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Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 10:10 am: | 
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What bike will you be on Wolf? I doubt I'll be able to escape work and sneak up for Vintage days, but I'd like to.
(And if there are SX demo bikes there, I'll be there at 5am to get a spot in line  ).
(Message edited by reepicheep on June 13, 2014) |
Wolfridgerider
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 11:39 am: |
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All I have now is a DR650
Sold off or traded all the Buells shortly after HD shut them down.
That event took the wind out of my motorcycling sails.
I am starting to feel a breeze... |
Mnrider
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 01:55 pm: |
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That SX in black is the best looking naked I've ever seen.Great job EBR.
I hate clutter and thats the problem I have with most naked bikes.
The AX can't be far off now. |
Natexlh1000
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 02:43 pm: |
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Personally, I hate the headlight.
A proper naked bike should have one round headlight or sometimes two as in the older speed triples.
One big round eye on the front would make it look much better. |
Redbuelljunkie
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 03:52 pm: |
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I'm extremely proud of Triumph for building a street bike that race teams have been able to put on the podium at Daytona, IOM TT, BSB, and various other venues in the past year. I can attest at how good the Daytona 675 is, I bought one in its first year of production- 2006.
I expect the 1190RX will have been on similar podiums as well by its eighth year of production.
I love my 2000 X1 street/track bike, and I love my 2000 Daytona 955i race bike. Why do so many topics online have to devolve into a pissing match?... especially when we're all on here because we're passionate about the same stuff.
(Message edited by redbuelljunkie on June 13, 2014) |
2008xb12scg
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 04:06 pm: |
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I think both EBR bikes are dead sexy. As far as the "why did it take a year" comments, my question is, how long does it usually take a manufacturer to design a bike (even if it's very similar) line up vendors, go through testing and get through all the epa bureaucrats? They could have had the bike ready a year ago and been dealing with epa, dot and other regulatory b.s. for this whole time. Maybe somebody knows how long it takes to get through the red tape part? |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 04:47 pm: |
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My guess, and it is a guess, is that even the AX is already built and has been for near a year or more. To have released them all at once would have overwhelmed the system at EBR. |
Rocket_in_uk
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 05:13 pm: |
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I also had an idea. Rocket and Trojan should make a movie about themselves.
I've a good part in a movie to be shot the end of this year 
You can see my debut twenty years ago. All 8 seconds worth! Outside Smithy's Chippy. The one in the Harley cap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZTBOnwGkVw
In a music video. Shadowy driver of wedding car. Was supposed to get out, open door for 'bride and groom'. We couldn't find a quick way to secure the ribbon so we trapped it in the doors. I couldn't get out without it falling so I missed my moment of fame on this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En0TJVOX1Yc
Rocket in England |
Rocket_in_uk
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 05:22 pm: |
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Why do so many topics online have to devolve into a pissing match?... especially when we're all on here because we're passionate about the same stuff.
Probably because some are unhappy with EBR's pace in WSBK and some aren't. And probably because some are unhappy with the SX and some aren't.
It's just the way it is 
It would be a boring forum and some pretty mundane bikes out there if we all agreed and liked the same things.
Rocket in England |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2014 - 05:32 pm: |
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Or because some really don't care much about WSBK and will likely be priced out of even considering the SX.
BTW, I was at out dealer today, and it's not here. Well I didn't really expect it to be. It is hard to claim it's here though when you don't even have pricing. They sure had a nice selection of lightly used bikes in the ~$10K range though. If I didn't like my lightning so much I could easily pull the trigger on a number of bikes they have right now.
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Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 09:54 am: |
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Much more appealing to me...
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2010/12/erik-buell- racing-typhon-streetfighter-will-it-see-production /
But I'm not the target. I'm air cooled for life by choice. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 10:31 am: |
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The Typhon apparently doesn't have any cooling fans, a necessity for a street bike. Leaving those off side-steps a big problem the EBR engineers had to deal with for the SX. The Typhon also has the vastly more expensive RS radiators, which fit tighter to the front of the bike. Still, it should be possible for these guys to come up with a kit that would make the SX look a lot more like the Typhon. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 12:31 pm: |
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Be mindful there are a host of other "difficult/impossible to homologate" features.
The Typhon is interesting art. |
Rocket_in_uk
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 03:53 pm: |
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The Typhon is much more on target for a 'Buell' streetfighter than the EBR offering.
I'm not getting why it would be necessary to homologate it if were of EBR making and to be put into production?
Rocket in England |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 05:21 pm: |
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Homologate it INTO production. DOT standards. EU standards. Lighting requirements. Noise requirements. Emissions requirements. Any production vehicle needs to be homologated.
Take the Typhon. Build it, largely by hand. Fulfill your "vision" of what your motorcycle should be.
Now...build another one. Figure out how to make the parts - those lovingly hand-crafted parts - production-ready and able to be reliably reproduced. Make that about a dozen more motorcycles. Send them to various organizations to get tested and certified. See what passes...and what fails.
