| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
I realize that Blake. Still an incredibly stupid thing to do. I you feel you want to engage someone who is so willfully ignorant, have at it. If you ask me, you will wind up less intelligent for the effort. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Yeah, we do get cranky when rich men with armed guards tell us they are going to steal our property. I have no opinion on such. How could I? But you seem eager to always blame me for having an opinion you don't find agreeable, as if it's my fault you're getting screwed. If you're getting screwed mate, it's likely because your system isn't working as well as you keep trying to tell me it is when slating my opinions or expressing how things are in the shit hole of a country I live in. Welcome to the real world! Amazing someone who shows flashes of sense would be so anti-freedom and support the worst exploitive criminals. You're a dick. "Shows flashes of inspiration", like you'd know and be qualified to judge? I'm more pro freedom than you'll ever be. I'm subversive, anti establishment, and for people power. I don't support the worst exploitative criminals given there's no American politician or decision making warmonger I could say I actually like. If I did however, then you'd be correct. Like Hamas. Why don't you advocate taking away their guns. Maybe take away the unguided rockets they hide in UN schools? The schools they don't build because the leaders steal the aid money given to them by kind hearted suckers? No, Hamas need their guns to defend themselves against the crooked warmongering oppressive Israelis. The aid money wasn't stolen. It was put to their fighting cause since Israel cut Palestine's legitimate supply lines forcing them into untold poverty until recently when Israel fell under the worlds scrutiny for disproportionately killing Palestinian men women and hundreds of children. The kind hearted suckers are seeing Israel in a different light because of its inhumane murderous actions. The support will continue to pour in. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Blake, stop using facts and history to support your opinion. It's not fair to those who use feelings. Absolutely as 'facts' are written by those who would have you believe them when the truth is felt rather than counted on a list. Do you know why? There's a thing in this country called 'taking into account'. One of the many ways the statistics don't add up to the real facts. It's where the crooks when caught confess to crimes they've not committed. Crimes that can't otherwise be solved. In exchange for confessing to crimes they've not committed, like a burglar saying he robbed fifty houses when he'd only robbed twelve, their sentence will be reduced for cooperation. The legitimate yet altered statistics suit the police manifesto and the allocated budget from local authority and central government. Underperforming costs budget! You get the picture? Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Once again proving my point that the UK subjects are barbarians living in a Prison and like it! From my words you came to this conclusion? Amazing. How so? Rocket in England | ||
| Daddio |
They did, but then you can't expect to have America's god given rights rule other nations. Can you? Umm, I read back what I wrote, and, I've read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States, and nowhere did I or the authors of those documents say that the God-given rights were America's alone, but rather all mankind's. If you were truly freedom loving, you, like I would wish the same for everyone. If you would care to join us, we would welcome you into our little experiment of the past 238 years... our system is under attack, and we (freedom loving people the world over) need all the help we can get. Please read the afore-mentioned user's manuals beforehand, though. Oh, and, 'rights' can't rule... | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The majority of the developed world can thank England for it's great contributions to the world............ Good. Someone is smart enough to put it in writing and get it bang on right! Real muslims, who actually follow the qran, hate those westernized muslims that you deal with on a daily basis. The ones you deal with are not following the qran. Sorry but you're wrong. Many British born muslims visit their ancestral homeland and relations therein. Send money there and invest there. As an aside to the normality of muslim life in Britain and to their motherlands, it's estimated several hundred British born muslims have gone off to join the free Syrian army, and ISIS, as well as other offshoots. Welcomed as they are. And looking through history, I count time and time again when muslims murder en masse for the purpose of establishing or enlarging the islamic state. We're seeing it happen time now. They're using guns for war, and beheadings for the purpose of doing exactly what the qran tells them to. they're trying to use fear tactics to accomplish their goal, which is unhindered conquest of the