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7873jake
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pondering a great deal on a couple of new (2014) Jetta "Shportvagens" with TDI.

Any voices of experience with VW klackers, especially the newer ones?

Been combing TDI forums and doing some other research but thought I'd see if any BW'ers were also TDI junkies.
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Torquehd
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 01:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mom has an '02 Jetta TDI, bought in '04. It was high maintenance the first couple years she owned it - oil leak, timing belt (it was higher mileage, i think). But it's been good the past 4 or 5 years. She gets exceptional fuel mileage, north of 40MPG.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 02:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

'09 Tdi Sportwagen.
No diesel fluid but "the flapper valve" was replaced under warranty. Later than '11 use the urea based anti-particulate juice iirc. The mechanics bitch about the '11-13 models replacing turbos but that's supposed to be fixed for '14.

Other than mice related problems & hitting a reindeer Christmas Eve I am happy.
Mileage is 40+ at 70 mph. Real world 36..... 32 in winter. I regret not yet buying the water heater because it takes a few miles to warm up.

Suggest a skid pan..... one is on my list for this year.
Be aware that in winter you can can start your Tdi and let it run for 30 minutes and the windshield will still be snow covered. Super efficiency has it's downsides. The Tdi forums suggest turning on all the heat.....seats....rear window & mirrors to try and put a load on it to make it work harder......

Let's just say I've spent some time scraping & really love heated seats.
Good car some quirks.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Btw .... the Sportwagens have The GTI chassis & suspension. Double plus good.
Better than many BMW's.

The Jetta sedans do not. Much cheaper bits underneath.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

O6 TDI Jetta here. It has the older "pump duese" (sp?) engine w/individual injector pumps for each cylinder. Apparently oil type is crucial to the cams holding up on theses engines. I think that's less of an issue with the older and newer TDI's.

That said, no issues w/mine in ~120k miles.

Torque rules!
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Mr_grumpy
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What Hugh said about the pompe deuse engines is correct, oil change often & only the best oil.

Most modern Commercial trucks use the urea additive (called ad-blu in europe) to get emissions down so it's not hard to get. That said I'll not be buying a car with it, it's a rip-off, yes it does reduce exhaust emissions, but when you factor in the waste & energy used to produce & distribute the stuff, I can't for the life of me see any ecological gain.
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Cataract2
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 05:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

2002 New Beetle TDI. 190,000 miles on it. Still running great.
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The PD engines do not require frequent oil changes. One at 5k, one at 10k, and then every 10k. But you must use oil that meets the vw spec. There are several. It isn't any more expensive than an other high quality synthetic, but you're unlikely to find it at a gas station in a pinch. Carry one in the trunk. On the plus side, I've yet to have to add any between changes. And as stated, the cam lobes will wear off if you use the wrong oil. The cam lobes are narrow so there's room for the pump lobes.

I get 40 mpg in town, a bit more on the highway. Less if I'm towing.

Other than a crack in the windshield washer fluid housing, I have had to do exactly zero repairs. The timing belt will need to be replaced soon, but most cars need that eventually. I am extremely happy with mine.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The P-d engine is the old one. . It's pretty darn good
The newer engine '09 up has higher pressure direct injection and has been steadily improved. I have the first US year. Still requires the premium synthetic oil. 10k oil changes per book. I do at 5k because I'm crazy or conservative.

A word about handling. Stiff chassis. Feels like one piece of solid steel. Real good suspension bits and I have to admit VW's bragging about handling is true. You can feel the road most excellently. .....which also means you always can feel the road.

I like it. It's the tradeoff you get without going to very expensive multi ride shocks. The GTI is a sports car......or hot hatch. The Sportwagen is the stealth version.

Torque.
***s yes and plenty of it. At highway speed it never downshifts for hills ( that my Ford van would downshift twice on ) just carries you along on a wave of torque.

While I would never engage in a "speed contest" on public roads. .......let's just say I have embarrassed several fast trucks and cars. But I only accelerate to the legal speed limit in a timely and safe manner. The guys blowing past me after that?
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The above remarks on handling are for the mark V & VI versions. The Mk IV and earlier are not as solid felling IMHO. The do get better mileage and are lighter. None of that matters to you since you're looking at a Mk VI.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My 2006 was actually built in 2007. Emissions regs changed for the 2007 model year and VW wasn't ready with a new engine. Somehow they were able to make an extended run of 2006 models legally. Mine is a "Diesel Edition" with some special badging and several minor differences from the regular 2006 TDI model. IIRC, it's also 110 HP instead of 100 HP like the regular production 2006's. The 2009-up engines are something like 140 HP IIRC.

Mine does pretty good with only 110 HP though. I took a co-worker (who's regular ride was a big Dodge V-8 truck) to ride to lunch in it a few years ago. He commented "This thing accelerates pretty good for only a V-6." He was pretty shocked when I told him it was a 4-cylinder diesel.

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7873jake
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This is awesome. In 11 posts, I've gotten more information than I've compiled in several days of parsing and clipping off of other boards.

My company builds command and control vehicles for law enforcement, military, DoD support contractors and banks. Each project typically starts on either a Freightliner M2 or Sprinter chassis so DEF (urea based SCR ingredient) is one of those things I realized going in to the research of the TDI. As you guys indicated, our Freightliner sales guy said as well...torque galore. He recently traded his Jetta TDI in after 150,000 mi for an E-class Bluetec sedan.


