| Author | Message | ||
     Hootowl |
Who claimed the Weathermen led the *peace movement? * Soviet for 'make our enemies go home so we can spread communism throughout East Asia'. | ||
| Chauly |
Careful, Crusty, your 'sign is showing... "But we couldn't do it alone..." | ||
| Pwnzor |
Lies sound like the truth to the ears of a sinner. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Another Ukrainian copter fell out of sky... all dead. So much for the cease-fire. | ||
| Fredfast |
"Lies sound like the truth to the ears of a sinner." And what book in the bible would I find that? I bet you made that up. You're so clever. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Are you borderline 70? I never said it was in the bible. I merely make this poignant observation on your behalf. This has been a public service announcement. | ||
| Fredfast |
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-turmoil/not- worth-it-huge-majority-regret-iraq-war-exclusive-p oll-n139686 This must be an example of the 'Tyranny of the Majority'. | ||
| Blake |
Given the absolutely despicable abdication of responsibility in Iraq to our alloes there by Obama handing victory to islamist terrorists in Iraq and all over the world, what is NOT to regret? Had we done what is necessary after winning any foreign war and ensured continued security and stability as the new nation gets its footing, the "worth it" numbers would be drastically changed. WW-II in Europe worth it? In the Pacific? Korean War worth it? Vietnam? NO! On account of despicable Marxist Progressive Democracts aided by corrupt news media orchestrating our defeat just as they have now with Iraq and are doing now in Afghanistan. Bush ••••••• up huge in Iraq, but he recovered via the surge and left it with strong allies in all factions, Shia, Sunni, and Kurd. Obama blew it with no one else to blame. Community organizer and Marxist friends could care less, just so long as they achieve their goal, that America is taken down a notch or three on the world stage, and our liberty is subdued by govt control. Sickening to have to watch. | ||
| Hootowl |
"I fought in the Vietnam war! I was conscripted." The draft was despicable. It raises my hackles every time democrats try to revive it. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
http://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-president-ends-uni lateral-ceasefire-221108916.html http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/05/ukrai ne-army-regains-control-slavyansk Truth and reality.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ7cxqja_74&featur e=youtube_gdata_player Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
As prepared as I am to believe this is "all Obama's fault" ( F...the EU ) when I see such obvious propaganda I really have to wonder if Putin is His Master? If Putin has been his Master all along, it explains a lot. ( including what Obama was doing in Pakistan with his "buddy" on an illegal passport. Attending that Soviet college for African Revolutionaries, perhaps? I used to know the name of that school...... Here's a little historical perspective. Rocket may get bored, it has a lot to do with last century. You remember, a long tome ago. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/06/20/e verything_you_think_you_know_about_the_collapse_of _the_soviet_union_is_wrong ( funny, when I google "soviet college" I get Ithaca College..... actually that makes perfect sense. I've been to the People's Republic of Ithaca. ) | ||
| Macbuell |
Aesquire ... that story on the collapse of the Soviet Union is fascinating. What is a little alarming is some of the parallels to the Soviet Union them and the United States now. The general discontent of the people is very similar to how the majority of Americans are feeling today. | ||
| Aesquire |
Today Hamas attacks Israel with Iranian missiles and uses human shields to try and protect themselves. The ultimate suppliers of these weapons is Russia and China. Silkworm anti ship missiles in the Gulf, (China) SA-10 & 21 ( S-300 & 400 ) anti air missiles, (Russia) tanks, artillery, training. ........... Even the weapons supplied to Hamas are Russian designs or actually made in Russia with false identification. PREDICTION! I anticipate another round of munition ships under a humanitarian propaganda cover..( too easy a prediction to make I fear ) Not prediction but worry..... I think at this point the Israeli leaders may decide to put a few rounds into the hold of one of these cargo ships to let the huge secondary explosion show the true nature of the "humanitarian aid", and to hell with the human shields on deck. In Ukraine it looks like Vladimir is pulling in his horns a bit on Eastern Ukraine. I doubt he's going to be satisfied with Crimea. He may be waiting for attention to be drawn to Israel while he builds up forces in Ukraine. Which he will lie about as usual. Baal only knows what the EU is doing. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
BBC version http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856 RT version http://rt.com/news/173636-buk-malaysian-plane-cras h/ Rocket in England | ||
| Xdigitalx |