Build a few others as test mules, to test in-house and make sure they even work as designed. If they hold up to severe duty cycles in addition to normal daily use. Redesign everything that doesn't survive.
Oh...and submit all the redesigned pieces for new approvals.
Get the reports back from the agencies, and find out what passed...and what failed. Redesign the parts that failed. Make sure the new parts are not only up to snuff for certification, but make sure the parts are easy to produce in quantity and won't hold up the production process, or the build process.
Build MORE bikes, with the NEW parts, to be re-certified. Repeat until everything passes.
All of this happens while parts suppliers are on hold. No sense building parts...if you don't know they'll pass. Imagine a semi truck full of headlights...that can't be certified, and are now garbage.
Once you finally get everything certified and passed...throw all those bikes in the dumpster, because they are not allowed to be sold or used on public roads.
NOW, you can start your parts suppliers building parts. Once the parts start arriving, and you verify the production parts are up to the quality standards required by your duty cycle tests...you may start building the FIRST motorcycle that can be legally sold for public consumption.
How long does that take?
How much does it cost?
In the case of the SX...why go through the certification process for a headlight, when you already have one that's passed; has exceptional light output; uses state-of-the-art technology; and is already sitting on your factory shelves? Use what you have. Ditto the instruments. Tail section. License plate holder. Lighting. As much as possible...use what you've got and change only what's necessary.
Build a customer base, get some income and revenue flowing, make a name for yourself...THEN start doing more clean-sheet designs. But walk before you run.
As I said in one of these threads...the SX is a very smart motorcycle for what is effectively a fledgling company. And the fact it exists at all...speaks volumes about the company and it's abilities. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 05:38 pm: |
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In the case of the SX...why go through the certification process for a headlight, when you already have one that's passed; has exceptional light output; uses state-of-the-art technology; and is already sitting on your factory shelves? Use what you have. Ditto the instruments. Tail section. License plate holder. Lighting. As much as possible...use what you've got and change only what's necessary.
Not to mention that you are still dealing with low production numbers so using common parts gives you better a economy of scale. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 07:39 pm: |
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Another point I made in one of the other threads. I suspect we'll see "variations" for a bit, until things really take off and numbers go up, allowing for truly different "models". |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 08:29 pm: |
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Typhon kit
http://www.buell-parts.com/uk/news/32/first_typhon parts_available_soon.html |
Rocket_in_uk
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2014 - 09:56 pm: |
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Homologate it INTO production. DOT standards. EU standards. Lighting requirements. Noise requirements. Emissions requirements. Any production vehicle needs to be homologated.
Homologation is the accepted term for motorsport approval.
I am familiar with type approval. I see nothing on the Typhon which would prevent it from type approval if it were manufactured by EBR, if this is what Court meant by homologation.
What I do find funny is the length you've gone to with your explanation as if to defend EBR for not being the Typhons creator. I bet they wished they had been though
Rocket in England |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 07:12 am: |
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>>>Homologation is the accepted term for motorsport approval.
That's true. It's a legal process.
I used to enjoy . . . when folks told me "Buell makes 4 models (S1, M2, S3, S3T) explaining that we actually made 27 different models.
The process of homologation, in the pre-cert stage (I still have many of the Buell R&D Development schedules in Primavera) seeks to minimize the number of variants.
For example, if the Netherlands, Thailand, Brasil and Tasmania require 17" center to center for rear signal filaments and Australia requires 18" . . .you can eliminate one model variant by settling on 18". Hopefully the height above the ground, dictated in the USA by FMVSS, works out as well . . . oh yes, the flash rate and color temperature.
One little fiasco I dealt with while at Buell was with the Canadian Ministry of Transport. Some countries d not require a turn signal to fail with a "solid on" indicator on the dash (2 prong) some do (3 prong). We had shipped 7 bikes to Canada with the wrong flasher module.
Seems simple . . send 7 3 prong modules to Deeley and have them change them out prior to distributing bikes to dealers? . . . no way. The build sheets showed the 2 prong and it required the equivalent of a full blown recall to get all the required paperwork changes through the system.
Many folks who claim to know a great deal about motorcycles know very little about the motorcycle business.
I once said, in a monthly column I wrote for a cycling magazine . . . when you, after a couple years and a couple million $$$$ get the best motorcycle you can possibly design through all the various certifications . . .you are 3% of the way to starting a motorcycle company.
The motorcycle, as complicated as it is to get each and every one of those 943 parts certified and in the same place at the same time in the proper quantity and CORRECTLY fabricated (thanks Pretap) . . . is the easy part.
I'm thrilled for the folks at EBR.
I know Erik, who I HOPE is actually taking a day off today and is out spending time with all the kids, is working his ass off as are all of the rapidly growing number of Elves. The mere fact that these bikes exist (there were folks . . get this . . who were actively engaged in "helping" EBR not exist) is nothing short of amazing.
The fact that, even in the very early stages, that respected motorcycle magazines, including some of the folks who had sometimes, without basis, crucified former Buell bikes . . .are having to REALLY work to find the slightest shortcoming in a head-to-head comparison with the finest offering from Ducati . . speaks volumes to the success of what the folks at EBR are doing.