middle east. And after that, they will have new lands to lust after. No doubt there are truths in such, but there's two sides and more to every story. Unfortunately the simplicity of blame does not lay with the most recent uprising of Islamic State. Their story is littered with provocation and aggression, as well as being used and manipulated, all by the West, for a very long time. We've been living in a world where 'we' go to them and do whatever it is we do, on their territories. And we are still going there and getting our fingers burned. Just one of many problems the U.S. face today seeing as they didn't get their intended job done. Yes, both America and England have failed to successfully stop the islamic empire from continuing to murder and take over new lands in the name of allah. Maybe it's not in the name of Allah and it's them fighting back after decades of Western involvement in their affairs. Not least of all warfare, bombing, and drone strikes. Accepting of course, they are not by any stretch blameless, and have manipulated the system to their own ends too. Thanks for the considered response  Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I have to admit, I just can't read Rocket's ignorant drivel any more. He seems to revel in his ignorance. Can someone just let me know if he feels the need to threaten my life again. It's pretty damn stupid threatening to kill someone on the internet. Look Sifo we've been through this. I explained myself and you offered back the tough guy you are. The difference is, I said what I said, about shoving something up your arse as I recall (not killing you), to express the depth of my feelings. You on the other hand made it clear in real terms what I'd be up against. I believe the threat if one existed, no matter how concealed, was within your words and not mine. I didn't mean mine whereas you did mean yours. Regardless, if what I said did actually upset, then I apologise unreservedly. I am not an instigator nor a perpetrator of violence. I would much rather enjoy your friendship around motorcycles and beers. The stuff here does not reveal our real life personalities for f**k sake. I assure you I am not a jerk in real life. Just ask Blake  Rocket in England | ||
| Sifo |
The difference is, I said what I said, about shoving something up your arse as I recall (not killing you), to express the depth of my feelings. Seems your drug addled mind is failing you. Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2014 - 04:14 pm: If I had a gun I'd put you out of your misery. The meaning there seems pretty clear, doesn't it? Oh... Wait... Let me guess... You never said "kill"...  Trust me. We will never be friends. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Blake talks a lot of nonsense, tells Rocket he's way off base, and to wise up Here's me wising up Blake. http://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/ Question is Blake. Are you humble enough to admit his findings appear to be spot on. Rocket in England | ||
| S21125r |
“That's your interpretation. I was merely making light of the seriousness shown of gun ownership and the crying like babies at the threat of having them taken away. The irony not lost on me.” Interpretation??? You’ve made the direct analogy on several occasions - no one owns those words but you. What irony are you even going on about? You’ve set up a trap argument that no one can defend against without you invoking the “see – your crying like a baby” argument as if you somehow proved a point. That’s not ironic – thats $hitty logic. “Your example is in no way comparable to what I said and meant.” Directly comparable… Right to Bear Arms and Freedom of Religion are EQUALLY protected here in the United States as Civil Rights under the Second and First Amendments respectively. So I’ll ask again since you didn’t answer… If we banned the Muslim religion and its followers from the US would you consider the resulting protests to be “crying like babies at the threat of having them taken away?” On a theoretical level why shouldn’t we ban Muslims? Based on gun control logic… there is a dark side to the religion isn’t there? There is a small minority that can’t be trusted and we can’t tell the good ones from the bad ones can we? No one NEEDs to be Muslim do they? Takes on a decidedly racist tone when you change the meme from guns to religion dunnit. Perhaps that’s the irony that you didn’t misplace. “No it would be all grown up of me to fight such a system and my undeserved incarceration by bearing arms and shooting the shit out of my captors.” My apologies - I’m not sure you understood the intent of my question. I wasn’t implying that you should shoot anyone in that situation. I presented an extreme situation to determine how you differentiate between childish behavior and valid political protest. Apparently your only criteria is if you happen to agree with the issue. My point is that gun owners had good success peacefully repealing bad gun laws at the state and federal Supreme Court level as well as at the election booth… It’s the way it’s supposed