| Author | Message | ||
     Torquehd |
I've got an '09 Specialized Allez. It's a nice bike (for me), and I like it, except one major thing. It doesn't handle like a good motorcycle should. I've only logged about a hundred miles on it, so I'm not used to the feel of it yet. The steering is overly sensitive. Tiny amounts of rider input translate into big reactions. In the motorcycle world, we could fix this by tightening the steering head bearings, or adding a steering stablilizer. I tightened the "headset" bearings a little, but I don't want to overtorque them and wear them out prematurely. I assume this handling reaction is caused by three things: 1. Deficient rake angle. 2. Deficiency of gyroscopic effect from the frt wheel being so darn light. 3. The handlebars being located too far in front of the steering stem. Obviously I could change some of those things, but with a negative impact on performance - ie, a heavier wheel means slower pace, pulling the bars back would increase wind drag. Anyone know about this kind of thing? I think I would enjoy riding more if I didn't feel like I was going to highside everytime I turn my head to look for cars. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I am no expert... but I think you should get fitted by a pro at a good bike shop. A couple millimeters here and there could make all the difference. | ||
| Aesquire |
An Allez should not handle like a motorcycle. It should be much quicker. Still if it bugs you you need it fixed. I'll check with my bike building professional buddy and get back to you. | ||
| Azxb9r |
Road bikes are generally designed to be quick steering. The biggest factor is head angle, with fork rake having a secondary effect. The Allez has a head angle (depending on frame size) around 73 to 73.5 degrees which is pretty middle of the road as far as road bikes go. If you are uncomfortable with the handling you could try a shorter stem to lessen the leverage you have on the steering, but this will affect the fit of the bike. Which brings up another question...does the bike fit you properly and how is your posture on the bike? Too much weight on the front tire will make the bike feel squirrelly and unstable. Having your bar set too low can contribute to that. As far as your headset is concerned, most newer bikes have cartridge style headset bearing which is just pulled up tight, but older style (and some newer) headsets need to have the preload properly set. I you get it too tight it will damage the headset and cause "indexed steering" which can be quite sphincter puckering. Coming off of a motorcycle, a road bike is going to feel much more sensitive...it may just be a matter of you getting used to it. Coming off of the moto and onto a bicycle I always feel like I can make the bicycle do anything I want it too | ||
| Thumper74 |
Dedicated roadbike? Drop bars and all? I mountain biked a lot in my late teens/early twenties and then got a Giant OCR road bike. Hated every second of it. I ride a GT Traffic now and love it. It's a flat bar 'fitness' bike. It's got gearing between a mountain bike and a roadbike, more upright position, disc brakes, etc. | ||
| Schwiiing |
+1 on getting the bike properly fit to you. I had mine done and it made a WORLD of difference. Still, a bicycle is always going to feel squirrely compared to any motorcycle. Shop around for bike fitting. I had shops wanting up to $200 (plus parts) for a fitment session w/ their uber-fancy data machines. I found an old-school bike shop owner who did most of his measuring w/ a plumb-bob. Charged me $40, plus parts (changed out the handlebar stem). Good luck. Happy riding. | ||
| Teeps |
I've been riding road bikes for over 25 years. Getting fitted to the bike is always good, but the bicycle will NEVER feel and handle like a motorcycle. It took me about 6 months (and hundreds of miles) to feel comfortable on the bicycle. Since I ride a motorcycle, too. I switched the bike to right hand front brake, left hand rear. That eliminates one thing that is not the same as the moto. It didn't take me long to get used to left hand rear brake operation I recently put 28mm tires on my bike front & rear and discovered that the bigger/wider tires made the bike "feel" more like the Uly in downhill sweeping corners. It seemed to slow the turn in, of course it could all be in my head, too. Larger tires can be safely run with less pressure 90~96PSI vs 115PSI on 23mm tires. The ride is a little softer as a result of lower pressure, too The bicycle will never feel the same, as the motorcycle; you have to self calibrate to each bike. | ||
| Torquehd |
Thanks for the replies guys, I had the bike set up to me upon initial purchase. I bought it new in '08, and joined the army right after that, so the bike has done more sitting in the garage(s) than anything. Teeps, thanks for the insight. I may try a wider set of tires, I hate how I can feel every little piece of aggregate in the asphalt. While I know it's not going to feel like a motorcycle despite my best wishes, the road bike is just more squirrely than my mountain bike. Do you have any experience with the aero bars - the kind where you rest your elbows on pads, with your forearms out over the front wheel? I'd like to try them out - they just look haphazard, but it seems like they'd be beneficial once you got used to them. | ||