EBR is on track to do amazing things. The band really is back together, has a plan and has more heart, dedication and resolve than ever. I love seeing folks like Dave Gess, who in times gone by would have long ago been retired, putting in 14 hour days. These folks are smart, have a clear plan and have the resources.
The currency offerings are among the BEST MOTORCYCLES EVER MADE. . . not by EBR or Buell . . . but by ANYBODY. Pretty cool for a guy who, just about 5 years ago was wrangling with the leasing agent to find a cheaper space (you know Erik was funding this, for over 3 years, from what should have been his retirement funds) and who I sent computer monitor, a fax machine and business equipment (thanks Amazon) because he, as a one-man show simply didn't have the time to get some of the basics gathered.
They are amazing bikes . . . coming from an amazing group of folks.
I'm both thrilled and proud . . . after >30 years of owning and riding Buells in 44 of these beautiful states . . to see what is happening.
I'm amazed and I expect many more amazing things . . . .
Court |
Smoke
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 07:33 am: |
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I'm amazed and I expect many more amazing things . . . .
Court
me too! Spent a couple days at EBR after the Road America AMA races and it is brilliant how far things have progressed in the last few years since the HD shutdown! HOW do you eat an elephant? 1 bite at a time! Keep on Truckin!
tim |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 08:49 am: |
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Typhon kit
http://www.buell-parts.com/uk/news/32/first_typhon parts_available_soon.html
Hm. January '12, eh? And... the subframe must be customized or manufactured by the costumer
Yep. That's a "production" kit alright.
I'm not slamming the Typhon - yes, it is a cool looking motorcycle and I actually do like the look a lot. But in automotive terms? It's a "street rod", a one-off, a "kit". For the reasons Court mentioned above, plus a slew of others, there is a BIG difference between a production motorcycle...and a "kit".
Certifications, and economies of scale (and "one bite at a time" - great line, Smoke!) for a small company...is exactly why the SX looks like an RX with the fairings removed...and not like a Typhon. They had the parts already. They were certified already. They had the production capability already. So...they built it using the parts, and certifications, and production setup that they already have.
And personally...I like it better than the Typhon. I have a Ulysses, and I have a CR. I do NOT want my CR to look like my Ulysses, and I wouldn't want an SX to look like an XB. I'd MUCH rather have a new look, and new technology - especially in forward lighting (which seems to be where the most criticism is with regards to looks). I'm not letting myself ride an 1190 anytime soon because I'm sure I'm going to fall in love...but when I do? I will confuse the hell out of the salesman by asking if I can ride it after dark. I have no doubt the LED light works great - the Elves know XB and CR lighting was not optimal, and it was easy to "outrun" your headlight at night. I am sure the new light not only meets DOT standards...but meets the needs of a true sportbike that will be ridden after dark. |
Rocket_in_uk
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 01:02 pm: |
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I explained why Be mindful there are a host of other "difficult/impossible to homologate" features is a misleading statement to make of the Typhon. Such could suggest the author meant, if the Typhon meant 'to go racing' rather than to comply with 'type approval' and 'construction and use' regulation. He wasn't clear, which is why I made the point.
I certainly didn't need a lecture on type approval or homologation as I do understand the process, the terminology, and where said terminology is commonly used.
Many folks who claim to know a great deal about motorcycles know very little about the motorcycle business.
Thank you for this rather condescending remark. I am confident it doesn't apply to me
Rocket in England |
Rocket_in_uk
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 01:18 pm: |
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It's a "street rod", a one-off, a "kit". For the reasons Court mentioned above, plus a slew of others, there is a BIG difference between a production motorcycle...and a "kit".
Which we are all familiar with but has no relevance to why or why not the Typhon couldn't be produced by a manufacturer as a production motorcycle.
Certifications, and economies of scale (and "one bite at a time" - great line, Smoke!) for a small company...is exactly why the SX looks like an RX with the fairings removed...and not like a Typhon. They had the parts already. They were certified already. They had the production capability already. So...they built it using the parts, and certifications, and production setup that they already have.
I get that EBR don't have deep enough pockets (yet?), but the Typhon doesn't present me with anything that couldn't be mass produced market ready. Nor does the Hastur come to it.
Rocket in England |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 03:40 pm: |
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There is second part to my knowledge axiom that applies here and to several other threads lately.
1. "The more you know the more you know there is more you don't know."_Greg Tonn
2. "The more you don't know the more what you do know seems like all there is to know."_Greg Tonn
G |
Crusty
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 03:52 pm: |
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All I know is what I read in the newspaper.
I don't read newspapers. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 03:57 pm: |
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"Nobody knows what they don't know until they know it."- Livio Dante Porta |
Sifo
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 04:40 pm: |
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I know Jack!
He's a nice guy. |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 09:54 pm: |
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Tim did they check your pockets for a 1190 motor ? lol |
Smoke
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2014 - 05:34 am: |
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they left me alone a few times Ken! HAHA! |
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