| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
OK, I stand corrected. That's great bang for the buck! That still depends on your expectations. For most racing applications it would probably be the wrong choice. | ||
| Etennuly |
Corvette Autocross time! Going out to crank it up this weekend. Almost as much fun as riding the Uly. Good chance of rain.....should be even more exciting! (Message edited by etennuly on October 09, 2015) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Sifo, I am considering a Miata for a fun ride. I have scratched the surface as far as what MY to buy. I have seen plenty of sub-$15K Miatas out there, which right in my price range. What's the scoop? You seem like a Miata-nut. | ||
| Etennuly |
If you all haven't done autocross with your sports cars yet.....look it up. You actually get to use the car for what it was meant to do, legally, safely, and if you find a club to fit your car it will be done with people in a like minded group. In the wet things are different. It is kind of fun in a different way because of how things work and what can happen. One of the Corvette guys who runs about a 450 hp mid C5 Vette, spun his car out of control just after the end timing traps. Top speed there was about 50 mph in the wet, this on smooth clear pavement of a huge open parking lot. He went around and around tossing orange cones into the air. It was friggen awesome! Then on my next turn, with my 290 hp C4, I got to find out what happened to him. I did not hit any cones though, I just did a completely out of control, totally sideways slide,(clutch in - no brakes - could only counter steer.....to the steering rack's limits) to the edge of the cones for about 250 feet! One little hiccup and it would have been looping around like the previous guy did. The day was as much fun for me as when I drove dirt track ovals back in the day. We do 14 runs per day and we did two days. I spun 360's twice, did that really long slide for life, and blasted through corner cones twice having surprise total understeer. It was sideways most of the first day, and as it dried out it got to be more fun.....faster.....there were some slow drying wet spots that challenged every bit of everyone's qualifications. Yep, grandpa had a good couple of days!  | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you want to do "basically stock" autocross in the "I'm just here to have fun" class, what kind of costs are you looking at? I have a mini cooper S that I'll be refreshing this winter, and I'm thinking it would be fun to play in a "just here to giggle like a little girl" autocross class. | ||
| Etennuly |
I run with the area Corvette club I am in. It costs $50 per day to run, $40 if I sign up and pay in advance. All of the money goes to charity through the club's charter. I have seen where just about any sports car brand will have their own clubs organizing the events. As far as I know you don't have to join to run, find them on the internet and go. I acquired some used street slicks from a pro racer and otherwise I just keep the car running well and physically in good condition like no oil leaks or loose parts. My helmet has to be less than ten years old and the interior of the car has to be void of anything that can fly around. Anything else you kind of trickle in over time, like better shocks, suspension bushings and such. I drove the car (70 miles round trip) the first several times that I went. Now I got into it a bit more I like to air down the tires and that almost requires carrying spares, tools, and/or an air tank, so now I prefer using a trailer. Of course towing with the motorhome is nice because the nearest facilities are about a mile away. I'm thinking it would be fun to play in a "just here to giggle like a little girl" autocross class. That is what I am there for! I am no where near ready to play in their points pool. Some of the long timers take it serious. Out of about fifty cars the fastest man was 82 years old. He said he has been driving in the N-C-C-C(National Council of Corvette Club) events for 12 years, he didn't start driving a Vette until he was 69! He has two N-C-C-C National Champion gold rings. That is pretty cool. | ||
| Thumper74 |
Reep, R53? My GF autocressed hers frequently, but rolled it a little while back. We're thinking about picking up another one, but might be straying to a later R56, possibly a new Fiesta ST. She's a Mini nut and really knows the R53 platform, but they seem to be holding their value to the point where they're the price of a newer Mini or a used Fiesta ST... | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo, I am considering a Miata for a fun ride. I have scratched the surface as far as what MY to buy. I have seen plenty of sub-$15K Miatas out there, which right in my price range. What's the scoop? You seem like a Miata-nut. Sorry for the late response. I've been out of town all weekend. Fair warning, I'm new to the Miata thing as of this spring. Real quick, there are four generations of Miatas out there now. They get called NA for 1990-97. NB for 98-05. NC for 06-15. ND are the new 2016 models. All are great cars from what I've been able to tell. Most seem to think the NA models were the best handling. The consensus is also that Miata got the suspension too tall and too soft from 06-08, and are the worst handling. I've got an '08 and it does sit higher and the suspension is very soft for a roadster, but it's still got quite good handling characteristics. There are tons of options to improve the suspension depending on your needs and budget. Most who just want a fun car to tool around in will likely find the worst years just fine. The NA years are a bit down on power, but were also lighter. None of them will really pin you back in the seat without some serious upgrades of the power plant. One of the worst things about my '08 is the cup holder in the door hits me right in the knee. A lot of people complain about