| Azxb9r |
Stay away from the aero bars...they are an accident waiting to happen. You need to be completely comfortable with how your bike handles before attempting to tackle aero bars, and unless you are doing lots of flat miles (or competing in time trials/triathlons), they dont provide enough of a benefit to make them worthwhile in my opinion. | ||
| Xb9er |
700X25C is probably the widest you can go. A 700x28C will rub against the frame. | ||
| Torquehd |
Ok. Thanks for the info Azxb9r. | ||
| Aesquire |
Aero bars are designed to pull the arms together to reduce drag plus lower the back.....same reason. They are meant for relatively straight line hammering and I don't use them because of body shape. I can't breath right and knee my gut. My drop bars are already set as low as I want. .......and I'm probably more spherical than you. You have to get used to them and it's really a ymmv thing. I do use bar end aero stubs on my flat bar bikes, to lower the torso but keep the ribcage open to breath. Both my mountain bike and my 700c off roader have bars set up for technical single track, too upright for road zooming. So the aero stubs on those bike get used a lot. One bike even has brake levers usable from both positions. Ironically the 700c trail bike, a fillet brazed Stowe Rhino ( local custom builder now semi retired ) with gearing to climb nigh ridiculous slopes is faster than my full on race Austro-Daimler Olympian. It's the wheels. The road bike has uberlight classic rims and the Stowe has aero rims. The curved "A" cross section rims are tough enough for absurd speed on steep dirt track and slice through the air enough better that I can hold the higher rims the gearing forces. I've only got the 3.... I'm crazy not a collector. Find a local old school bike shop. Have him give the bike a going over to set all the bearings right and have him fit you. Then put on some cushy tires and have fun. You can try super skinny tires next year. They really can be uncomfortable in pain and handling. One tip. Don't save grams on bars stem or seatpost. Failure on those parts HURTS YOU. Wanna spend money and buy lightness? Rims. | ||
| Aesquire |
Btw... everyone who posted above is right. Don't get the aero bars. Have the shop put on the tires. That way they have to get it right in one trip. Get a fresh saddle. The foam in the old one is shot especially if it's been frozen. Get a saddle with a groove to protect your nerves. You do not want the numbness that can get....and make the important bits go numb. You can lose function permanently. If you're lady rides get her a Terry saddle. Period. I know Georgina Terry and her saddles protect the girls tender bits and have the padding in the right spots. Wider than yours. Terry's mens saddles are good too. Damn phone will Not let me spell the nerve that runs right behind your scrotum and ahead of the anus. THEM it lets me spell!!! That nerve. Don't crush it. (Message edited by aesquire on September 26, 2014) | ||
| Torquehd |
While I'm currently fine with the weight of my bike, a question. How much difference do lighter wheels make, regarding the gyro effect? It seems like a wheel that only weighs a couple pounds would have a hard time keeping a bicycle+rider stable. | ||
| Xb9er |
lighter wheels also have better bearings, so overall rolling resistance is less. Light wheels are better for climbing hills. better wheels are the best performance investment on a road bike. Lighter wheels are usually stiffer too. | ||
| Aesquire |
The gyro effect is overrated. It's geometry that keeps you upright. All you notice with lighter wheels is it's easier to turn and mostly it's easier to accelerate. My A-D has 74 degrees parallel geometry. Considered very quick steering. Some crit bike meant for circling the block at full speed go 75 or 76 degrees on the steering head. Seat tube angle varies with size and length. I'm long torso so my bikes are set up that way. So don't worry about the gyroscopic effect and remember bikes at speed work by counter steering. The pressures required are TINY compared to a motorcycle. | ||
| Teeps |
Torquehd, A lot of good info in this thread... If you're not racing stay away from stupid light parts, including wheels. Good point that 28C tires, may not clear the frame on your bike. | ||
| Mnrider |
 I had a nice Allez a few years ago but sold it to a friend it was just a little too big for me. It takes a bit of riding to figure out what works for you.It took me a while to get the best setup on my Klein.I now have a different seat,stem and pedals from this photo.For me a shorter and higher stem made a huge improvement. | ||
| Ratbuell |
If you had it set up in '08...then joined the Army (thank you)...get it set up again. I'm willing to bet your physique has changed more than a little bit in the last six years. | ||
| Torquehd |
