| Author | Message | ||
     Crusty |
Indian Scout and EBR 1190 SX Back at the beginning of September, I took an Indian Scout out for a Demo ride, and I liked the bike. I don’t want one; the seating position is all wrong for me. I don’t like forward controls. But overall, it’s a nice bike. The Scout has been getting a lot of positive reviews in the assorted magazines, as well. I haven’t read a bad review of the bike since it was introduced. Motorcycle USA put a Scout on a Dyno, and it made 84.88 Horsepower and 63.53 Pounds – feet of torque. That got me thinking. Back in 1999, I went to the ATC Road Apple Rally in Pennsylvania. Lancaster H-D/Buell was giving us free Dyno runs during the rally, so I figured, what the hell; and had them run my ‘98 S3-T. It made 84.5 HP and 75 Lb-ft of torque. Now, I know that I shouldn’t compare different Dyno results, but what I’m seeing is that the new DOHC 1133cc 60* liquid cooled V-Twin is making about the same horsepower and less torque than a pushrod 1203cc 45* air cooled V twin was making 15 years ago (the S3-T was over a year old and was stock, right down to the muffler; and it had 35,000 miles on it at the time) Cycle World has been gushing with praise for the Scout. They’re showering it with positive comments. Kevin Cameron did his take on why this four valver was better than the Two valver that it’s competing against. (I prefer the old Thunderstorm engine) He expounded on how flat the torque curve was, and just how wonderful the design is. Now, if I hadn’t ridden a Chieftain while waiting for my appointed ride on the Scout, I probably wouldn’t have given the torque curve any thought. But after riding the 111 and feeling a really flat torque curve, it felt like the Scout engine was a bit cammy. It felt a bit flat at lower engine speeds, but as the rpm rose, the engine came alive. It didn’t feel like a flat torque curve to me. A couple of weeks after I rode the Scout, I rode an EBR 1190 SX. To say that the SX is a Nice Bike is like saying that Scarlett Johansson is kind of sexy. The 1190 makes a whole lot more Hp and Torque than the Scout can even dream of making. I don’t have any actual figures, but I’d bet money it’s close to 50% more of both. Any comparison of handling and cornering between the two bikes would be on a par with comparing the KC Royals to a local Little League team. The only area the Scout beats the SX in is price. And, for me, it’s a case of getting what you pay for. The higher priced bike is a better bargain. The Scout was nice to ride; the SX was like riding chained Lightning. The freakin’ thing will go 110 MPH in second gear, fer ****sakes! It felt like it was part of my body. Intuitive doesn’t even begin to describe the handling. It’s an amazing motorcycle. It makes Horsepower. It makes Torque. It really goes around corners. And the ZTL brake works beautifully. It makes me a better rider. It was designed by Erik Buell and his Elves, so it is going to handle like a dream. They are incapable of building a bad handling motorcycle. The big mystery to me is why isn’t the press all over the SX the way they’re drooling over the Scout? | ||
| Trevd |
I think it might be the different categories that each bike is in. The Scout's main competitor is probably the 1200 Sportster. I suspect that the Scout probably kicks the Sportster's arse, both engine wise, and performance wise. It probably compares very well to other 1100-1300cc cruisers as well. For the SX, there is stiffer competition in that segment me thinks. Ducati, Aprilia, etc... Probably all great bikes in their own way. I think the Scout is way better than the other bikes in it's segment, while the SX is probably equal to or only marginally better. | ||
| Sifo |
I'm not sure how you don't think the scout has a flat torque curve. It's flatter than most.  http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/744/19222/Motorcycle-Article/Dynoed--2015-Indian-Scout-Horsepower-Torque.aspx +1 what Trevd said. They are in completely different markets. So much so that one or the other is likely to be completely ignored by many magazines. | ||
| Ljm |
Hey, Crusty, Maybe it is just me, but I think that the reviewers will highlight anything that goes head to head with HD and betters them. At the end of the day, while HD has their own fans, there are a lot of people who don't like them and are cheering on the underdog, e.g. Victory, Indian, etc. The companies that EBR is competing with don't generate that kind of antipathy. | ||
| Dynasport |