to be done but somehow this is analogous to “acting like children deprived of it’s favorite toy”… | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I just want to know a simple answer Sean. For the cases of lawful self defense I posted above, do you contend that the defenders would have been better off without a firearm? No of course they wouldn't, but you are cherry picking examples of serious crimes which obviously support the answer you want to hear from me. Americans don't arm themselves because, as you bizarrely imagine, they think it's likely that they'll be a target of violence. They do so because it's possible. It's the very same reasoning that compels people to wear seat belts and motorcycle safety gear, to defend against the unlikely but extremely life threatening, death or severe injury. Your assertion possibility and not likelihood are what brings ordinary folk to arm themselves misses the point. The greater truth being, they are armed regardless because they know they live in a society riddled with crime that clearly gives need to gun ownership to protect oneself from these very crimes. It's also far less likely a person would be victim to such a crime in the UK (see link above) as you wrongly assert. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Umm, I read back what I wrote, and, I've read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States, and nowhere did I or the authors of those documents say that the God-given rights were America's alone, but rather all mankind's. I believe the point is, America can / does act as if it has the god given rights exclusively - despite how it's written by a bunch of long since dead blokes who are not lords of time. Rocket in England | ||
| S21125r |
"Question is Blake. Are you humble enough to admit his findings appear to be spot on." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2364796/Ha lf-crimes-investigated-police-focus-cases-priority -victims.html My guess is his finding are crap. But that's just me. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The meaning there seems pretty clear, doesn't it? Oh that comment  It was sarcasm FFS. Trust me. We will never be friends. I've a strong feeling I wouldn't have liked you anyway  Rocket in England | ||
| Torquehd |
Rocket, what does the qran command muslims to do to those who do not believe in allah? Sure, there are flower-child verses that the uninformed like to quote, from the early parts of mohamed's life. But as he got older, and met more resistance to his teachings, he became increasingly violent. The later commands supercede the prior, that is straight out of the qran. So, which ones are the real muslims? the ones who get along with nonbelievers, or the ones who violently murder anyone who opposes allah? And yes, it is in the name of allah. ISIS/ISIL is just the latest front name. Islam and allah have been part of it since the creation of islam. Simply saying, "maybe it's not..." doesn't change history. That is the type of response I'd expect from a hippy... what do you guys call them - greenearth or something? greenlove? greenpeace? And we are still going there and getting our fingers burned. That's because of politicians who have foreign policies that mirror your opinions. Let me wrap up the story of the west's involvement in the muslim lands. Small groups of really "bad" muslims start a conquest in the name of allah. The west has a sense of morality, and we can't just stand by and watch them commit crimes against humanity, so we go in and help the "good" muslims. We give them money, we fight their wars for them, we give them weapons and training to fight the "bad" muslims. A few years go by. The "good" muslims that we pumped millions of dolllars into, and gave American lives to save, turn out not to be good. Now they have some new name, but they're singing the same old tune. Islamic conquest, only now they have better weapons and tactics. Well, it's time to train a new group of "good" muslims. And the record skips and skips and skips. And our wonderful politicians just keep sending American money and soldiers to be consumed by people who are "good peaceful people". | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
You’ve set up a trap argument that no one can defend against without you invoking the “see – your crying like a baby” argument as if you somehow proved a point. That’s not ironic – thats $hitty logic. I wasn't looking for a reply. More making an observation merely humouring myself at the thought of millions of grown American men weeping over guns. You know, the irony of such. So I’ll ask again since you didn’t answer… If we banned the Muslim religion and its followers from the US would you consider the resulting protests to be “crying like babies at the threat of having them taken away?” I can't imagine why they'd be crying given you'd be doing them a favour. On a theoretical level why shouldn’t we ban Muslims? Based on gun control logic… there is a dark side to the religion isn’t there? Is there? You mean more so than there is other religions? I mean, let's face it America