| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
I think the natural gas power plants are typically gas powered industrial turbine engines (basically jet engines that don't have to be light). So they can spin up in 15 minutes or so. | ||
| Aesquire |
Typically the exhaust from the combustion turbine boils water.. So you're both right. It takes time to come up to power, and these things usually run 24/7. They do have an idle mode but don't shut all the way down. Court would know more. | ||
| Chauly |
What Reep said: http://tinyurl.com/qzglupe | ||
| Chauly |
What Patrick said: http://tinyurl.com/np2ya6j | ||
| Aesquire |
There's a water/gravity storage setup in the Catskills. Pumped up from one lake to another on top of the mountain, then run down through turbines to the bottom. Usually it pumps at night and flows in the heat of the day to level the NYC power load. Quite the setup. I don't recall the name but I've flown over it a few times in a glider. Not practical unless you've got the right terrain and not a cheap project. Works though. A humongous battery. | ||
| Sifo |
Thanks guys. You can learn something every day. This is a great place to learn stuff. | ||
| Sifo |
Of course, the next logical question would be what percentage of our power plants are the old style, vs. the new style described in both of those articles. I'm sure there's a lot of legacy systems still on line. | ||
| Aesquire |
Obama's promise is to close all the coal plants by making them unprofitable. .with.. fines and impossible emission rules. So the legacy plants are on the way out. This gives us higher energy costs, naturally the poor are hardest hit. But if it saves one life.......... Best excuse for closing D.C. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://arynews.tv/en/nasa-dawn-nears-encounter-dwa rf-planet-ceres/ | ||
| Reepicheep |
Using a lake and a mountain as a gravity battery is really a cool idea! | ||
| Chauly |
We have one in the next county: https://www.dom.com/corporate/what-we-do/electrici ty/generation/hydro-power-stations/bath-county-pum ped-storage-station | ||
| Sifo |
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/walter-cronkite-video | ||
| Daddio |
The downside of pump-up, generator-down hydro plants is the huge amount of electricity that is required to pump the water back up the tunnels; I do understand that the pumps only run during 'low-demand' times using 'excess' generation like a storage battery, the Denmark/Sweden example referred to is a traditional gravity-only storage hydro system that uses weather patterns to lift the water back up the hill. Colorado has a pump-up/gravity-down plant too, just south of Georgetown. https://goo.gl/maps/cpLHk | ||
| Aesquire |
The problems with collecting diffuse energy, wind, solar, tidal, wave, etc. Are you need a very large collector, big capital investment, and storage because all these diffuse energy forms are inconsistent. To take the U.S. solar, for example, you need to spend a planetary gross product, cover Texas in solar panels and Massachusetts In car batteries......with a superconducting cable connection between and beyond. The people who live in those states will object..... so you can spread the panels and batteries around and the optimal locations will upset Greenpeace. (Wild, environmentally sensitive areas ) The geniuses at Google did the math, and it takes so much energy to make the collectors that it's cheaper and make more sense to not. That's not to say wind and solar are useless, when cheap solar roofs finally hit the market it'll be great..... still not cheap power but practical. The Greenies will object, however for 2 reasons, one real, one ideology. Changing the albedo of lots of roofs will affect weather. Giving power to the people is against the collectivist faith. You can see if you look at that the "Mother Earth News" libertarian do it yourself folk are at odds with the "everyone in cities with no cars" hive minders. | ||
| Chauly |
"You can see if you look at that the "Mother Earth News" libertarian do it yourself folk are at odds with the "everyone in cities with no cars" hive minders." I am SOOO stealing this... | ||
| Chauly |
The best use of the pumped-storage systems is for huge base-load power grids, typically Nukes and big coal like Cumberland City TN. There is lots of electricity off-peak, and PS is a huge battery. They also generate power within minutes, should a nuke SCRAM and drop off line (it's usually a scramble, no pun intended, to get the 99% of 1000 MW from somewhere!) | ||
| Court |
>>>>it's usually a scramble, no pun intended, to get the 99% of 1000 MW from somewhere Let me know if I can help. :-)          Doing a 700MW now . . . then off to a big helicopter job till July 2016 . . then to Dover, NY for a new 1,000MW. I could get you a good deal about now . . . if you're willing to accept a cookie cutter combined cycle design. :-) | ||
| Reindog |
Nice pix! | ||
| Sifo |
Hey Court, what are we looking at in this pic? | ||
| Chauly |
A hovercraft...  | ||
| Aesquire |
Is it full of eels? | ||
| Chauly |
Eel no! | ||
| Ducbsa |
Part-finished cooling tower? | ||
| Chauly |
Probably. | ||
| Sifo |
That's my thought too, but was hoping to hear the details. Or it could be part of the worlds largest paint booth.  | ||
| Aesquire |
http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2015/03/05/cronkite- global-cooling/ | ||
| Ducbsa |
We're in the best of hands, if you consider that the head of the EPA just repeats warming hoax religion dogma instead of, you know, dealing with facts: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/030515-74 2253-epa-chief-cannot-answer-global-warming-questi ons.htm?p=full | ||
| Aesquire |
The current EPA guy, has he any experience with, say, science, or engineering? Medical Doctor? Political hack? Ignorant corrupt toady seems obvious and redundant. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/414976/merch ants-smear-rachelle-peterson Editorial about a movie to smear science that does not conform. Oddly all the advances in science, ever, seem to come from science that does not conform. | ||
| Ducbsa |
From Wikipedia: "McCarthy graduated from the University of Massachusetts Boston with a Bachelor of Arts in Social Anthropology in 1976. In 1981 she received a joint Master of Science in Environmental Health Engineering and Planning and Policy from Tufts University." So, not much science education. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/23571 7-climate-debate-turns-nasty After over a decade of no measurable temperature increase, I fail to see the urgency of addressing the problem. Study Climate Change, yes. Does anyone else remember the proposal to spread soot on the Arctic to melt the ice, to save us from the oncoming Ice age? I think it was best we didn't do that on a large scale with imperfect understanding. I also think it best to point out that one, or a thousand, scientists agreeing on something doesn't make it fact. And that when the people pushing the agenda that the crisis of Climate Whatever allows them to push, are lying sacks, that how important they tell you something is, makes no darn difference. |