The Ukraine Military really has no use for these missiles in that area at the moment. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_UKRAINE_ PLANE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME= 2014-07-17-15-47-34 | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/war-in-eu rope/ As of Noon today, Russia says it didn’t happen over Russian territory, and Russia had nothing to do with it. Ukraine says they didn’t do it. The Ukrainian separatists say “We don’t have the capability to shoot things down at 33,000 feet. It fell in our territory and we have the black boxes. We have not opened them and we are turning them over to the Russians.” I don’t usually get involved in breaking news, but this is intriguing. I believe the separatists: they wouldn’t have missiles with that capability unless the Russians gave them and the Russians would have to send some technical advisors too; it’s just not likely. Russia almost certainly did not order the intercept as a matter of policy, but a Russian air defense officer might have seen the aircraft coming and ordered an intercept. Time is short in these situations. I don’t know the level of alert Russian Air Defense is on now, but I’d have thought scrambling an intercept would be more likely than firing a missile. And I can’t think of a good motive for the Ukrainians to have shot down a Malaysian airliner. The area is on the international warning system as a war zone to be avoided. One of the passengers on the flight send a message just before departure: it was a picture of the airplane and a tag saying this is what the plane looks like just in case it goes missing… | ||
| Trojan |
I believe the separatists: they wouldn’t have missiles with that capability unless the Russians gave them and the Russians would have to send some technical advisors too; According to a Ukrainian Govt spokesman on BBC news this morning he said that the separatists stole some missiles and launchers when they took over a Ukrainian military base a couple of months ago. However I would still think they would need technical assistance to operate the things, unless somebody said 'I wonder what this does?'. | ||
| Aesquire |
Soviet made gear is designed for conscript troops. They gave them to a lot of countries with crap education and an iron age culture. I bet I could use one with just the manual. Couldn't get optimum performance.....but hit an airliner cruising in . a straight line? The above opinion piece was written before the news about the SAM site. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The sepreatists had shot down a Ukranian plane flying at 22,000 feet the day before... they sure as heck didn't do that with an AK and a lucky shot. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
So, none of the separatists used to be in the Ukraine military?? Not one? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Amazing the finger of blame can be pointed almost instantly without investigation or proof. One thing is certain. Russia will know EXACTLY where the missile was fired from as they're tracking EVERYTHING that moves in Eastern Ukraine. Interestingly, the area claimed by Ukraine to be where the missile was allegedly fired from was visited by RT journo's. There is no evidence of even an anti-government presence in the area. Nor has there been. Then there's the Ukraine traffic control, who directed the plane two hundred miles north of its usual daily route, and asked it to descend to 2200 feet, claimed on Twitter in real time by a Spanish air controller the 737 was being escorted by two Ukraine fighter jets up until three minutes before it was shot down. The Twitter account has been shut down and Tweets removed. There are copies and they're going to surface no doubt. For all the world to see this looks like Russia had no part in this, but that's not what YOU will be told, therefore believe. Let's at least wait until the evidence comes out. This despite the BadWeB kangaroo court of usual jurors having already deliberated. Rocket in England | ||
| S2t_bama |
Let me get this straight. Two possibilities for consideration. 1. Poorly trained separatists get a sophisticated SAM. They lack the ability to positively ID an AC cruising at 33,000 ft, but assume Malaysian B777 is another military transport, so they shoot it down. Tragically, they killed 298 civilians by mistake. 2. The Ukrainian military and air traffic control (civilian?) purposely guided the Malaysian airliner into a slaughter. And, I assume you mean they also shot it down, rather than just putting them into the crosshairs of separatists. Either way, the result is the MURDER of 298 civilians from everywhere but Ukraine and Russia. Again, let me get this straight. You choose to believe option 2??? If so, that is a truly insane outlook. | ||
| Macbuell |
Rocket, a long time ago, lost any ability to look at anything on this subject objectively and therefore lost his credibility. I opened this thread to laugh at his spin on this and it was exactly as I expected. | ||
| Aesquire |
S2t_bama, option 1 you have there is too loose. Russian trained soldiers, now in civies, could easily operate a SAM they were trained on. They could be part of the millions of Russian trained troops who got laid off and sent home and now are local patriots. They could just as easily be Russian soldiers operating in a foreign country out of uniform under orders. ( from Vladimir ) There were many MIG pilots in the Korean War who were Russian Instructors, which they denied up until like, 2006.... which is when the US Navy finally admitted that they had shot down 3 Migs that came out to play with a carrier. The US Naval Aviator flying a F9F Panther, did not get credit until 2006. The forces that seized the Crimean part of Ukraine earlier this year were, as Vladimir himself said, Russian forces operating out of uniform. ( Russia before that denied that they sent them there, which Rocket does not believe, since RT told him so ) So, it's entirely possible that it was 1. Russian backed rebels that shot down a plane by mistake. ( and several on purpose )or.... Come up with your own motive. 2. Russian troops, you figure out a motive. 3 Ukraine forces, most cynical motive an excuse to get NATO involved. 3.5 Ukraine forces in a plot with the EU scary-name-rich-evil-acrats and the evil Obama to distract everyone from the other evil they are pulling on everyone. Take your pick. make your argument from insufficient facts. | ||
