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Archive through July 02, 2016Sifo30 07-02-16  01:18 pm
Archive through June 30, 2016Aesquire30 06-30-16  06:57 am
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Archive through June 22, 2016Aesquire30 06-22-16  02:50 pm
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Archive through June 17, 2016Sifo30 06-17-16  02:10 pm
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Archive through June 15, 2016Hootowl30 06-15-16  12:28 pm
Archive through June 14, 2016Aesquire30 06-14-16  05:59 am
Archive through June 13, 2016Whisperstealth30 06-13-16  05:09 pm
         

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Blake
Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 12:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bill,

It's just nice to be acknowledged! : ) Sincere discussion of biblical interpretations among fellow brothers and sisters in Christ ought to be most profitable. Ask Martin Luther. I'm an eager participant willing to challenge my understanding and yours too of course. : )

"No longer relevant", meaning irrelevant? Yeah, I'd disagree with that rather grand sweeping characterization. The history of the relationship between mankind and God can never be irrelevant, can it?

Would you say that the parental rules and discipline you were subject to as a child are irrelevant to how you know/understand and relate to your parents as an adult?

Bill, didn't Christ tell us exactly how we are to know the truth? He did, and in no uncertain terms, and right along with affirming the veracity and standing of the Old Testament. No?

Are we to be subject to Jewish civil law and Jewish religious ceremonial law and the prescribed penalties for violating them? James and Paul and the rest of the apostles, devout Jews all, confronted that issue and unanimously affirmed the answer was absolutely unequivocally, "no." And their reasoning was consistent with Christ and coherent with the Old Testament. Given that, they never dismissed the Old Testament, but rather affirmed it as profitable for teaching, no? When brought the apostles message of the good news, that Messiah had come, been crucified,then risen so that mankind might be redeemed, the Berean Jews were skeptical, and so used the Old Testament to check the story and confirm its legitimacy, namely its consistency with Old Testament scripture.

At one point Israel surely was a theocracy as you describe, essentially beginning with Moses as Chief Priest and civil leader too, but then it wasn't long before the people clamored for a king, and thus was born the model for separation of church from state (not separation of government from God, or shunning of God by state as some would have us believe). From then on, the king—Sol was the first, wasn't he?—and the chief priest, sitting on the chair of Moses as they say, were two different men with distinct and separate purview.

What is vital to understand is that the books comprising the Bible encapsulate the story of God's relationship with mankind.

I'm not sure how we could say the Old Testament is irrelevant while affirming the gospel of Christ. We can agree that for Christians (those abiding in the word of Christ) the old covenant has been superseded by the new.

"If you will abide in my word, then you will truly be my disciples, and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." — Christ Jesus

"In (Christ Jesus) are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." — Paul the Apostle

"I come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it." — Christ Jesus

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge." — King Solomon
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H0gwash
Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello Blake- the easy answer is yes, that sounds fabulous!!! However, there will be infinite debate about the minutae of "His way" depending on the level of knowledge or ignorance of the person describing "His way." I could probably shop around for a suitable gay Christian church but that strikes me as articifial and not exactly sincere. I really like your attention to conscience. I think my conscience is my closest link to spirituality. But my conscience is not compelling me right now to convert formally to any religion. If that changes and the BadWeb still exists and I remember, I will post on the religious themed message boards of the update.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 01:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thank you blake, you are correct. Irrelevant was a poor choice of words. Some mix of "no longer the dominant applicable ruleset" is more what I am trying to see.

Hogwash, don't feel like "joining a church" is some kind of universal litmus test for being a person of faith. Most people of faith will, and will benefit from it, but it's the effect part of he cause and effect relationship, not the cause part.

My wife has a restless spirit, so even when we like churches we end up bouncing all over God's own creation. I haven't been in one that would be flat out intolerant of gays for 20 years. I've been in a lot that wants to be tolerant, but struggles with knowing how to walk that out. The last two I've been at flat out welcome gays.

So don't feel like not being in a church, or not even wanting to be in a church right now, is some kind of measuring stick for where you are with God.