is blighted by millions of bible bashing nut jobs. Many of whom support war against Islam. There's a dark side to these christian religions then is there not? You know, in the shape of a bomb or a drone. That's christianity for ya. Or at least one version of it! There is a small minority that can’t be trusted and we can’t tell the good ones from the bad ones can we? You could say this of any group of people the world over. I'm sure there's some gung ho types here who I'd not trust to be representing their countries interests on the worlds stage should they be given a gun to do so. No one NEEDs to be Muslim do they? Takes on a decidedly racist tone when you change the meme from guns to religion dunnit. Perhaps that’s the irony that you didn’t misplace. You're babbling now. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
My guess is his finding are crap. But that's just me. Half of all crimes are not investigated because police focus on cases that are 'a priority for them and not victims' Obviously you didn't read the link. If you had you would have understood the in depth calculation used from various sources of information which included unreported crimes and crimes lumped into one category instead of two. Like a knife wielding rapist seen only as a rape crime and not counted also as a knife crime. Read it again. Or should that be read it, before you guess at your conclusion based on a Daily Mail headline FFS. http://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/ Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Small groups of really "bad" muslims start a conquest in the name of allah. The west has a sense of morality, and we can't just stand by and watch them commit crimes against humanity, so we go in and help the "good" muslims. We give them money, we fight their wars for them, we give them weapons and training to fight the "bad" muslims. A few years go by. The "good" muslims that we pumped millions of dolllars into, and gave American lives to save, turn out not to be good. Now they have some new name, but they're singing the same old tune. Islamic conquest, only now they have better weapons and tactics. What happened before this? And why does America not invade Saudi Arabia where they behead about 30 people a week for petty nonsense, or North Korea where they do similar, if they're so concerned about crimes against humanity. I mean hell, NK have got nukes FFS. Surely we should be slapping them down and taking those off them anytime soon. Rocket in England | ||
| Torquehd |
I just wrote a very long response to your responses, rocket, but I came to an important conclusion. Our differences of opinion are fostered by our governments. England has a King, you have a parliament. You are essentially a serf who does not have the lawful ability to defend yourself with suitable firearms. America is a republic. Our forefathers wrote our freedom to bear arms into existence for the express purpose of ensuring that the people rule the nation. So that we would never be the subjects of a king. On the bright side - if you don't like guns, England is rich in history of other types of weapons. I really like George Silver's doctrine on the shortsword, and its applications to the staff and two-handed sword. | ||
| Blake |
Sean, Thing is, if you look at each state in America, you'll find that those not afflicted with inner city gangs chart about like Scotland, way, way below the crime rates of places that have been wrecked by racist policies of the left here in America. So it's not guns, that explains the violence problem; it's the really bad policies of govt. When you teach people that they are inferior, not as capable, that they require handouts just to live, that their babies are better off dead, that families are undesirable, and husbands more trouble than they're worth... When you do all that for a half century, what do you figure the effect would be? Exactly what we see in Chicago, Washington, D.C., Detroit, and all the other broken inner cities in America. Eeking out an existence on govt handouts is a nothing but demoralizing. Regardless, people should be free to effectively defend themselves. How many of the 85,000 annual victims of rape in the UK would instead be able to dissuade their attacker should they have the option of a firearm to do so? A significant number for sure. Just knowing that women may be armed would likely deter a significant number of rapists. (Message edited by blake on September 29, 2014) | ||
| Sifo |
