| Author | Message | ||
     Ferris_von_bueller |
Feasible for a motorcycle? | ||
| 86129squids |
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| Reepicheep |
A magnetically controlled valve? Sure. Magnetic suspension? That's a more interesting question. You could do some pretty cool custom damping. You could even make the bike anticipate and hop over things. | ||
| Malott442 |
Feasible? ANYTHING is feasible. The next question to ask is: Is it practical? Is it cost effective? Is it durable? I would be interested to see if it would be applicable with touring bikes. Loose and comfy until sudden dampening is needed (road hazard, emergency maneuver, panic brake). (Message edited by malott442 on April 16, 2016) | ||
| Hootowl |
Adaptive suspension works pretty well on cars. I don't see why it wouldn't work on a bike. Might even help with diving under breaking. There have been a lot of things tried over the years to counter that, none any more funky than stuffing iron filings in your fork tubes. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Anything that makes the motorcycle more complicated, less reliable, harder to repair or maintain, expensive and / or heavier is not a desirable addition to a motorcycle. If this is hard to understand or maybe you want too argue the point, wait until your self adjusting, computer controlled wiz bang suspension leaves you a pedestrian where there is no cell phone signal and it's 117 degrees with no shade at all. Anywhere. Only heat waves out to the horizon in any direction. Then decide whether it might be better to maybe just go ahead and use a screwdriver instead. | ||
| Snacktoast |
Anyone know what type of system Ducati uses on their high zoot Panigale? | ||
| Hootowl |
I guess you should retrofit all of your bikes with carburetors. Nothing complicated about an electromagnet. ECMs have proven to be very reliable. No reason to believe the computer that controls the suspension wouldn't be. | ||
| Aesquire |
Mercedes, Cadillac, Ferrari. ..... all use.the Cadillac designed system iirc. Notice none of the above is cheap. Expect $5k for a bike's suspension. Half that if you're talking Honda production numbers. The high end setups actually freeze the shock for an instant to keep the wheel from falling into a pothole. The computer is a big jump up from your ignition system. But it can be pretty reliable. The associated sensors will be the trouble points. Can be done. Will be available. Will cost more. But so do decent adjustable shocks. I would expect it on Gold Wings and BMW's first. I would have to be convinced to spend the bucks. Not saying I wouldn't ever, but I'd avoid the first year. | ||
| Ourdee |
The bike I rode between the Uly and the Scg for 15,000 miles had a carburetor. It also started without a jump after sitting for a day in -22 degree weather. At this point I am happy with screw driver adjustable suspension. $5,000.oo is a lot of loot to fix something that isn't broken. I would like a button to make the bike lower at both ends, then jump. That would be some funny stuff with out a drive shaft. | ||
| Aesquire |
I may be pessimistic on pricing... after the bleeding edge early stuff it will get cheaper. After all, anti-lock braking is still not standard on motorcycles, but it is more and more accepted. Back in my youth, anti-lock braking was actually ILLEGAL on heavy trucks, Semi's etc. because the first gen systems failure mode left you with no brakes at all. ( it was adopted, like disc brakes, from airplane tech. ) I thought just a few years ago that traction control systems were strictly unlimited budget race bike items. Cars don't have the lean angle complexity and the manufacturers had a hard time getting the systems to work at all, but then the bikes started winning. Easing the workload of a rider can, and does, make the difference in competition. Yes, some riders complained about giving up manual control of every aspect of the art of riding. People complained about anti-lock brakes too. A skilled driver can stop faster with manual control than with electronics. But that small performance gap got smaller, and honestly the vast majority of people can't stop faster and shorter and safer than even the early anti-lock systems. My '09 VW has traction control. I pride myself on being an experienced winter driver, and have, when stuck in deep snow, disabled the traction control to allow moves the computer won't allow. Most of the time when it kicks in, it's because I came into a turn too fast on mixed snow and ice. I feel the twitch as the tires let go, but usually before I make the corrective action the car does it for me. Does a pretty good job. It's a determinedly teutonic computer, and indeed has it's soul deeply etched with authoritarian principals. It allows me to shift, or accelerate only as much as is predetermined to be good for me. Naturally, the best aftermarket tuner boxes let you switch off, or modify, some of the limits. I spend several minutes every year "doing donuts" in an icy parking lot. That's to refresh my muscle memory, and program my skills for the vehicles I drive. I don't just do