Personally, parts of badweb *are* a church, in all the best ways. A community of people who love and care for each other, and who try to be supportive and respectful. I was an licensed pastor in the state of Ohio for a while (funny story, remind me to tell you sometime), so that makes us official. : )
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Court
Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 02:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I guess it's never been an issue with me .... Having had an openly gay leader in our church for years. I didn't know when we joined .... Never much cared when I found out and was more confused with why it was even and issue.

Like my neighbors .... In the 12th floor across Broadway who adorn their rooftop terrace with the gay flags. I've always been curious as to why they feel the need to "proclaim". I keep wandering if I need to fly a big "straight" flag.

I confess to being baffled about how this relates to a sicko shooting up a nightclub.

In the last 2 days .... There have been bad things happen in Istanbul ... Bahgdad ..... France ( this morning) and a kid who stepped on something that exploded in Central Park about an hour ago (I'm guessing fireworks) ..... Nuts is nuts ..... Gay or straight.
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H0gwash
Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello Aesquire- I am biased towards pagans. Wiccans that tolerate gay sex rock.

It is true that no-one on this board has told me I should die for being gay so I happy to withdraw all accusations of such that I may have made against Christians on this board.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 04:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

We won't wish ill on you unless you turn an S2 into a chopper. Then it's war. ; )
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Sifo
Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So here's where it gets sticky. There's the whole "the wages for sin is death" thing. I don't for a second believe that it is up to me or any other human being to deliver that sentence. I don't even believe that it was intended to mean death here on Earth. It has to do with you soul. That is between you and God.

Now you could search out a gay friendly church and you could find that to be a great experience. I'm just not sure that squares well with scripture. Can one get redemption for a sin that they are not willing to recognize? I don't have an easy answer for that. Ultimately, it is between you and God.

You could find a church that has the more conventional view that homosexuality is a sin. No doubt that will be a less than comfortable fit if you want to continue with that life style. You could fit in well if you make the commitment to be celibate. You may find that difficult, but it would provide a pathway to fitting into a church that is following scripture. It would also be the obvious path to salvation. Of course, that is still between you and God.

God is forgiving of our sins. All we have to do is ask for forgiveness. The only part of this that I would question, is can you ask for forgiveness if in your heart you plan to continue with a sinful lifestyle? Again, that is between you and God.

In my view, your relationship with God isn't defined by the church you attend. It's a very personal, one on one relationship. No man can know what is in your heat the way God can. All a fellow man can do is discuss our interpretation of what has been written.

I'm not sure where all of this leaves you, other than, you do have a path to a relationship with God and eternal salvation. That salvation is freely offered. All you have to do is accept it.
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 11:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That happens automatically. Completely naturally. 2 rabbits = more rabbits.

It takes a technological civilization to slow reproduction.

HOgwash, if you don't want to consider Christianity, your business.

And, while I don't try to convert, I did admire Rene Russo's portrayal of Frigga in the Thor movie series. Nowhere close to the actual theology, but few gods get portrayed in as nice a light, and though a small role a vital solid performance.

Just saying. You have to appreciate a deity that kicks butt looking that good. ; )

And lest others mock me.. ( go ahead ) tell me you don't think of Moses as played by C.Heston or Anthony Quinn as Barabbas? George Burns?
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Rick_a
Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

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Torquehd
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 01:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I much preferred Sif in that movie (who I don't recall reading about in the Poetic Edda so I assume she's a marvel creation).

In my early twenties, although a Christian, I explored other religions. I tried to get into wicca, but it seemed like it was all just superstition and wishful thinking. Nordic mythology was appealing and I thank God I've grown out of that phase. Buddhism had its appeal but after a short time I came to the conclusion that it was all just humanist wishful thinking, straw man rationale.
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 01:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sif is in the literature but not like the Marvel version. Who is hot in the movies I agree.

Hey, Christians have Ben Hur & many other biopics.

I have to settle for the Marvel version. ; ) I'm happy the movies are fun. Theological accuracy is not expected. They aren't classic comics. ( so many in my generation faked through tests with those )
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Torquehd
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 02:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oh it's been a decade since I read the Edda so I'm sure there's a lot I forgot.

