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Archive through December 31, 2019Ratbuell30 12-31-19  08:27 am
Archive through December 17, 2019Tootal30 12-17-19  07:34 pm
Archive through December 05, 2019Hootowl30 12-05-19  04:02 pm
Archive through November 30, 2019Gregtonn30 11-30-19  04:30 pm
Archive through November 22, 2019Ducbsa30 11-22-19  08:49 am
Archive through November 17, 2019Ourdee30 11-17-19  10:28 pm
Archive through November 10, 2019Aesquire30 11-10-19  06:43 am
Archive through October 27, 2019Rick_a30 10-27-19  08:18 pm
Archive through October 13, 2019Tootal30 10-13-19  05:27 pm
Archive through September 27, 2019Aesquire30 09-27-19  10:23 pm
Archive through September 22, 2019Blake30 09-22-19  11:34 am
Archive through September 17, 2019Rick_a30 09-17-19  04:05 am
Archive through September 14, 2019Rick_a30 09-14-19  06:12 am
Archive through September 11, 2019Zac4mac30 09-11-19  01:03 am
Archive through September 08, 2019Ourdee30 09-08-19  03:03 pm
Archive through September 05, 2019Gregtonn30 09-05-19  11:05 am
Archive through September 02, 2019Ratbuell30 09-02-19  08:48 pm
Archive through August 25, 2019Ourdee30 08-25-19  10:18 pm
Archive through August 19, 2019Aesquire30 08-19-19  05:48 am
Archive through August 12, 2019Ducbsa30 08-12-19  02:44 pm
Archive through August 08, 2019Aesquire30 08-08-19  06:36 am
Archive through August 05, 2019Aesquire30 08-05-19  11:46 am
Archive through July 23, 2019Rick_a30 07-23-19  09:28 am
Archive through July 11, 2019Natexlh100030 07-11-19  08:49 am
Archive through July 03, 2019Ratbuell30 07-03-19  10:34 pm
Archive through June 26, 2019Chauly30 06-26-19  04:25 pm
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Archive through June 10, 2019Ourdee30 06-10-19  07:44 pm
         

Author Message
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Ourdee
Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The fire arm should never be Plan A. Plan A should be Intel, E&E. The fire arm shouts, "Here I am"! I have been reconsidering a lot of my plans. I am leaning towards Grey Man. A cane is quiet and can even be carried on a plane. There is a lot of training to be had on the use of a cane. Bug-Out? Why? If you are allowed to have a silencer, how would that augment your choices? For less than $2,000 you could have a nice concealable package in .45acp. Why .45acp? It is already subsonic and easy to get ammo for. Larger heavier bullets carry more energy at subsonic speeds. Sure my AR sounds great with 480 rounds on tap and another 480 in the trunk. Honestly, going home after that ain't happening. That is not the mission. It's still fun at the range. Home at the end of the day is my mission. A trash bag, a stick with a nail in the end, and me picking up cans has a better chance of getting me home. I have another friend going to trial for using the gun. I hope he stays free. Jury trial is like rolling the dice. The only way to win at poker is to not play. I still carry. More than not wanting to have to use it to stop a threat, I try to plan out how to avoid that situation while training to do just that.
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Hootowl
Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 - 11:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


yes
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 02:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've got my "Airline cane" that a buddy turned for me. Helps getting through the uneven parts of the boarding process. Ramps, etc.

Of course, it's just a mobility aid for an old crippled guy.
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Rick_a
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 07:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A gun is always a last resort. Whether justified or not there are always ramifications.

I hear a lot of stories of people brandishing to fix their social situations. That always makes me cringe.

I'm currently doing some optic and light swapping. My Viridian light and $25 Fakepoint has gone to my AR-22, the C-More went to the 10.5" 5.56, and my TLR-7 has temporarily gone the 10.5" until the Surefire G2X comes in a couple weeks (the distributor is backed up).

After the Leupold Prismatic comes back from warranty service, I'm selling it off.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Absolute last resort for me. And the only time anyone sees it, is a) when its already too late and it has to be used, or b) when we're at the range. No show and tell for me, no brandishing, no showing off, no bragging.

