| Author | Message | ||
     Torquehd |
Self taught welder in need of some advice. I have a nice Miller 211 (110/220 MIG) that I tinker with occasionally. Although it can run 220, I only have 110 in my shop. I need to do some good welds on my axle, which has 1/2" wall thickness. I want to ensure that I'm getting good penetration but I know 110 is only supposed to be good for 3/16". As I understand, that means in a single pass. I've tried to research welding multiple passes but there's not much information on it online, that I've been able to find. The one video I found was by I think a high school kid. He said to first lay a straight bead, then run a "C" bead over it, then run a third bead, in a larger "C". Any advice on this? Question number 2 - what are the signs of good penetration? All that i know is gathered from youtube and forums, here's what I look for in my welds - 1. A nice shallow slope on the edge of the weld (like a ramp rather than a bubble with a "cleavage furrow" 2. The puddle seems to soak into the surface of the metal 3. Bluing 1/2" or so away from the sight of the welds always seems to be an indicator. I was tinkering tonight with some 3/8" scrap, the weld I thought had the best pen is the top left - I layed down two straight beads side-by-side, then ran a "C" large enough to cover them and soak down into the work surface.  PLEASE help me improve my understanding of welds and penetration, if you have any experience in this field! Thank you in advance! | ||
| Ducbsa |
The cleavage furrow is bad, for sure. | ||
| Ourdee |
This may give a clue or two. | ||
| Torquehd |
That is helpful, thanks Ourdee. | ||
| Ourdee |
I like stick for heavy stuff. I prefer welding as an avocation. When I was young someone said to make my hobbies my profession and I would always be happy. All that really did was ruin the enjoyment of my hobbies. I get more enjoyment from learning a new job. I like teaching others what I have learned and setting them up for success by helping them with their mind set. If they can get how important the customer is, half the battle is won. What a side track this thought has become. | ||
| Griffmeister |
A 110 MIG welder is not going to have enough amps for good penetration in heavy metal. You did not say what wire size you are using but I am guessing either .027 or .030, and are you using gas or flux core? I'm with Ourdee, stick is the way to go for strong welds unless you have a larger MIG that can use gas or dualshield in .045 or larger wire. Of course, if you're putting on something that's nonstructural, then go ahead with the little MIG. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I have a Miller 211 at work. I use it to fab stands, racks, brackets, cages, etc from mild steel. The metal ranges from 16ga to 3/8". Some tips. Hook up a 240 volt circuit to run it on. Flip open the door and follow the chart for wire speed and metal thickness for the size and type of wire you are using. It will get you in usable feed rate and current settings. I mainly use .024 wire, but it will, with the correct tip run .030 wire. Use 75/25 argon/co2 for mild steel. If you weld mostly indoors, an automatic helmet makes it easy to set your start position. They don't work well outdoors unless you add a rear drape. And practice makes perfect. Push the bead except on vertical down. The machine comes with a good flow regulator. The metal must be clean. Mill oil on new metal can be removed with some brake cleaner and a rag. Just make sure and give it a few minutes to air out before welding. I have had good luck single pass on up to 1/4". Thicker may need a root pass. A good soft set of TIG gloves give you good feel. Be sure to wear sleeves, especially if you ever buy a spool gun for aluminum and run pure argon or helium. You get hard x-rays and UV C, and it will fry your skin in a very bad way. | ||
| Etennuly |
You need more amperage. We call those 'rope' welds. For a better test form a ninety degree angle with two pieces of scrap. Weld the inside corner using a smaller less rope like pass. Do this pass on your highest amp setting and about 75 percent wire feed. Move faster trying to not build up the rope. See if you can break it apart. Regardless, you will need 230V power for this welding on the axle. Maybe do a smooth small single pass and take it to a shop where they could do a power pass in a couple of minutes. ? | ||
| Torquehd |
Thank you for the input everyone. I didn't realize (my) MIG was that limited. If the general consensus for welding thick steel is stick, what would you look at if you were going to buy a stick welder? I see several welders that are stick/TIG which sounds like a good deal. I did a little youtube research on stick lastnight, I have zero experience with it. Those pipe welding videos are pretty information dense (for this dumb redneck), there's so much more technique involved than I realized. Maybe someday I'll be able to take a welding class. Edit - google doesn't know what a rope weld is (or i'm just not using the right verbage). Is it a rope because it looks "braided"? Is that a bad thing? (Message edited by torquehd on March 28, 2016) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I use Oxyacetylene for thick welds also. I scored a cheap old setup at an estate sale, then replaced the hoses, and hustled to find a way to get tanks without title refilled (Tractor Supply, you pay a $30 inspection fee for the first exchange, then can exchange normally with them after that). That lets you bend and cut also. I combine that with a cheapie Lincoln 120v MIG flux core. Since I got the Lincoln, I barely touch the gas setup, but it's there if I need it. On the bigger stock, the MIG is often still plenty. It isn't as strong as it could be, but if I can hit it from both sides, it's insanely strong anyway. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I picked up an old Lincoln 220V stick welder on Craigslist for ~$50 a couple of years ago. It's probably 50 years old but is in decent shape and works fine. I wired it up to fit my dryer plug (we have a gas dryer now and weren't using it). My welding skills are limited- I can do OK if the heat's set correctly and I'm welding horizontally, but I've done two successful weld repairs with it that more than paid for it. This is an AC machine. I understand DC machines, which are likely harder to find and significantly more expensive, produce better results plus you can reverse the polarity to work better for certain types of welds. | ||
| D_adams |
A ropey weld looks exactly like that, a rope. No penetration, it's just laying on top of the base metal. That 211 Miller will do just fine if you use 220 volts input. You may need to weave the puddle back and forth a bit to fill the material in that you're welding, worst case would be 3 passes (root and 2 fill passes) based on wire thickness. .030" wire is common. If gas is an option for you instead of flux core, use it. The weld will be better in every respect. To me, the flux core is only good for field welding where it's windy. If it's calm or you're welding indoors, use shielding gas instead with solid wire. I don't currently own a MIG welder, but that 211 would be my first choice for an inexpensive starter type welder. Most of the ones I've used were much more industrial in size and had much greater capacity. There are many images of bad welds out there, mine are probably included in them somewhere. https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/article-libr ary/miggmaw-101-setting-the-correct-parameters Figure 3 is what I would call a ropey weld. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I was originally trained on a stick welder. I regularly burned the bottoms of shirt pockets out welding overhead. I hate it. I hate the slag chipping. I never use a stick anymore except the rare need for low hydrogen welds. I weld aluminum with a spool gun on my 211 using argon. I weld stainless using tri-mix. I had a TIG machine, an old water cooler Miller that I loved. It got stolen. 5 to 300 amps. It would weld .020 aluminum perfectly. If I get another tig, it will be a Hobart inverter unit. A friend welds food grade stainless piping with his, and it is the size of a lunchbox. I also have a 350 amp Miller power supply with a spool gun that will lay some serious bead, and an old A/C 250 amp machine with a tube operated hi freq unit from 1956 that still works fine. I used to love welding. Now I do it if I have to. COPD and fumes do not play happy. | ||
| Etennuly |
I have a millermatic 250. I have a spool gun for stailess and alum. Steel wire through the wip. I generally use 0.030 switching up to 0.040 for heavier stuff. The thicker wire carries the amps longer and deeper into the material. I frequenly weld stuff up to an inch thick. Conversely i use 0.023 for welding automotive sheet panels. Your machine will probably be fine for your needs on 230v. The difference in 110 and 230 will amaze you. A stick welder needs the same approximate number of amps for the same thicker weld material so it won't help until you get 230 anyways. I also have a AC/DC stick and a DC welder/generator. I always go to the MIG but for welding outside or using special rods like hi nickel for. cast iron. | ||
| Ourdee |
I learned on oxy acetylene and prefer it for hobby welding. At work I use mig., bronze silica with 100% argon to stitch auto bodies together when a panel splits. Stick is easy if I remember to scratch and not peck at it.  When I have a one off like your axle, I hire it out to someone that does it all the time. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I can't weld to save my ass but I got a cool toy... A few years ago, a friend sold me his GE Atomic Hydrogen welder and then died with his knowledge. It's an ancient TIG device with 2 electrodes. You make an arc and get a 7500 degree Hydrogen flame. Like oxyacetylene on steroids.  | ||
| Greg_e |
OK, can I shift the topic. Take a low end 110 volt flux core welder. Is it possible to get thinner than 0.030 flux core and weld autobody panels? I know it is way easy to burn through because heat control is primitive (I have like 6 or 8 different steps). Would a backing tape help prevent (or fill in) the burn through spots? | ||
| Reepicheep |
That is cool as heck. Wikipedia says it fell out of favor because of cheap and widely available inert gasses. But that doesn't make sense... as electricity is even cheaper and more widely available. So there must be a reason it fell out of favor. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Perhaps the H+ ions do terrible stuff to the surrounding area like a very strong acid? That's really fascinating. I watch "Roadkill" regularly and the most recent show had them needing to weld something thick with a lower powered wire feed welder as stated in the topic starter. Their work around was to pre-heat the whole shebang with a big torch first. | ||