this. It's a minor thing, but is less than comfortable for long trips like we just took. In 09 they did a minor upgrade of many things, including a flush cup holder in the door. Mine is the has the leather seats, which many people rightly complain about. They simply don't breath well, and get real hot when left in the sun. I did want the limited slip differential, is only available on certain trim combos. The trim combos vary by year, so it's not the easiest thing to figure out all the time. Click here for all the sales brochures over the years. That should help you sort out the trim options for any given year. If you swing that way, getting an auto trans seemed to knock the price a bit, and didn't disappear quite as fast. It might be the way to go if you consider a turbo in the future too. It's supposed to make a nice combo and keeps the boost on through the gears. I've not driven an auto, but the paddle shift is supposed to be decent. Miata.net is a great forum for all things Miata. There are great aftermarket Miata specialists that can take care of just about anything. Hit me here or PM me if you need something more specific. If I don't know the answer, I can probably point you in the right direction to find out. Good luck on your search. If you want to do "basically stock" autocross in the "I'm just here to have fun" class, what kind of costs are you looking at? I have a mini cooper S that I'll be refreshing this winter, and I'm thinking it would be fun to play in a "just here to giggle like a little girl" autocross class. I've been running with a local Miata club. They charge $25 for club members, $30 for non-member Miatas, and $35 for OTM (other than Miata). They are pretty loose on the "rules" as far as modifications, which can be a plus or a minus. It really wouldn't matter much for the OTM classes though. They will set up a class for guests who have 5 or more cars in their group. They certainly focus on keeping the fun in it and will provide "trainers" to ride with novices to get them up to speed ASAP. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
So when you say "turbo" you are referring to something other than the ESC I have been reading about? Would the ESC mate up better with an auto trans? I had my heart set on a manual, as that just seems like alot more fun. Not knowing much but the basic details on the ESC, would say an NA with its better handling and the ESC for some more power be an option worth exploring? thanks | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thumper, yes, it's an R53, and when we got it it had Koni shocks all around, it's been lowered, and it had the Dinan intake and exhaust (enough to get the Dinan badge). I think it originally had a Dinan intake too, but the Subaru dealer who we bought it from thought there was some problem with it and they put a new stock unit in. Maybe there was an issue with the bored out Dinan unit, maybe it was misdiagnosed, maybe it's now running around on the mechanics car. Who knows. It also came with a racing harness, not sure if that's stock or was an add on. I never really looked at how it mounts. The car needs a new clutch, and my wife was tired of the "aggresive ride" and no room to haul people, so we got a good deal on a Saturn Vue and she drives that now. I have two more kids that will be driving soon, and I have to decide if I want to keep this for them (they sure want it) or sell it. Around here, 100k mile R53's are going for $6k, so cost wise, if I can do the clutches and keep it running for the non stupid money that BMW wants, it's not a terrible choice for a kid to have a fun but practical car, especially if I just get liability insurance on it. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
A follow-up post for Sifo, what's the word on the NB model Miata? I did some searching around and there just aren't many NAs left that arent trashed with 150K on the odo... Realistically, there seems to be an abundance of 2006s around...I am guessing it's because it was a new version that year. It's not too hard to find low mileage '06s for a reasonable price. | ||
| Sifo |
So when you say "turbo" you are referring to something other than the ESC I have been reading about? Would the ESC mate up better with an auto trans? I had my heart set on a manual, as that just seems like alot more fun. Not knowing much but the basic details on the ESC, would say an NA with its better handling and the ESC for some more power be an option worth exploring? thanks I think the only place I mentioned a turbo was regarding the auto trans, so my answer will be in that context. The nice thing about an auto trans with a turbo (including the ESC) is that you don't have to lift from the throttle when it shifts, so there is no break in the boost. It really means little for street driving, but any competitive driving, those fractions of a second add up into measurable distance on the track. A belt driven supercharger will maintain boost based on engine RPM, so I don't think it's such an issue there. For me personally, I agree that the manual is more fun to drive, but us clutch dinosaurs are going to be a dying breed. The automatic is coming of age and will simply outperform a manual. For pure fun factor, I like shifting my bikes and cars though. When I was looking for my Miata, I did have a chance to test drive a NA Miata with a turbo and manual trans. Fun factor was high! There was a slight delay in getting the power back after a shift though. If it really is an issue, there is technology called ECUtek that will provide a feature called "flat foot shifting". The idea is that you keep the gas on 100% during the shift, and the ECU sensed the clutch going in and imposes a rev limit that more or less matches the RPM for the next gear. I haven't tried it, but some love it, some don't care for it. It will let you keep the boost up on a turbo or ESC. ECUtek will also provide launch control, auto blip on down shifts and up to four different maps that can be switched using the cruise control switches. I know ECUtek works with the NC Miatas. If it sounds interesting, but are looking at an earlier model, you might want to check compatibility. The ESC at this point, as far as I know, is only being offered in a kit for the NC models, 2006-2015. I think this is because they have found it difficult to package a conventional turbo in the NC engine bay. Putting the ESC on an earlier model you have you figuring it out yourself. Of course, you may find it's a fun enough car based on it's great handling. Or you might find a Honda S2000 could suit your needs. I have to admit that the S2000s sound fantastic running autocross. Those engines just scream! Let me know if you have more questions that come up. | ||