And, I carry CCW insurance.

That said, I hope I never have to use it. The last thing I ever want to do, is take another life.

Wait. Make that the SECOND to last thing.

The LAST thing I want, is to lose my life because I neglected to be prepared.
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Hootowl
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bingo
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Y'all ain't really thought this "last resort" thing through.

Eye gouging, neck biting, ear-ripping, general stabbing/cutting and the like ought be your last resorts.

Using a firearm is pretty high on the list when it comes to priorities when non-violence fails or doesn't qualify.
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Ourdee
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would say my last resort would be Dioxygen Difluoride.
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Tootal
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a good friend and co-worker who has brandished his weapon twice and the bad guys turn tail and ran. They were coming at him with intent to harm and he pulled his weapon. He didn't have to fire it, he just had to show it. So many crimes are stopped that way but it never makes the news.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 08:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think there's a difference in definition here...

bran·dish
/ˈbrandiSH/

verb
gerund or present participle: brandishing
wave or flourish (something, especially a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement.
"a man leaped out brandishing a knife"

That is, by definition, an action unto itself with its own purpose. Simply "waving a gun (weapon) around" to show off the fact that you have it.

Which is illegal in most states.

And, it is different than drawing your weapon and leveling it, with intent to fire, but having the offender turn tail and leave.

It is also different than "open carry", or allowing a holstered weapon to be seen.

And Blake - I suppose I used the drawing of my firearm as a "last resort", when I truly meant that my last resort would be the decision to take another person's life at all. Hell - I'm not a confrontational person in general, so a "stand and fight" decision would be unusual for me to begin with, as I generally try to defuse, de-escalate, and if that is impossible I will work out an exit strategy. But, in my personal situation (live audio company), if someone started shooting up one of my shows...my sheepdog instinct would kick in and I would want to protect my herd (audience) from the threat if at all possible.

Churches.
Schools.
Night clubs.

I like to think I'd not be one to simply hide behind furniture, and hope.

But again, I hope to God I never find out.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The nightmare scenario is one where you're a bystander and must decide whether or not to intervene.
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Ourdee
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 10:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As a bystander I first concern myself as a good witness. Where is the criminals partner in crime? The next concern is weather or not they are going to kill the person. I don't step into fights. If you pull out a pistol and the police round the corner.....

(Message edited by ourdee on May 22, 2020)
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Tpehak
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 11:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's good, people can drink and drive their cars under influence safe. That would be unfair if drunk driver has a risks to get shot.

(Message edited by TPEHAK on May 21, 2020)
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Ourdee
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 11:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

.



(Message edited by ourdee on May 22, 2020)
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Court
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 10:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The right to self-defense or to invoke the use of a fire arm to save your own life… Does not confer the right to take a firearm and go play superhero wandering around looking for “lives to save”.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Court:

So long as you don't break the law, it kinda does.
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There’s a fine line there. Where that line is likely depends on the laws of the state you are in. In Texas, I can use lethal force to defend my life and property, and that of another person. Actively looking for bad guys to defend folks against smacks of vigilanteism and is likely not legal. I don’t believe these folks set out to get in a self-defense situation, but they were prepared for it.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 12:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In Maryland, we are legally allowed to protect that which cannot be insured/replaced.

Life, or cash.

Period.

We have no "stand your ground" here in Maryland - we are obligated to exit the situation and/or turn over any material objects, as opposed to resisting with deadly force. UNLESS deadly force is initiated in our direction and we are defending ourselves or others' lives.

Carjacker? Gets the car.
Carjacker with a gun? Gray area...but a better chance at acquittal when you strike back if you can prove there was a gun in your face (or that of your passenger) and you feared for life and limb.

In my situation - live concerts - I doubt I'll ever fire.

Fire BACK? Um...you bet.

And, that is the difference between defense, and vigilantism. It sucks that someone would have to be hit, before I would allow myself to take aim and fire, but who's to say they weren't simply playing with friends, with a water pistol, cooling off at a hot summer concert, and I shot first because I thought they had a gun?