I was also big into the Icelandic Sagas at that time, and I imagine if I were to pick them up again I'd still enjoy them. I got into Nordic culture via death metal (all the good bands are Norwegian or Swedish), still respect their culture and history a lot (shame about Sweden though).
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Ourdee
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 02:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One of my bosses favorite sayings is,"You need to get your mind right".

Proverbs 16:25 KJV

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Philippians 2:12 KJV

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Psalm 63:3 KJV

Because thy lovingkindness is better than life, my lips shall praise thee.
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Torquehd
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 03:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I love this one:

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

God is love, and His love for us is the definition of love.

From Matt 22:
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I love it. I don't always live it, but I love it. I love God because He loved me first.

Follow that up with 1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
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Court
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 05:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thou shall not shooteth up nightclubs.

. . . . kinda bringing the thread home.
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Dpb
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 08:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Court!
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Blake
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

H0gwash,

You seem to have a heart open to Christ, or at least not hardened against Him. That sure is nice to see.

You sure nailed it when you noted that "there will be infinite debate about the minutae of "His way" depending on the level of knowledge or ignorance of the person describing 'His way.' "

Some things are vital, others not so much. The church leaders of the day had Jesus crucified after he exposed their hypocrisy and their obsession with minutia of the "law" for their own self-interest (power, status, and money). See the book of Matthew, chapter 23

Interestingly, even as early as the 4th century, the creed that Christians all agreed to affirm was very basic. Look up "Nicene Creed" and "Apostles' Creed". Even with all the denominations of Christain churches today, Christians still affirm those creeds. So in my view it's really not much different today than it was in the early church. Popes have been heretics, and Christ-loving men have been called heretics and been wrongly persecuted.

It's what happens when fallible and sinful men are involved in anything.

There's a funny story about how suddenly and awfully even the most blessed and devoted Christian can get it so badly wrong:

In one instance Jesus had asked his disciples "who do you say that I am?". Peter answered correctly that "You are the Christ (Messiah), the son of the living God." To which Christ responded that Peter was so blessed that he would become the very foundation of Christ's church and have great influence.

Just four verses later Jesus is rebuking Peter comparing him to no less than Satan, the great deceiver. It's enlightening, somewhat tragic, and profound, but to me also quite humorous as I imagine Peter, going from such a high, probably quite full of himself, to being rebuked and compared to Satan. The analogy to the church throughout it's history and continuing today seems undeniable.

See chapter 16 in the Book of Matthew, verses 13 through 23.

Matthew 16 (NABRE)

Peter later after resolutely pledging in-person to Christ his unwavering loyalty and devotion, actually outright denied even knowing Him, not just once, but three times! Lesson learned?
what do you think?

Peter's denial of Christ

Lots of folks make the mistake of assigning the failings of man to God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). It's egregiously fallacious logic.

As Christ said, "The Sabath (law) was made for man, not man for the Sabath (law)."

We probably (hopefully) agree that our sexual proclivities ought not define us anymore than our preference for food should, or what type of vehicle we ride/drive. You are a beloved child of God, created with great intrinsic value separate from any qualification other than that.

Some folks are impressed that at the elementary level, we are materially made of the remnant "dust" of stars. That's just the constituent material of the hardware. Meh. When you consider that our individual consciousness, even as finite as it may be, was created with the imprints and likeness of the Logos, the single eternal greatest possible being, the omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving, perfectly just, personal mind that "spoke" material existence into being, well now that is REALLY something. That the Logos desires communion with each of us, and for us to know Him is mind blowing. Some people get faint in the presence of their favorite entertainers or politicians. Silly huh.

Watch your back, petition God in sincere prayer to reveal Himself to you, and look to the light. Eternity awaits.


(Message edited by blake on July 04, 2016)
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Blake
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Patrick,

"The Christian vs Old Testament part I'll leave to the scholars."

You've repeatedly expressed this ambivalence or disinterest in understanding the reconciliation of Old Testament Jewish civil and religious ceremonial law and the prescribed penalties for violations of the law with Christianity.

