| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Does anyone know enough at this point to say who's to blame? I think I missed that part. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have only the slightest inkling of what's gone on behind the doors at EBR. I have no idea who's really responsible for how things got to this place. The one thing I think it's fair to say is EBR's marketing for the RX and SX has been woefully inadequate. Apart from participation in a couple of racing series, all they've done is post stuff to Facebook. I'm baffled at how that could happen. Did Erik leave someone else in charge of marketing and expect them to get it done? Were they holding back on a full-fledged marketing campaign until some US-legal Hero models were part of the lineup? If you want to see how badly things can go in a US-Indian business relationship, check out the Mahindra diesel pickup fiasco from a few years ago. I hope Hero doesn't bear any resemblance to those guys. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Using 1 business unit (engineering consulting) to prop up 2 others (Street bikes and race teams) that are hemorrhaging cash is NOT a recipe for success. Erik built what he wanted (niche bikes at best) rather than something that would support a viable business. Either he ignored the advice of those around him or surrounded himself with "yes men." (Message edited by tpoppa on April 16, 2015) | ||
| Noone1569 |
My confidence in EBR and any new-to-be company remnants are definitely shaken. As an owner, it infuriates me that there hasn't been any notification to us or anything about what's going on. | ||
| Hughlysses |
On a more positive note, this photo accompanies the closure story at JS Online. Anyone have an idea who's 1125CR this is? That is a sharp color scheme!  | ||
| Buewulf |
I just realized that you were an EBR dealer Buelliedan. Very sorry for your losses in this. This is bad news for the motorcycle industry, but it is a really raw deal for the committed dealerships. | ||
| Pmjolly |
Now, let's see who can keep their 1190 running the longest. I plan on riding mine like nothing has changed. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Now, let's see who can keep their 1190 running the longest. I plan on riding mine like nothing has changed. It occurs to me you guys wind up visiting HD dealers to get filters, gaskets, and the like. Oh, the irony. | ||
| Noone1569 |
Hugh, already have. Just bought plugs and some other stuff there for my 1190 lol | ||
| Ljm |
I am with Ryan. This whole communication thing has been a cluster. These guys are less open than our intelligence community. If they are hoping for a re-emergence and there are at least several hundred of usout here, plus dealers that they will want on board. | ||
| Reindog |
Guys, Why don't you keep your ammo dry until you actually know the facts? I understand the anger but do you really think EBR could share upcoming bankruptcy issues and expect that to remain a secret? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Disagree. I have seen ads in the moto rags. They could/should have done more in retrospect, but that all costs money. I do feel bad for those guys who were the first to buy an EBR. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Damn. I should have bought that race ECU. | ||
| Mrakz83 |
Is it possible that GE Capital is upset because bikes aren't selling well enough for them to get their money back? | ||
| Buelliedan |
when you owe 20 million dollars to vendors and have no way to pay them back, said vendors stop delivering parts to you. When that happens you are out of business. I just do not understand how EBR could have blown through 25 million dollars from Hero and then racked up another 20 million dollars in debt in 2 years and have so little to show for it. (Message edited by buelliedan on April 16, 2015) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Is it possible that GE Capital is upset because bikes aren't selling well enough for them to get their money back? That seems like a possible scenario. Maybe GE refused to continue to offer financing, which would seem to prevent dealers from getting any more bikes (as I understand it, GE finances the bikes for the dealers, not for consumers). This whole thing could be to prevent GE from demanding EBR's assets be liquidated to pay GE off, so that EBR stays intact and can be sold as a complete motorcycle company. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Why do all of you seem to have this need to blame everybody but EBR for this? This did not happen because of Hero or GE finanacial. The downfall was brought on by EBRs poor business decisions. Looking back at it now it seems like Court knew this was coming quite some time ago. (Message edited by buelliedan on April 16, 2015) | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
" 4. What is Hero going to field now on the major racing circuit? They are right on the cusp of having their name splashed across the winners circle. " They are on the cusp of the winners circle? Where? | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"Why do all of you seem to have this need to blame everybody but EBR for this?" You have to ask? EBR can do no wrong, dont you know? I do feel for the employees and their families, for the dealers who put a lot into the endeavor. It sucks. But who knows, he's (been) shut down before. Some people are hard to keep down. Stay posi, in the end it'll work out just fine | ||
| Hughlysses |