Blake, you have touched on an important issue in this discussion. Comparing areas within the US makes far more sense than comparing the US and UK. Rocket some days ago complained about all the UK bashing that was going on in this thread. How did we even get to where the UK was a topic in this thread? Rocket brought it into the discussion himself. Ignore his ignorant rants and stay on topic. The different ways the UK reports violent crime makes it pretty meaningless to use those statistics in any comparison. Then you have other great differences beyond the scope of what is being discussed. What we do have is what our government was designed to provide. Various states having the ability to try different things. Other state can look at the results and adjust what they do or suffer the consequences. We can see states that have huge violence problems and those that don't. We can also track violence problems in a state through time and compare to changes in gun laws and gun ownership. Doing this objectively has made it clear that liberal gun laws (and I don't mean restrictive laws passed by liberals) don't correlate with higher rates of violence. Illinois is just a recent data point in this discussion. We were recently forced by the court to come up with carry laws. Part of the result of this has been an absolute explosion in gun purchases, far beyond what the rest of the nation has seen as a result of BO's threats to gun ownership. During this explosion of gun ownership, and sudden legalization of guns outside the home and shooting range, there has actually been a decline in the crime rate. Oddly, in Chicago, where local laws have been passed to restrict guns beyond what the state laws do, this decline in violence has been less pronounced. Of course correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation, so to simply state that more guns has caused less crime may be a stretch. What is clear however is that more guns has certainly not caused crime to go up. Same thing happened in Wisconsin when they allowed concealed carry. Also Florida. What is clear is that the correlation between guns and violence just doesn't hold true as the gun haters claim. | ||
| Aesquire |
I would appreciate it if my fellow Yanks would stop picking on our best ally, England. Yes the real thing has very little to do with Rocket's claims of a 1950's paradise. The ruin leftist politicians and ill informed peace freaks have made of the airplane and car industry are legendary. Socializing those industries...like with GM, here, had predictable results for those not blinded by the glorious vision of the religion of lies. Yet despite insane legal oppression there are many small airplane makers with some outstanding products, and even though Rolls Royce is now a German? Company you can still get an outstanding car made in England. ( even if I probably can't afford it ) Not to mention the new Triumph company and a very good selection of fun machines. So. Please. No more picking on England. Resist pointing out to Rocket that he lives in a fantasy land where there are no slave markets, resisting violent monsters encourages them, and there is no possibility of him ever paying tax for his faith or lack thereof. If it gives him comfort until reality beheads him, what skin is it off your nose? Because he only believes in news from sources with at least a century track record of lying to influence and deceive, consider him a good window into the minds of those beloved by Stalin for their usefulness. And now those accusing the world of "provoking" murder if they hear a lie about someone defaming the Prophet. You know something worth killing your neighbors over. Like a cartoon in a magazine you never read in a language you don't know in a country you couldn't find on a map. A good Christian would forgive a man for reading propaganda then insisting despite utter ignorance that an unfortunate death still under investigation must have been an execution by an evil monster. Since I'm not Christian I'll have to work on that. | ||
| Blake |
Patrick, Someday we ought to discuss that. Ever make it to Texas?  The brew and bullets are on me.  Bullets first; brew later. | ||
| Aesquire |
Must do that some day. Even better if I can time it for a local SCA event and you can enjoy a day of archery and watching people in funny clothes. I always enjoy the Texan's hospitality when they camp up my way and we as a group enjoy showing off our hobby. Safest temporary gun free zone in Texas. Most of the Ladies have daggers. A few are sure to be high expert with thrown weapons. Give the Spetsnaz a run for the money with a Tomahawk. Amazing how proficiency with weapons gives confidence. ( many of the ladies are better shots with a .45 than me, I'd bet. They ARE Texans after all. )  | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I don't know where you imagine such an England, but I can tell you for a fact, even though I wasn't there, the 1950's were no paradise. The 50's represented a war torn all but destroyed Britain, and a bankrupt one at that. My Mum is offended to this day (she's a proud woman - as many are) when I remind her how we struggled to put food on the table in the early 70's. My childhood and teen years still some 16 to 30 years after the war greatly affected by that event. The shit you write, like you think you know because you've read the history books IS DOG SHIT. You wouldn't have a clue about this country unless you came here and experienced it like I have yours three times. And let's not forget I have British friends living in America. One now full time Manhattan resident and U.S. citizen. They LOVE NY dislike America. But the funny thing is, so