donuts. ( often not at all ) I deliberately start the vehicle sliding, and practice bringing it back. Both directions. If possible I kick out the back end and drift the length of the lot in a controlled slide. ( note I've been doing this nonsense years before the term "drifting" was used ) Yes, I have been yelled at for doing this with work vehicles. No, I haven't stopped doing it. The point is traction control is now available on top end bikes. Some don't like the intrusion of computer control, and bemoan the loss of skills such artificial aids will produce. Just like some still complain about anti-lock braking. While I certainly can agree that the next generation of drivers will seriously lack the skills of us old farts when they start learning to drive on computer "assisted" cars that have adaptive cruise control and automatic braking/traction/lane position systems...... I also think it's the only thing keeping us alive in traffic in the near future, since the current gen of new drivers aren't even interested in driving, just how well connected the car's infotainment systems are with their phones. So.... Sure, magnetic ride shocks will be on bikes. You will pay more. It won't be on every bike, since it costs more than old tech. and the Luddites among us will be happy to know there will, initially at least, be a button to make the magnetic shocks act like normal ones. | ||
| Hootowl |
That's unlikely. The valving is magnetic. Turn it off and you've got nothing. | ||
| Aesquire |
not just the valving.... the fluid changes viscosity under a magnetic field. http://www.cavendercadillac.com/blog/understanding -cadillac-magnetic-ride-control/ So the button would fake a normal shock. If the wire breaks? you are back to the size of the restriction between shock parts. Which will be too large for normal, I would think. Please correct me if I'm wrong. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I was thinking about GP bikes and all the tech they bring to those machines, so, I was wondering why magnetic shock tech hadn't been applied to motorcycles. It appears on the surface that it would be a benefit, at least to racing. That's why I'm asking the question | ||
| Aesquire |
It may be of benefit. The question is... can it give a rider an edge to win? If the weight ( and the loss of acceleration and handling ) is less than the advantage, they will use it. Notice the cars using this tech are expensive, luxury/sports machines. The tech is used to give you a comfortable ride while commuting, and let you flip/turn/press a switch to stiffen the ride for a quick canyon blast. With my VW Sportwagen, ( and your car ) the shocks are a compromise. To give me the feel of the road needed to push the car to it's traction limits, I get a car that talks to me all the time. But it's not the full harsh feel every pebble suspension used by the folk who race. It's also not the sip your coffee and ignore the crappy road suspension on my Dodge Caravan. Going from the German Sporty toy to the American Grocery hauler is instructive. The Caravan feels vague. There's enough road feel to more or less stay on the highway, if you don't push it, and the steering is full on power assist to reduce fatigue. The VW, in contrast, has good feedback through the wheel and the ride lets me tell if I've run over a dime or a nickel. Aftermarket shocks would let me tell if it's a dime or a penny. This equals a ride that your grandmother, or the hipster going to Starbucks, would find busy, harsh, and uncomfortable. So you will see magnetic ride control on luxury machines. You will see them on race bikes only if it cuts time off laps. I think that's probable, but comfort is not really a feature on machines that require athletic movement and a hideously uncomfortable jockey style tuck position. You may see magnetic ride on a GSXR before it's on GP bikes... as a trickle down from the Touring machines. | ||
| Hootowl |
The valving is magnetic precisely because of the fluid. I see what you're saying. The button simulates a dumb shock. The premise was, what happens if the computer breaks and leaves you stranded. Not the same scenario. I rather agree that the initial market for motorcycle applications is likely sport touring. Would be pretty cool. | ||
| Aesquire |
The premise was, what happens if the computer breaks and leaves you stranded. If you get rid of the springs, yes, stranded. If it's just the shocks, you should be able to get home.... just bouncy like your shocks were very shot. Very, very, shot. | ||
| Ourdee |
Like the boat of a car one of my alky uncle drove through the mountains of East Tennessee when I was 10 or 11. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
I see this going on touring bikes, like a Goldwing, before race bikes. Bose has the technology, all that would need to be done is figure out how to apply it. It's not cheap, These seats are in the$10k range... http://www.boseride.com/seat-suspension-system | ||
| Ourdee |
Just like noise canceling headphones for your rump. | ||
| Hootowl |
"noise canceling headphones for your rump" Silent but deadly  Yes. That was a fart joke. |