Why do all of you seem to have this need to blame everybody but EBR for this? Dan- I'm not blaming GE for anything, I'm just saying they may be the reason this came to a head now. | ||
| Buelliedan |
GE was still floor planning bikes for the EBR dealers up until yesterday so that had nothing to do with the closure IMO. | ||
| Tpoppa |
The reasons it came to a head were EBRs financial decisions and product offerings. If EBR management failed to secure financing to continue operations that is 100% a failure of EBR management. Not Hero. Not GE. | ||
| Davegess |
Buelliedan is not providing the actual situation. Way more complicated than what has been stated. Certainly we here at EBR made a lot mistakes BUT there is plenty of blame to spread around on this. Likely that the whole story will not be told until after the Chapter 128 thing is resolved. | ||
| Reindog |
Thank you for your post, Dave. I will wait to hear what is actually happening when it is time for the truth to be known. | ||
| Buewulf |
"Buelliedan is not providing the actual situation." I think Buelliedan is just providing his situation as a dealer, which is a bitter one as it is for all dealers. I don't believe anyone would argue that this isn't far more complicated behind the scenes than will ever be revealed. I've seen several deals like this go sour in my line of work, and it more often comes down to the guys holding the checkbook wanting a different trajectory than the original owners / management. Before long, fingers start pointing, heavy hands start getting played and bluffs get called. Things can get pretty messy for everyone. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Another article: http://www.gazettextra.com/20150415/erik_buell_rac ing_closing_east_troy_facilities_laying_off_126 Interesting quote:
| ||
| Buelliedan |
Dave, I am sure there is plenty of blame to go around. But yes I am extremely bitter. I just spent about 30 thousand dollars to get my EBR dealership off the ground only to have the rug pulled out from under me less than 3 months after getting everything going. To not even get an e-mail sent to us dealers from EBR yesterday telling us this was happening and what the future holds is INEXCUSEABLE!! Does EBR think that litle of us that they cannot even tell us this is happening? I was actually on the phone with other dealers yesterday after this happened and they had no idea. How is that any way to treat the folks who are your ambassadors of your product? (Message edited by buelliedan on April 16, 2015) | ||
| Thumper1203 |
Aw shucks, I was hoping we could pin this on big banksters, or skyrocketing healthcare costs/disposable/discretionary cash, or general economy malaise or, or, ..anything but Eriks all out efforts to bring American sportbikes to the market, with other model offerings to follow in the near future.. A sad-"ish" event to be sure, but, what do we really know at this point? Chins-up people.. all is not lost, it's not like events like this haven't happened before | ||
| Sprintst |
So was this the exciting news that was predicted by certain insider here just a couple weeks ago? Why would I would give a rats ass about the hero EBR team still racing? Doesn't matter to me anymore Regardless of whether hero or Erik owns the company or nobody - who is going to trust this brand again to invest their money in and buy a bike? Only 6500 mile valve checks - so how long between rebuilds? Who's going to sell those parts? Not like there are many used ones for donor parts The 1190 seems a lot riskier to own than the 1125 Harley still sells parts for the 1125, can't say that about EBR Damn shame the KTM RC8 is going away too (Message edited by Sprintst on April 16, 2015) (Message edited by Sprintst on April 16, 2015) | ||
| Ruprecht |
Very difficult to successfully run a boutique manufacturing business for sports bikes these days. The market for sports bikes in general is down, let alone high end ones. The people spending that amount of cash on bikes are mostly getting "Adventure" bikes loaded with everything and the kitchen sink. If you look at other comparable manufacturers you'll see they've had a similar history of buy outs, insolvency and changes in strategy. MV Augusta has massively reduced their prices and broadened their lineup, focusing on their 800 triple platform. Benelli has also massively reduced their prices and introduced 600cc (or there abouts) entry level bikes to get new riders into the brand. Moto Morini is barely limping along post-liquidation buyout, and has diversified their range into, you guessed it, "Adventure" style bikes. Even the Japanese manufacturers have largely neglected their open class Sports Bike range in favour of entry level or mid-level bikes (Kawasaki Ninja 300, Yamaha FZ/MT-07/09, Honda CBR300/500 etc). Then there's the issues with vehicle manufacturing in our globalised economy. Look at what BMW, KTM, Harley and Benelli have done with Chinese/Indian partners/production. I know what Erik said about the Buell brand when he crushed that blast, but what happened to Hero's HX250 range and the possibility of it being marketed in the US as a Buell? I thought that was a significant part of the strategy? Aside from the racing (which is a passion, but it's questionable whether the win on Sunday, sell on Monday strategy is still applicable), I think Buell has done OK with the marketing. I've seen their ads/reviews/comparisons in print and online magazines. I've seen the more popular youtube channels and motobloggers getting bikes to ride and review. I think it's the product and (more so) the price which is an issue. |