does his wife - and she was born and bred NY. My other friends, a family with two young kids, lived in a swish pad also in Manhattan. Private security etc etc. It did not stop gun wielding c**nts tying them up in their swish secure apartment and robbing them. They've never been robbed in Tufnell Park! Nor have they, walking along Holloway Road. Yes London has its muggers, but they're not armed to the teeth with snub nosed specials or Desert Storms innit bro. Patrick, you know next to f**k all about the reality of British life. It is not the paradise you tell others I believe it is. It's got its social and domestic issues like any other similar place, but it still is a stunning country to look at and move about in, just like America, and it's a relatively safe one where you'd be highly unlikely to become a victim of crime should you visit. Though that said, you might be the victim of Romanian pickpockets should you travel through Waterloo Station. So Paddy, why don't you do as you say and stop talking for me? You just make yourself sound stupid to someone that knows. I didn't read it in a book see. I live it breath it am it every damn day Rocket in England (Message edited by rocket_in_uk on September 30, 2014) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Thing is, if you look at each state in America, you'll find that those not afflicted with inner city gangs chart about like Scotland, way, way below the crime rates of places that have been wrecked by racist policies of the left here in America. So it's not guns, that explains the violence problem; it's the really bad policies of govt. Your belief is baloney. It's actually the otherway around. Guns and violence will be where the people are, therefore supporting the figures calculated. Sure there are areas where crime is ever so much less likely to happen. It would be the same in the Cotswolds or Dartmoor, or the North Yorkshire Moors. Well, unless we include sheep shagging in the figures it wouldn't be free of much crime seeing as how we're all sheep shaggers here, apparently. One thing's for sure. I knew you wouldn't accept those figures and you'd come back with a reason (cough, urm, excuse) not to. But then the author did explain with many references how he accounted for the numbers he arrived at and how reporting crimes in certain areas played its part in the calculations. You should check your stats again perhaps. Or just accept it as a pretty good way of showing the U.S. is far more likely to render a person a victim of serious crime (usually with a gun) than the UK - the authors point, and his in depth well documented findings. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
When you teach people that they are inferior, not as capable, that they require handouts just to live, that their babies are better off dead, that families are undesirable, and husbands more trouble than they're worth... When you do all that for a half century, what do you figure the effect would be? Exactly what we see in Chicago, Washington, D.C., Detroit, and all the other broken inner cities in America. Well it's not quite that bad here to my knowledge, but the demographic you appear to single out, if their counterparts are who you are talking about here, these 'lower classed' citizens have their own cosy way of doing things and likely consider themselves pretty free to go about their lives as they please. Eeking out an existence on govt handouts is a nothing but demoralizing. Many here rely upon state benefit. I don't believe they see doing so as demoralising. Those that have made a career out of benefit claiming, and there are millions of them, are not demoralized for doing so. They would be however, if their benefits were taken away. But then nobody would have a wrought iron gate or fence soon after Regardless, people should be free to effectively defend themselves. How many of the 85,000 annual victims of rape in the UK would instead be able to dissuade their attacker should they have the option of a firearm to do so? A significant number for sure. Just knowing that women may be armed would likely deter a significant number of rapists. You know, I'd no idea the rape figures were as posted here. I know women. Lots of women. I'm struggling to think of even one that's been a victim of rape. Maybe rapists ignore the stunners. What do I know when a bunch of Yanks tell me my countries full of rapists and there's no virgins anymore  Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
Rocket if I told your your wife /girlfriend was beautiful you'd complain about her horrid disfigurement. You need to adjust your meds. | ||
| Aesquire |
Btw I know several rape victims it's not tattooed on their face. They won't talk about it to their girlfriends much less a pig male like you. All too often they never tell anyone....and are not part of the statistics. May be up to half of all ( post college) adult lesbians. Do the math. You really have no idea. Not an insult you tosser.... most have no idea. (Message edited by aesquire on September 30, 2014) | ||
| Gaesati |
now, now boys, play nice. |