We DO have Castle Doctrine here, though - if you are an unwelcome addition to private property, you're on your own because the property owner has the right to make that decision based on their perception of their safety.

Like the meme says - "That 'no trespassing' sign isn't for my protection...it's for YOURS"
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Blake
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Carjacking must be tolerated, but castle doctrine at home is the rule? Seems incoherent.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Welcome to the People's Republik of Maryland.
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Court
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 02:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Joe Conroy.

Shot a fellow in “self defense” for stealing diesel fuel from the farm tank next to his house.

Problem is . . . .he chased him 6 blocks before he was able to catch up to him and “defend” himself.

I remember that for when I was a kid in Kansas. It was kind of a joke in Kansas where. . . . Like Texas and Florida ....about every 3rd person is armed. . . But even the Kansans used to kid about taking a day or two to &I d the perp so you could defend yourself.

I even had a LEO once suggest to me that I go defend myself from 1970 when “Pilt” shoved the S&W Chief’s Special in my mouth and threatened to kill me if I testified.

My thinking on the topic is admittedly skewed. I’ve always kinda followed my own rules with regard to carrying a weapon.
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Ourdee
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My suggestion to anyone wanting to play "Super Hero" is to go through an academy.
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Tpehak
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 06:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is Superhero Academy?
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Shoggin
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've lived all over, Blue states, Red states, rich states and poor states. I found the same people everywhere.

I carry.
For my protection.
Period.

If a mis-guided LEO chooses to escalate a non-issue situation, I feel the penalty is worth it. (allegedly)

(Message edited by shoggin on May 22, 2020)
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Ourdee
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 08:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My protection? Scenario: Two 25 year olds raping a 12 year old at gun point. How is your conscience? Just asking......
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Shoggin
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 08:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hoo boy. Jeez, no need for that. Other than beating them with my fists and stabbing them with my EDC Benchmade?

My point is:

I carry regardless of whether or not I am in a state that feels they can circumvent the Constitution of the United States.

(allegedly)
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Ourdee
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 09:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I carry regardless of whether or not I am in a state that feels they can circumvent the Constitution of the United States.

exactly
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Tpehak
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 10:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's why we need to allow 12 year old carries a gun.
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2020 - 12:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2020 - 12:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Responsible 12 year olds, sure. For hunting and target shooting but it's a rare preteen that can grasp all the ramifications of deadly force. I'd arbitrarily pick 14 for public carry. ( glider pilot Age )

Age & maturity aren't necessarily connected.

As to the Choice to intervene in an assault? That's so situation dependent it's hard to make a rule.

Simply, violence is only justified to stop violence. Money, property, not justified, unless there's an overt threat, real or perceived.

The Sheep, Wolves, & Sheepdogs view applies.

If you are capable of using violence, then you Must be held to a higher standard than sheep civilians. Just as Law Enforcement Must be. Sheepdogs must.never prey on the sheep, or they are wolves.

The proper answer ( not a pc or legal one ) to the "two 25 year olds raping a 12 year old at gunpoint" is overwhelming force. But if all you have is a pocket knife or are not trained to use effectively and accurately any other weapon you may have, ( gun, feet, car ) then it may be suicidal. Assuming I'm armed and think I can win? Then I feel an obligation to interfere. Certainly to call the police if not. Direct action may be impossible or foolish.

I occasionally remind myself, I'm not Batman. I'm not a vigilante, rich, with an improbably bullet proof costume and a utility belt with tasers, gas, acid, or batphone.

Even if you live through a deadly force encounter, your life is going to change forever. That's better than the alternative.
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Rick_a
Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2020 - 09:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It's harder to defend yourself legally when using a knife for self defense than a gun. Shouldn't be, but 'tis...especially if you're effective with it.

I finally got my NFA items and most of my son's guns back in my possession. She kept his Ruger MKIV pistol, not because she sees any value in its possession or use as a training tool, but because it was accidentally omitted from the divorce paperwork. What a jerk. She also kept all of his mags and ammunition.
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