| Sifo |
Rocket, a long time ago, lost any ability to look at anything on this subject objectively and therefore lost his credibility. I opened this thread to laugh at his spin on this and it was exactly as I expected.  | ||
| Sifo |
Hope it's not a repost... Russia Today Correspondent Abruptly Quits Over Malaysian Crash Coverage and Levies Big Charge | ||
| Hootowl |
What!?! A Russian news organization not telling the truth? The hell you say. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/dont-fly- through-war-zones/ quite a bit of good info and here is part of the editorial. President Obama is reacting strongly, but in my judgment weirdly: “Russia, Ukrainian Separatists, and Ukraine must adhere to an immediate cease fire. Evidence must not be tampered with.” And demands that the FBI be admitted to a war zone. And – Well I can think of other international situations in which we could wish for strong words from the President, but none came forth. What Putin can say: “Look up the Vincennes affair. I do not recall that you allowed Egyptian and Iranian investigators aboard your warship.” Mr. Obama is speaking more severely to the President of Russia than ever he has to Dear Leader despite North Korea’s various incursions and bombardments in South Korea. Treating the President of Russia as an international terrorist that one can speak down to is not, in my judgment, an optimum foreign policy. Meanwhile the Israelis have invaded the Gaza Strip, stating as one objective the final and permanent closure of tunnels and other illegal entry points to Gaza: to stem the flow of missiles into Gaza (and out of Gaza into Israel). There is precious little news on that today: Breaking: the President is speaking now. “We are hopeful that “ the Israelis will work to reduce civilian casualties, and… Anyway I heard nothing significant. The Israelis at considerable cost abandoned Gaza and stripped out Israeli settlers – even as some of the Army refused to take part in that effort –but the result was that Hamas took control, and missiles began to fly out of Gaza toward Tel Aviv, Ben-Gurion Airport, and points north and east. This has gone on since not long after the Israelis abandoned Gaza. I confess that at the time my view was that stopping the Settlers and establishing a stable border was the only way to a two-state solution to the Palestine situation. Most of my Israeli friends agreed although some very reluctantly. The result was not successful. The West Bank territories are governed by – well, you read the papers. And Gaza has become a warehouse for missiles to be launched in the general direction of Israel, and with about that accuracy. Because they have so far been ineffective there seems to be no call for prosecution of Gaza Palestinians as international terrorists. I am now hearing that the missileers must have had sophisticated training from Russia. This is nonsense. They were not designed to be operated by long experienced technically trained troops. Maintenance and be more complex, but operation is easy: here’s the screen, here’s the arming switch, this mouse selects the target… Operations are no more difficult than a modern computer game. And as noted above, it is easy to be mistaken about altitude and size of the target. Had the operators of that missile been better trained it probably would not have been launched at a civilian aircraft. On the other hand, the crew of the Vincennes were quite well trained… The President says there will have to be an international investigation. So far I have heard no comment from the Russians. I expect a full press conference sometime but possibly not until next week. As I said, Russian SAMs are built to be run by conscript troops. I'm pretty sure that a days study of the manual ( which I would need a translation of, and a Ukranian or Russian would not ) and I could shoot down planes. This is not bragging. I've been in a F-106 flight simulator that required two hands to run the airplane's stick, and the attached radar stick, and a sequence of switch moves that would take me a week to learn to do poorly, and typically took several tens of seconds for a well trained pilot. With an instructor leaning over my shoulder telling me which buttons to press, it took me 20 minutes to shoot down a simulated bomber flying in a straight line. OTOH it took about 3 minutes to figure out how to use a Patriot missile battery ( Simulator ) to shoot down incoming scuds. I bet the Russian version has a clunkier mouse, but is easier to use. ( Probably harder to be perfect, but that's why techs get to sit in the air conditioned trailer instead of in a crappy hut made with sandbags. ) Airshows rock. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/p utin-set-to-retaliate-against-obama-by-trashing-ir an-deal.html I have mixed feelings on this one. Putin obviously plans to crash the photo-op idiot negotiations with Iran. The planned negotiations are bad, stupid, and will have an evil outcome for everyone. Obama planned for it to show how awesome a diplomat he can be. ( if you are a conspiracy type, it's to let his Brothers In Iran make nukes, murder Israel, and become the Caliphate on the way to ruling the world. ) So, today I thank Vladimir for screwing up the negotiations with people who have never kept their word. Perhaps the next administration can do something useful, like support the people who went into the streets in Tehran with Obama signs, and were killed while Obama went on a fund raiser. | ||
| Reindog |
This is a natural progression since the Russian invasion of Crimea. Learn from history.  |