I've read several reviews of the RX and some mostly quicker reviews of the SX and I think they have been mostly positive. Not gushing, that is true, but still favorable. They mostly say the Ducati is slightly better, but the EBR is a great first effort. Most think the EBR needs a bit more polish. And I agree, the Scout is being compared mainly to the Sportster and it is being compared very favorably to it. It seems like a very different bike than a Sportster to me, but it is priced similarly and both are considered cruisers of a kind. Anyway, as much as I'd like the EBR bikes to blow away the competition, when the competition is as good as it is (Ducati and KTM make very nice bikes, there's no denying it), the EBR bikes don't. I'd still rather buy an EBR, but face it the Paningale (sp?) and Super Duke are great bikes and a very high target to hit. | ||
| Ezblast |
Actually - from what I have read on reviews - the EBR bike was better than the Paningale because it's power and torque where in a usable street range while the duc's was only available at the top end of it's range - making it a tad bit better for track, but in the real world - lol - not really as useful. In fact most of the reviews said the same thing - on the street - not in the city at which both bikes rated poorly due to heat and clutch (though EBR's latest clutch pull is supposedly much better) - the EBR bike was the clear winner. The only thing they are looking for the new EBR bikes to have is an easier to navigate dash controls, and ABS - things everyone is sure will come down the pipe line in good time. EZ (Message edited by ezblast on October 27, 2014) | ||
| Phelan |
To quote another Badwebber in the EBR section, the SX is good in it's first effort, as opposed to good for a first effort. I have yet to ride one but I will soon (in the RX flavor as that's my preference) and I can't wait  . | ||
| Dynasport |
Ok, the July 2014 Cycle World comparison of the Panigale and RX was favorable for the RX as I said, but it still picked the Panigale as the overall winner. Feel free to read the whole article. But here is the last paragraph (hopefully without typos, but I make no promises). "So our conclusion here is a little inconclusive, mostly due to the brake issue with the EBR. The news here is Erik Buell and his small but growing team at EBR have built a competitive, relatively affordable superbike right here in America. If you have one molecule of national pride, now is the time to be proud we finally produce a motorcycle like the 1190RX. But in our battle here, the Ducati takes it by a hair. Even though its not as comfortable on the street, it has a smoother engine, better overall refinement, and a chassis that's just as awesome as the EBR's. The base mechanical package and track performance were similar, but the Ducati packs more features into its well executed electronics (ABS, quick shifter, engine-braking control) and has just a bit more overall polish. But, clearly, the war is just beginning." The Road Test in the December 2014 issue of Motorcyclist had a lot of positive things to say about the RX, but lots of negatives too. They didn't like the reach to the dash. They didn't like the maintenance schedule, and they said fit and finish was behind the leaders. In his Off The Record sidebar Zack Courts said he would recommend an RSV4 or S1000RR over the RX. The Verdict was that the RX is "A tremendous motorcycle, but our test bike was beset with numerous frustrating problems." The same issue of Motorcyclist did a First Ride of the SX and called it "A superlatively badass bike." Their Verdict said, "A hard-core, high-performance street fighter, for better and worse." Now, to be clear, I don't put too much faith in any magazine review. I have read fantastic reviews of motorcycles and then test ridden them myself and not cared for the bike at all. I have ridden the SX and enjoyed the ride. But I do agree with the Motorcyclist view that it is a "hard-core riding experience." Coming of my Ulysses XT, it was a big adjustment. I felt every imperfection in the road and felt like my feet were higher and my handlebars lower. I'm not sure I could ride the bike all day as it was set up, but I did like it MUCH more than the 1125CR I rode a few years ago. Everyone's body is different. Mine is getting older and I have more aches and pains than a fella ought to have to deal with. Anyway, I'm certainly pulling for EBR and I hope to start actually seeing some out in the wild. | ||
| Ezblast |
I also - I sure do wish they would go over bikes they give to the press = the brakes should not have been an issue. EZ |