| Fast1075 |
The trick on sheet metal is "stitch" welding. But be aware that thin metal tends to warp. I forgot to mention I also have a 65 amp Clarke MIG. I use it for metal in the 20-24 gauge range. | ||
| Reepicheep |
With regards to the hydrogen arc welding... Duh! Ok, now I get it. It doesn't produce the hydrogen on the fly like I was assuming, it needs a tank of the stuff. There's the rub. You can buy a tank of hydrogen, but it's a big hassle compared to TIG and nitrogen. It does look like a really cool process though. Some neat attributes. Makes me want a TIG welder. Zac... Oh the irony. Your friend didn't die with the knowledge, he and his amazing generation left it for you... and it's on youtube (no joke). https://youtu.be/uZwYMyHlWXk | ||
| Etennuly |
Years ago I had a carbon arc torch that was similar to that 'atomic' thing. I had no problem tossing that POS aside. The carbon tips lasted a fairly long time, you adjusted your heat on the buzz box then fine tuned it by moving the tips together or apart. No water though. It was very similar to oxyacetylene welding as you had a heat source putting out a hot flame, you heat the metals to be welded and melted in a filler rod. That kind of welding fell out of favor because not many people had three hands, and it made a wide heat area that would warp the crap out of most metal pieces. Maybe that is why the water spritzer? It seems that throwing water in for producing H gas would also oxidize your weld. I was taught the oxyacetylene welding as a youth starting in the body shop business in the early 70's. No one had MIG in body shops back then, and we were still doing lead body fillers as well as some joint welding with coated brazing rods and silver solder. I was quite handy with the oxyacetylene welding. When everyone in my area had only stick welders for building their race cars, after they burned holes in all of their header pipes with a stick, they would call me in to weld up their headers with oxyacetylene. Back then with a good torch kit, when I could see up close really good, my hands were strong and steady, I could control my breathing and my body could hold a position for a long time, I frequently made welds that others thought were done with TIG. That always made a young guy feel good to hear. Definitely can't see shit and not that steady any more! On some of the truck bed frames and under hitches that I repair or build, when I weld 1" or thicker steel together, I often preheat it with the torch. Makes for the cleanest surfaces with a deep penetration and beautiful puddle flow from the MIG. | ||
| Greg_e |
Kind of like a heli-arc torch. | ||
| Etennuly |
Interesting. Never heard of the 'Atomic Hydrogen' welding before. I am hoping I can open that video. That 110 flux core on sheet metal question about welding auto sheet metal panels together. I don't know what is available in flux core, I have never used it personally. I have seen my brother's welding shop set up and use it on automated systems. But I can tell you this. I used a DC reverse polarity stick welder for several years to weld patches and panels on cars. Small diameter, soft metal rods, with lots and lots of practice. Along with lots of grinding and re welding. You should have enough amperage to get it done. Find some scrap similar to what you will be doing and practice, practice, practice. Try all of your heat ranges, speeds, angles, trigger movements, pulses, and what ever you can think of. | ||
| Ourdee |
The problem with using flux core to stitch is the on and off nature of stitching. With the setup using argon I have it setup to start the argon shielding prior to the wire feed starting. When the fire hits I don't get metal balls flying every where. Stitching with flux core spits balls prior to the shielding. The shielding gas is the magic. What I like about using the bronze silica is during the grinding phase there are not any sparks till you hit parent metal. | ||
| Zac4mac |
WOW!!!!! Thanks Bill !!!!! Last time I hunted for info was 5 or 6 years ago and found a patent app and a story of an anchor chain maker in Seattle. This video rocks, maybe I can get mine going, it's just like the unit in the movie. wow | ||
| Sifo |
It's a pretty easy job to add a 220 line in your shop. Use this as an excuse, and have it forever more. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'd love to see that thing working Zac! No idea how hard it is to get hydrogen, or if all the hoses / fittings / solenoids will still work on that thing... or if you can still get the tungsten rods that will fit... | ||
| Zac4mac |
I have all the stuff... i succeeded in welding 2 railroad spikes together, everything else turned to a puddle. It makes a hell of a racket when it "sings". I watched both vids and learned much... Z | ||
| Torquehd |
I've got a riddle. I tried welding some cast aluminum tonight. I've welded cast Al before with good success. Tonight, I couldn't seem to get it despite heavy use of wire brush, playing with settings, turning up the argon flow, etc. It's like the wire wouldn't make contact with the aluminum, it was like a plasma ball that hovered just over the surface. I assumed this was wire speed so I maxed it out. And the wire kept ending up falling onto the floor. I ended up getting a wasps nest big enough to do what it needed to do but I'm not sure exactly what I needed to fix on this. |