| Thumper74 |
Reep, that's fair on the pricing. I 'may' have been looking at the JCW cars and confused them. That would be the plan with one we get... JCW intake, exhaust, turn up the boost, tune, maybe a ported head. The rest would go into tires, brakes and suspension | ||
| Sifo |
A follow-up post for Sifo, what's the word on the NB model Miata? I did some searching around and there just aren't many NAs left that arent trashed with 150K on the odo... Realistically, there seems to be an abundance of 2006s around...I am guessing it's because it was a new version that year. It's not too hard to find low mileage '06s for a reasonable price. From what I've gathered the NB models are fine cars. The NC models are slightly more refined, but there's nothing night and day as far as how they work or reliability. On thing did just dawn on me. You are in CA, right? You have to deal with CARB certification in aftermarket parts. I understand that NB models have a good amount of CARB certified performance parts. The NC doesn't have much. As I understand the process, now that the ND model is out, it's feasible for the aftermarket to start the certification process for all the NC years, so they are promising more CARB certified parts in the next couple of years. I guess the certification process is a PITA! In that regard finding a NB model might not be a bad choice. Many claim to put over 200K on their Miatas with great reliability. I did see a discussion where one of the Miata tuners recommended that after about 75K miles, he wouldn't really recommend adding forced induction. That seemed to have more to do with the cost of the system vs. the value of what your are putting in, rather than a fear of blowing up the engine. My 2008 seems 100% rock solid mechanically at 48K miles. Not even a hint of fluid leaks or anything of the sort. | ||
| Midknyte |
http://jalopnik.com/the-toyota-s-fr-will-be-light- fun-and-cheaper-than-a-m-1736022132 | ||
| Sifo |
I took the "long way home" from Traverse City, MI yesterday. Really enjoyed the top down color tour through MI. The S-FR can't compete with that.  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I like Honda's too...I drive a Ridgeline which is quirky looking but functional and reliable as hell. I am looking forward to the new '16 Ridgeline coming out. Hopefully they kept all the cool features and improved the aesthetics a bit. | ||
| Sifo |
Fresno, I was thinking back about what drove us to look at the NC models. One of the things that my wife really liked was how the top operated. It's got one safety button, one latch, and it's down. Well the windows are supposed to be down enough to not interfere with the weatherstrip. Putting it up again is about as easy and quick. Easy to do while belted into the driver's seat at a stop light. The first models had a plastic window that would weather badly and crack. I think it was during the NB run that they came up with a glass window that had to be unzipped to drop the top. Better window, but a hassle compared to current models. The NC the redesigned the whole top so the window doesn't fold, and the front part of the top acts as a sort of tonneau cover over the package tray area. It looks really nice that way. it also prevents you from installing a "real" roll bar if you want a working top. They did add a pair of roll hoops on the NC models though. Some track day events and I think the more advanced SCCA autocross classes will require either a "real" roll bar, or that you have a hardtop installed. The NC also has the PRHT (Power Retractable Hard Top) option. IMO they look great with the top up or down. They do add about 60 or so pounds to the rear of the car, but don't take up any trunk space. Bottom line of all of that, how often will you be raising and lowering the top? How important is a real 4 point roll bar that is taller than the seat back? How important is the style of the various tops? We happened across a Honda S2000 when looking at a BMW Z4. My wife just gave it a thumbs down based on looks. She wouldn't even sit in it. What are you going to do?  Because of that, I know little about those little rockets, other than they sound great when wound up. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I did some research on the S2K and just like Miatas, there are strong opinions of which is the better/best years to look at. IF (and thats a pretty big if at this point) I get the fun car, it will most likely be the S2k as I like the extra ponies and the aesthetics a bit better than the MX5. And the concensus seems to be you can't really go wrong with any MY with the S2K (except the first couple years 00-01). There is a raw, edgy feel with the AP1s (first gen) and a more refined, slightly more powerful AP2 (2nd gen.) I could deal with either and be happy, so I will be looking for one based on your typical price/condition/mileage. Definitely less out there versus the Miata for sure... PS, I have read the top on the Miata is perhaps the greatest functional manual top of all time, so kudos to Mazda | ||
| Pwnzor |
