looking forward to the lilies. The best part is, I never have to water them. ; )
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Sagehawk
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Didn't mean to throw it all out there but the post was a bit long. Just every ponds location brings it's own experiences and critters. We so enjoyed it in the good times but everything comes to an end sometime. Gulf Coast has a huge variety of critter that come to these ponds. Bees, dragonflies, smaller birds, etc. Just when water moccasins showed and ate everything else , I had safety of family and guests in mind. We don't kill many critters but I can't go moccasins. We trapped smaller ones and drowned the bastards. No remorse.
Pond was a huge learning experience for us but way too much work constantly. I would have a much smaller one now and still enjoy it. BUT snakes would always be in the back of my mind. Just where we live. Even after a year of the pond being dismantled , we had a 38" moccasin run over at end of street. Full of eggs as could be! All squashed out on street in full view. No other ponds around that I knew of to attract the snakes.
Anyhow best wishes, and I sure would like to keep up with you and your ponds build!
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Rparnel1
Posted on Monday, July 25, 2016 - 09:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've had a 10X20 fed by a 5x10 via a small stream for 15 years. 4 foot deep on the main pond and 18" deep on the smaller one.
Also have a small bog off to the side.

Pond is less work than my swimming pool!.

Have several large Koi and a largemouth bass for population control. No goldfish!! They breed too fast.

Make it deep enough that cranes cannot stand in it while they eat the fish.

I'm using a Sequence non-submersible pump located just below grade in an adjacent pump vault. 3600 GPM and only uses 288 watts. Unless you put the pump in a waterproof box, you will need another pump just to empty the pump vault when groundwater gets high after a rain. That being said, I have submerged by Sequence pump, which a totally enclosed fan cooled design, several times and it is still working. The Sequence pumps use a heavy duty Baldor motor and are tough.

Put in two strainer pots, with valves, in parallel, so you can clean them out without taking pump off-line.

Made my own bio-filter using 55 gal barrels filled with some filter media. I used cut up poly window screening.
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Strokizator
Posted on Monday, July 25, 2016 - 09:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

3600 gpm!?! Got your own version of Niagara Falls going on?
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, July 25, 2016 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Good tip about the strainers, thanks!

Both of my pumps will operate in or out of the pond, so I'm not concerned about the vault filling up. Although, the yard pitches down about 4 feet from the pond to the side fence, so I may run a drain from the vault to the fence, just to keep it clean in there.

My pumps are 8000 and 3100 gph...about 800 watts. I figure it'll cost ~$45 a month.

The pond has no shallow areas, it's all at least 2.5 feet deep, right from the edge. Plus, my neighbor has a "pond" (no pump, no liner, he just keeps putting water in it) full of guppies. There's blue herons there constantly, but the fish appear to breed faster than the herons can eat them. So I've effectively got a decoy pond behind me. : ) I've also never seen a water moccasin there, so maybe I'll be spared as well.

What do you cover your vault with?

EDIT: Fixed gpm to gph. Thanks!

(Message edited by hootowl on July 25, 2016)
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Rparnel1
Posted on Monday, July 25, 2016 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ha-ha! 3600 GPM would be pushing some water. GPH is more appropriate. Good attention to detail!

I cover my pump vault with a cedar "hatch" that is hinged so I can open it up to get to the valves and strainers. Every drain/strainer/skimmer has its own isolation valve. Is a pain to get on my knees and reach down into a hole to access things, but that's they way I designed it. I needed (and wanted) a flooded suction to the pump.

The herons/cranes will go for the biggest fish. They will move to YOUR buffet once you get it stocked up for them. 2.5 feet may be too deep for them.

I've had snakes thru the years and never a poisonous one. If you have a pond, you will have frogs and you will have snakes. as long as they remain hidden and are not poisonous, I let them be. If they start to be a problem, then they have to go.

Have had several large bullfrogs over the years. Massive creatures! Big enough that if they get in the adjacent swimming pool, they can get themselves out.

Also did not put gravel or river stones on the bottom. Yeah, they look great, but are a bitch to clean. They tend to hold the fish muck in place. Nothing but smooth bottom that can be raked clean and flushed easily.

Any bog that doesn't have some kind of fish in it or doesn't have a lot of water flow will breed mosquitoes. Goldfish will live in just about any kind of water. Koi are a little more sensitive.

My water return is a large waterfall fed by the bio-filters and helps to aerate the water.

Had horrible green water when I started out, but over time the chemistry settled out and it needs nothing added now.

Have to empty 2 strainers and a skimmer every week during summer. Once a month during winter. I'm in Texas, so it never freezes over solid and the pump never shuts off.

If you have any elevation changes between ponds, use a check valves in the piping to prevent unwanted flow. You don't want a power loss to cause one pond to completely drain into another
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, July 25, 2016 - 06:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Had horrible green water when I started out"

I've read that that's the norm for new ponds. They all get an algae bloom for the first two weeks, and then they're fine, assuming you have proper bio filtration or enough plants to starve the algae.
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, July 25, 2016 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My bog will be gravel, with the water level below that of the top of the gravel. This ensures that the water runs through the gravel, and thus the plant roots, and not simply over it. So there shouldn't be any standing water for the skeeters to lay eggs in. At least, not in the bog. The pond itself should get enough movement to prevent most of it, and the fish can eat the ones that hatch. The ones they miss can eat me. Literally : (. For aeration, I have two large flat round air stones, and I also plan to put a venturi on the skimmer return line, as well as use that return to swirl the pond. That should help everything find the bottom drain eventually. And yeah, no stones in the pond : ).
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, July 25, 2016 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If that seems like over aeration to some of you, realize that it's hot as balls here, and water holds less oxygen the hotter it gets. I'm going to do my best to shade the pond's surface, but I still anticipate a warm pond in the summer.
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Update:

Pump pit coming together...it's actually finished, just don't have a current pic.


1



2


Leach field for koi toilet...lets face it, that's what a pond is.


3


Foaming in the wall. Having issues with the dirt in the gravel. It's muddied up the water pretty good. Will likely have to dump the water at least once. Should have washed the gravel before I dumped it in the bog. Live and learn.


4


(Message edited by hootowl on December 02, 2016)
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So...I went on vacation for three weeks, and while I was gone, it rained. A lot. For three weeks. Dirt washed under the collar, and into the hole. The collar, in most places, was a concrete beam hanging in mid air, and tilted at an angle that can only be described as not horizontal.

I was a bit upset, but thankful I had used rebar; it didn't crack anywhere.


I spent two weekends jacking the beam back into position, bulkheading the sides and backfilling. I decided to let it sit for a few months to allow everything to settle before I even through about removing the bulkhead and laying the liner. Hence the July to October gap in photos. (I know it's December, but I took the photos in October.)
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I decided to put the bog entirely outside the pond. The shallow shelf you see in the picture is no longer the bog, but will serve as a place to place the lily pots and the pots of any other shallow water plant I decide to grow. The fish have plenty of deep water to hide in, and can also swim under the deck to escape the sun and predatory birds.
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