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Archive through May 19, 2016Ducbsa30 05-19-16  06:17 am
         

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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 06:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So far there's no evidence that food altered to be pest resistant are bad for you. Golden rice could save millions from blindness but it's adoption is delayed by professional doom predictors.

Nuclear power can "solve" the Global Warming issue. But solutions to problems don't keep the funds coming. And nukes have been cursed by the witches of the Soviet sponsored greenies. ( to trash western industry )

Like cloning this editor tech needs close attention and honest discussion. Good luck with that.
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Fast1075
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 07:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just don't see tree grafting as an example of modification relating to this discussion.

A rough lemon rootstock is commonly grafted to (choose your variety of orange) to produce a nematode resistant tree.

The orange upper half produces only oranges, and if allowed to sprout and grow below the graft, the Rough lemon root stock produces only rough lemons. There is no hybridization of either variety.
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Pwnzor
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 07:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Do any of the other nerds among us remember Gamma World?

"Mad Pig Disease"

We are treading on dangerous ground here.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 08:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fast... I agree.

In fact one of the projects for my yard in the future is a grafted & sculpted stand of apple trees.

I don't see any moral issues in plant grafts.
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Henshao
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 08:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Grafting is a Biblical concept, even if metaphorical.

Romans, Chapter 11

...16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
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Pwnzor
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 09:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A little further on in that text, something most ought to remember:

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I probably shouldn't tell you I was planning a "sacred grove" layout surrounding a "ruined temple" in the Greek manner, but with apples instead of olives because of climate. : )

Just for meditation and esthetics. Although I would invite local Wiccans to use it if they wished. Baptists welcome too.

Biblical warnings about arrogance should be heeded.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 09:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Imho the greatest danger is biological weapons either unleashed by Iran or Greenies. Possibly Putin or China's current despot. The tech for that is readily and widely available. A gifted grad student could hack together a Satan Bug fairly quickly.

There is a real need for discussion on breeding our children. I sure don't have the answers on that but do see some implications good and bad. See "Gattaca" & the Eloi from "The Time Machine" ( we are not the first to warn about this stuff )

This new editor tech is a whole new kettle of scary.
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Fast1075
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My ancestors only needed a single mighty oak for religious reflection and ceremony.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A grove hides the naked dancing better. ; )

I've got a home for autistic kids behind me. Just being a good neighbor to not shock them too much.

Bad enough when my yard fills with medieval tents drying out after a wet event. Or my whacking the Pell after work to blow off steam. With a 7 foot pole arm & broadsword... ( my physical therapist isn't quite sure what to make of it either )
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86129squids
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Anyone see "Gattacca"? A remarkably good movie...

A long time ago I read a really good sci-fi novel involving nanotech, with the ability to edit things down to the molecular... wish I still had that one.

Personally, I've been kept alive more than half of my life by taking recombinant DNA derived insulin, produced by re-engineered e. coli bacteria. Generally I'm for the concept of gene editing, but...



Hopefully we won't see any nonsense like this.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/05/1 8/478212837/in-search-for-cures-scientists-create- embryos-that-are-both-animal-and-human
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 12:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The world is weirder than you know.

I will say that the chimera experimenters seem to have a good handle on the implications of the research.

If you can get a pancreas suitable for transplant from a farm animal, or genetically modify a cow to make milk that cures cancer, or hamsters that whiz a treatment for alzheimers.... I'm all for it.

If that offends your ubervegan sensibilities to exploit animals for humans, well, enjoy.

I note the head of PETA uses animal produced insulin. If those mass puppy killers can enjoy their hypocrisy and sleep at night, so can you.

I don't see this as a threat to mankind.

OTOH I really hate mosquitoes. ; )
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 02:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

86129squids... the Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson is a great sci-fi nanotech read (with a really odd tangent in the middle).
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Pwnzor
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 02:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just picked up The Never Hero: The Chronicles of Jonathan Tibbs, Book 1 by T. Ellery Hodges

It's a little off-genre for my normal reading, but reviews are very good and I like to mix it up a bit.
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Matt. I'm always looking for a good read. Amazoned it.

I'm in the middle of three other multi-volume series, two by the same author. Wish he'd stay focused and get one done before starting another.
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Thumper74
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 06:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As far as parasites... mosquitos and fleas.

I was talking with a co-worker recently and we were curious about what role the mosquito plays in the ecosystem. Food to animals was our first answer, but apparently they are found to make up well under 10% of fish diets. Most experts agreed that you could eliminate them without causing any grief in their ecosystems.
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Thumper74
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Also, Neal Stephenson for the win! Loved Cryptonomicon
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Most experts agreed that ... "

Like I said, arrogance, as is usual with so-called "experts."

Bats are one of the major consumers of mosquitoes.

A lack of imagination is the cause of many human induced catastrophes. From the Dust Bowl, to the Great Depression, to the Verrazano Narrows bridge, to Apollo 1, to both space shuttle disasters, to Iraq, to New Orleans under Katrina, to Fukashima, to the 2008 financial crisis/recession, to Honey Bee decline, to... The list is near endless.

Fleas in their larval stage are prey to other animals that live in the soil and transmit other parasites to other animals.

Tread very carefully.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 10:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ah! The old "nature is more complex than we can understand" argument.

Yep. True.

In a recent novel "The Goliath Stone" by Larry Niven the "villain" releases a plague that sterilizes all the sheep.

Sheep are a major cause of desertification and the intent was good. The villain had plans to exploit & fix the economic issues of a large number of folk dependent on sheep. He also didn't care who he upset. Now, only in a novel with a genius villain and made up technology can you get away with such tampering.

In an earlier novel "Legacy Of Herot" Niven and Pournelle have the first interstellar colony make a grievous mistake in understanding their new world's ecology. Highly recommended.

If you'll excuse me I'm going to pour a bowl of GMO produced pesticide grown preservatives laden cereal. I think Apple Jacks.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2016 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

On the positive side, scientists were able to use this technique to target and remove the HIV virus from DNA in scaled up testing on animal organs.

Not solved yet, but promising.

Remember that virus's work by injecting their own DNA in place of a cells normal DNA and turning it into a little virus factory. So every virus is already a little reckless and amoral virus engineer. Not to say we shouldn't be incredibly careful, but it's not like what we would be doing is much different from what a cold virus does every day.
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