Thanks a bunch for all the replies, gents. Honestly, that sounds like good advice, but I absolutely hate paying people to do things I can do for myself (or figure out how to do). And not just because I'm on a tight budget. I tightened up the headset nut (terminology?) a touch more, and the steering is a little better now. I don't think it's too tight, I'd guess it's ~ 50 in-lbs. If it wears out the bearings, they don't look too hard to replace. I watched a how-to video, then adjusted the rear derailleur, as it wasn't cycling through all gears. It works fine now, and I oiled the chain up and sprockets, but I am getting a little bit of noise from the idler sprockets (or whatever they're called - jockey wheels?) when I turn the pedals. Is that normal? | ||
| Xb9er |
you will get some noise from the jockey pulleys, its just the chain being guided on the plastic wheels. Less is more when it comes to chain lube. I use rock'n roll gold. use a micro-fiber cloth and wipe down the chain. dribble lube over chain while rotating the pedal backwards four rotations (its a chain length), let it sit for two minutes, then wipe of the chain again. Rock'n Roll is a cleaner/lubricant. Repeat this every 150 miles. I'm a student at Penn State and I'm a part-time bicycle mechanic at a specialized/cannondale shop. If you have any other questions let me know. As for tightening your headset, loosen the stem pinch bolt, then loosen the bolt on the top cap (the one that tightens the headset), then re-tighten until the spacers no longer spin, then re-tighten your stem pinch bolts to 5NM. This is proper tightness. | ||
| Steeleagle |
Late to the party, but I'll give my 2 cents. I've been a roadie for a number of years and my big event each year is a 210 mile ride over 2 days, so I'm doing 105 two days in a row. Comfort is key, but after 210 miles, my butt is telling me to GET OFF THE BIKE. As far as suggestions go, I agree with most of them. Proper fit is critical. I've had mine fitted by a "pro", which helped but there's also a lot of good info on fit available on-line or in bicycling magazines to get you close. A bicycle shouldn't feel like a motorcycle, since it's expected that you'll support your torso with your arms/shoulders, contradictory to riding a motorcycle, where you support the torso with your "core" (abs). I LOVE my aero bars. While I don't have them for speed (usually around 16-17 mph average), they DO reduce wind resistance a LOT and therefore reduce effort, a priority for long rides. Yes, it's risky if you stay on the aero bars while turning. They are twitchy and take getting used to so you don't over-control. But if I'm straight-line pedaling, I will ALWAYS go down on the aero bars at anything other than slower speeds, where the lack of gyro from wheels makes things unsteady. The drops don't provide the same comfort or aero advantage as the bars for me. To each his own. Light wheels for climbing and accelerating. You've got rotational and translational energy to generate, so if you're picking a target for weight reduction, I'm looking at wheels. Zipp for me. I've not been pedaling as much as I need to or want to this season, but it's great exercise and good for socializing if you're not sucking air going up a hill! | ||
| Gobadgers |
Also late to the party. Worked in a bike shop back in the 70's and also ride quite a bit, on the road in the summer and rollers in the winter. A longer wheelbase bike is a road touring bike built for comfort. Shorten the wheelbase for quick acceleration in racing. As you shorten the wheelbase everything gets a bit squirrelly. I have both and the touring bike I can ride sitting up with no hands for miles. The shorter wheelbase bike I cannot take my hands off the bars at all without the next moment being on the ground. Always amazed at the Tour de France riders that come across the line at the finish with their arms in the air. I've used Aero bars alot and it takes only a short while to get use to. A couple of things about the bars. For me, an easy 2 to 3 mile an hour increase in speed down on the bars. Heading into wind they also greatly help. I found that as I got older my hands would get numb and going down on the aero bars really helped to provide a change of position. My problem with aero bars is that down in the tuck for periods of time hurts me in the crotch/prostate area to the point of injury and even dysfunction. I found I was putting quite a bit more pressure in that area. Again, probably a bit of a function of age too. I have probably ridden 30,000 miles with the aero bars on, and my days of using them are over. If you are going to use them, make sure you get a seat with a cutout. Also consider dropping the angle on the front of the seat a little to take pressure off. | ||
| Aesquire |
Do Not Crush the Nerve my phone won't let me spell!!!!!! Ride a saddle with a cutout and/or groove. Girls don't get the temporary.....or permanent loss of manly function. They get sore and numb and don't want to........ I'll leave it at that. The advice to lower the nose of the saddle for the extreme tuck position aero bars help you hold for longer is wise. Don't hurt that nerve. |