I searched around quite a bit for an S2K, it was my first choice... I love the look of that car, and I'm a big fan of Honda products in general. However, the price tags being on average 10k higher than Miatas and Spyders, kind of forced my hand since I had a 20k budget. I wanted to allow for a few left over bucks to handle any small problems that might arise. I landed on the 2005 MR2 Spyder, and I'm very happy with it. The horsepower is only lacking a little bit, but keep the RPM's up and carry my corner speed properly, I can hang with any similar car in the mountains. When I add the new intake, exhaust and ecm, I'll be where I need to be. I love the top on my car, I can put it down with one hand while rolling at low speed. I can replace the whole thing for $475 which includes the window and defroster, if and when it finally tears... it's the original top, so it's 10 years old now but in good shape. | ||
| Sifo |
It's kind of an illness always wanting more power. Honestly, I'm not sure it would make the car much more fun on a nice twisty road. I'm also not sure that autocross would be any more fun with more power, as long as you are on equal footing with the competition. It's also got enough zip to be a daily driver. Where I would really like to have a bit more power is when I'm stuck behind a slower moving car on a 2 lane with limited passing zones. In that regard, I'm guessing we are all pretty spoiled by the bikes we ride. There is a lot to be said for driving a slow car fast vs. a fast car slow. This past weekend, I found myself frequently pushing past my personal speed/ticket threshold, simply enjoying some curvy roads, even with the low power of the stock Miata. Adding more power will just make it that much more difficult to keep that in check. You don't feel the speed like you do on a bike. If you don't find an S2K that fits your needs, you owe it to yourself to at least give the Miata a chance. I only found the one S2K that my wife put her thumb down on while we were looking. There just aren't many around, at least not around here. The dealer had just taken it in, and it was pretty filthy at the time, but I wish I would have had a better chance to look it over, and give it a test drive. If it was going to be priced like Pwnzor suggests, then I'm very happy with what I ended up with. My price left some room for me to make the car what I want. You can do a lot to a Miata for a $10K difference! You might want to check the aftermarket support for the S2K before you commit too. With the fan base they have, I would expect a decent aftermarket, but they were limited in the numbers sold, so that could be a negative factor. PS, I have read the top on the Miata is perhaps the greatest functional manual top of all time, so kudos to Mazda After taking a good look at, and driving a Turbo powered Sky, the top on the Sky sold the Miata. It's a shame because I was really liking the Sky and the price was doable, but after seeing the top wrestled into the already limited trunk space, the deal was broken for both of us. Similar situation with the Z4's top. I read where some people had replaced the motor that drives the top multiple times at about $3K per pop! It seems the motor sits in a well that collects water when in rains! Rethinking that one, I think we might have been OK with the Z4 given that the care is garaged all the time, and I would bet that the real problems come from owners who park out side all the time. My wife always laughs on a nice day when we see a convertible with the top up. The comment is always "it must be too complicated to put down." The Miata leaves not excuse. Good luck sorting it out. It's only a matter of time... That itch won't scratch itself.  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I definitely have't absolutely ruled out the Miata...perhaps if my S2k search runs dry long enough, I will expand to the Miata. And yes the s2k are definitely more expensive...but the resale market is quite strong at the same time. Nevertheless, I will have to find a really good deal to get and 02-05 S2k with less than 75K-100K miles for $15K or less, which is my target right now. This blue/blue gets me excited: http://monterey.craigslist.org/ctd/5252195916.html This would be the one if it were a bit cheaper  The interior scheme is sick! http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ctd/5258412572.htm l | ||
| Sifo |
One more thing that I wonder about. I know the S2K makes good HP. At least on paper. They sound great screaming around the autocross course at high RPM. I do wonder if they give up much midrange where you would tend to drive them on the street. Only a test drive will tell. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Fresno, that S2K in the first link has been for sale for quite a while. I looked at shipping that one to Georgia before I ever bought the MR2. That Grey/red one is f*kin SICK!!! (Message edited by pwnzor on October 14, 2015) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
+1. I find myself just going back to look at the pics. Wondering how rare that interior color is? First and only one I have seen, but I have only done a search within a 400 mi radius of home. | ||
| Sifo |
That Grey/red one is f*kin SICK!!! If the example I found looked that nice, I think I would have forced the issue with my wife and gone for a test ride. One thing I don't care for with the Miata is their apparent love for tan interiors. I find my black interior a bit plain, but at least it's not tan. | ||
| Pwnzor |
See... I like me some tan interior, but only if the car is money green on the outside | ||
| Sifo |
OK, it does look good on the green. | ||
| Aesquire |
A buddy's brother has a built s2000. Nice car but with two onboard our shoulders don't rub, we're compressed. All three of us are big guys running 215-250 lbs. He's run Deals gap many times....... but with the money from hopping up the Honda he could have bought a 'Vette that would be faster with more room. Or two Miata. | ||
| Pwnzor |
yup.       Yeah.... gotta be green paint to go with that tan. |