But Patrick, you don't need to be a scholar to understand it. You really, I think, just need to be able to listen. People here have tried to explain the issue, provided references and links to well-written material, and really it's actually very simple, so it's a bit perplexing that someone that is so obviously as highly intelligent as you seems to continue to imagine it beyond simple understanding. What's up with that?

Is there something incoherent or inconsistent in the explanations you've seen such that you must rationally dismiss them?
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No no... although I'm still fuzzy on some details and don't feel qualified to argue the point.

You guys got that. I'm just pointing out that the cults that sanctify lies are fundamentally different.

Example. An individual Catholic priest may be a pedophile, and his superiors may have covered for him, but the Church does not have rules to lie about it. Both priest & cardinal are considered sinners. The culture that recruited so many sexually messed up men is a product of desperation in the face of declining faith, & the cover ups actions of men desperate to protect the institution at the expense of it's own members. But that dishonesty is not the meaning or purpose of the faith.

Like the University of Pennsylvania, whose leader chose to cover up rape and fraud in two programs that pull in big bucks. That individual chose to lie for pure greed and to hell with the children and the civilization that was harmed by the actions of the protected.

Protect the money maker vs. The rest of mankind is probably not in the school charter.

Every word from the man created perversion of the Church, Liberation Theology, is by dogma crafted to fool and influence people to a path deliberately disguised to resemble the teaching of Christ while actually being ( in the words of the former Pope ) a "satanic" fraud.

The current Pope is, I fear, a dedicated member of that satanic cult.

So any trust in the Church is now damaged.

Not because the founder was evil or a few individuals were, but because it seems evil men are corrupting it with malice planned.

Yet, despite the apparent to me destruction of the Church, it's not in the Bible that it act so.

The major mass murdering death cults however, DO have as standard operating procedure the concept that dishonesty to push the agenda is acceptable and desirable. Taqiyya. You can keep your doctor. The NRA is responsible for Jihadi murder. You must be racist if you disagree with THIS President. No one who slanders the Prophet.........
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, July 04, 2016 - 11:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I should make it clear that Liberation Theology is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Soviet Union. The Green party in Europe too.

While I wish the best of luck to Russians, they have spent a century being indoctrinated and oppressed. Very difficult to support a real republic without the tradition of personal responsibility. Ask any cab driver in Moscow what his country needs & you are likely to hear "a strong man to lead us". Which they have today and God help the world from these cults of personality.

China is worse with a cultural memory of war lords vs. Empires and less than zero respect for the masses by the glorious leaders.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 02:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3673288/Ex ecutioner-brings-scimitar-ISIS-murder-man-mocking- Islam-Syrian-stronghold-Raqqa.html
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Ferris_von_bueller
Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 09:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Aesquire, which is why I've been pessimistic about the state of the world going forward even without Islamic extremism.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Periodically the most corrupt capitals & their empires fall. Rome lasted over a thousand years. But the Rome of fifteen hundred years ago was centered in what is now Turkey.

So there is hope that when the barbarian hordes sack D.C. the ideals of the United States will live on. Perhaps Salt Lake City or Omaha will be the new center of government while the Boston-Philadelphia & San Francisco-Los Angeles corridors burn in the riots and Iranian nuclear strikes.

Sure, the millennial generation will perish when My face quits telling them what to eat and believe. Sad but we won't lose them all. And the nuclear bomb shipped to NYC as a mobile tv studio for Al Jazeera after they bribe Kerry will be blamed on Veterans, but nothing's perfect. ; )
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 11:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISLAMIC_ STATE_ENSLAVED_WOMEN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE =DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-07-05-14-42-38

A major recruiting tool for Obedient Islam is it's legal slavery and rape.

Men who couldn't get laid where they come from can go to the Caliphate and buy girls.

It is important to understand that ISIS possessing ANY territory is VITAL to their legitimacy. Not to mention the income from slavery and oil sales.

Barry either fails to grasp the idea, or grasped it well indeed. It's dangerous to accuse a sitting President of Treason, but it's either Treason most foul, or the most incompetent stoner in history... Which is not the case. No One could consistently make this series of mistakes. Only malice to the civilization he feels no part of explains Barrack Obama's actions in foreign policy.
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