My real issues/concerns were centered around the daily life with one and the cost of ownership. My daughter's car is a Toyota Matrix, wife drives the new Avalon, the family van is a 170,000 mi Mazda MPV. Each one is a strong argument for going back to their respective brands but the Jetta wagon appeals to me without having to go to Audi or BMW for thousands more to get a German estate. The M-B is just toooo out there on price.

I've read that lubrication is likely the biggest issue that pre-owned units struggle with, i.e. P.O. didn't use correct type resulting in all sorts of issues incl. turbo problems/failures. For that reason, and because of our dealer status (I have easier access to new units versus PO/CPO units), I will likely go new.

I was concerned about cold weather performance for the 16 days a year that we get to/around 32 degrees in the mornings. Central Florida has its (few) benefits and they aren't the roads or terrain.

I will continue down this road as I really like the Mk VI unit's fit, finish and aesthetic. I didn't know that the wagon uses the more robust GTI bits. The GTI is on the short list of alternatives if I don't go wagon on this. Really enjoyed the test drives I've had in those cars. Reaalllly enjoyed.

Hootowl, you mentioned the timing belt. Is that changeable by an owner or does it need to go to the shop for that? I rarely surrender a car before 100k miles so timing belts are always an assumed responsibility on most of my cars.

Oddly, I've not taken time to test drive the new wagon so I can't wait to see what "only" a 4-cyl diesel moves like.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Biggest thing with ANY turbo is cool down time. Shut it off right after a hard run and the oil in the turbo bearings "cokes" - turns into dry carbon. As you can imagine...they don't like that.

DEF? Get it at the pump at a Flying J. I filled my Grand Cherokee's 8 gal tank for $17 and it should last north of 5000 miles. Factory says 10k but I do lots of short hops.

Not much TDI experience here but I will say between my 01 Cummins Ram and the new 14 Grand Cherokee diesel...I'll never buy another gasser unless its on 2 wheels. Or an Ariel. Just too many good things about diesels.

Also check into the heat - my Grand has an aux electric heater just like a heat pump. Vents blow hot inside 5 miles, even in single digits. I'd be surprised if VW hasn't adopted something similar.
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

32????????


It tells you it's below 40f...... for slick road reasons.

My complaints are at 0 to -25.....
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Timing belt...

Yes, you can do it yourself. Check tdiclub and vwvortex. Lots of good info.

I, however, plan to hire it out.
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Thumper74
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 03:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My full time gig is doing extended warranty claims and the TDI cars are pretty recent. I can only recall the occasional vacuum pump leaking oil, so it's not like it failed and left anyone without vacuum assist on the brakes. I don't recall any other issues. I have seen the cam love fail on the direct injection gas models though.
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7873jake
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Was waiting to see if anyone was going to pick up on my concerns about 16 days of 32 degree weather in the mornings.

Bitterly cold days usually get up to 45 before dropping back down in to the upper 30s. Just like to make sure a car I'm considering is up to the task.
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Johnnylunchbox
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I know in the older versions (circa 2003+) a must was an EGR valve delete kit. The amount of crud produced by the EGR was amazing.
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 06:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Starts fine at -20. You may have to take the time to fasten your seatbelt before cranking at that temp. At 32?
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Aeholton
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

We have a 2013 Passat TDI we bought last June. Barely has 5,000 miles on it. No problems yet. We are VW people. My wife had a 2003 Beetle, 2008 Jetta, and now the Passat. Love the torque of the TDI.
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 07:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Re: costs.

In NY diesel is more expensive than premium. $4.54 gal. last fill.

VWs cost to take to be fixed. More than a typical Japanese car but far less than a Mercedes. Consumer Reports lists the top Merc suv as stupid expensive and fairly crappy. Expect a Mercedes to break down.
If you buy the uber luxury suv Expect to pay for a Honda Fit in repair costs.

Full disclosure. I think the quality of Mopars dropped bad when they got taken over by Daimler. They seem to have come back pretty good. We'll see how the fix it again tony guys do..... but so far so good.
Not a Merc fan. They do make impressive cars. I just think they drop the ball on QC. That's from a QC pro.
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Torque!
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You won't have a temperature issue. Above 32 you don't even need to wait for the glow plugs.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's one thing I've learned with the Ecodiesel in the '14 Grand. Cold? Who cares...

My '01 Cummins? Block heater...PLEASE. It flat will not start below 20 degrees F without it. The Eco? No block heater (well, the heater is there but no cord - it's an option that I don't appear to need). Remote start, negative temps (F) this winter...double-click, horn beeps once...five seconds later, beeps again and she's rattlin' away in the garage warming up for me.

Direct injection systems these days...with fuel filter heaters and grid heaters and all sorts of good stuff...really could care less about cold. Super-cold (-20 or more, regularly), it's still nice to use anti-gel additives...but right at freezing? Just drive. It'll be fine.
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7873jake
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just recently had to undergo high and low ambient temp tests on Ford F-series 6.7L diesels. High ambient was no issue: 120F. Low ambient was -40F. Struggle struggle struggle.
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Xdigitalx
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 09:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe I should have been a bus mechanic,.. I love the smell of the diesel exhaust from those public transportation buses.
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