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Midknyte
Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/29/mark-one-3d-pri nter-carbon-fiber/
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 07:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wonder how long it would take to print a P-51 Mustang?

A buddy has his home made 3d printer melt down. The thermistor that measures the temperature of the nozzle had a wire come loose, and convinced the nozzle was cold, the machine kept pumping juice into it. The house was not seriously damaged. The smell woke them up first. With a machine like that, you start it, and walk away, since it's going to take hours to do a larger piece. He's made some cool stuff, like a skull of gears. Or is that a geared skull?
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Ferris_von_bueller
Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

read the comments under that article. It's not true carbon fiber
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Sifo
Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was wondering how you could print fiber. The whole idea of fiber is long strands. That doesn't really go along with 3D printing that I can see. That doesn't mean there may not be good applications, but I have doubts about it replacing CF layup.
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Torquehd
Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 10:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I read the comments below - wasn't able to find one stating that it wasn't real carbon fiber. What was the discrediting comment?

If this is indeed true carbon fiber, it could be optimized with programming. For example:
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Rocket_in_uk
Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 07:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Am I imagining machines that make billets of CF?


Rocket in England
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It apparently lays down a continuous single strand of carbon fiber. The printing part is the resin it puts around the strand.
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 11:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It apparently lays down a continuous single strand of carbon fiber. The printing part is the resin it puts around the strand.

Well that makes more sense, and would be better than what I was envisioning. It does seem like it would have some pretty severe limitations though, only being able to orientate the fiber in certain directions. Still, there will be applications where this would work well. Winding CF around a mandrel to make a tube is a great example of this, but isn't really new. I've shattered many examples of those from back in the 80's and 90's. I don't thing that's really quite the same technology as 3D printing though. 3D printing would have that same tube having virtually zero fibers running near parallel to the tube orientation. Not at all what you are looking for in most CF tubes.
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah, not sure how you'd make parts that aren't flat.
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 06:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah, not sure how you'd make parts that aren't flat.

That's easy, and shown in the video. Here's a screen grab.





Making something that's more than just a coil of fibers is another thing. I would imagine that a lot of complex shapes would be problematic. I wonder if they can cut the fiber, then start laying it down again in a different spot. Even then, it's use has real limits IMO.
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That was my point. In order to have fibers that run the length of the project, and not simply piled on top of each other in circles, it would have to be flat. Well, best of luck to them anyway.
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The fibers in a composite structure are arranged both for strength, and manufacturability. A good example is the B-2 bomber that is largely made from robot applied carbon fiber tape. The orientation of the tapes makes it strong in ways that cannot be done with monolithic materials like steel. ( we'll skip the whole engineering chapter on crystalline structure )

There's aluminum structure underneath in the cockpit area, and other places, as well as titanium and other metals. It takes careful design to bolt composites together and to other things, like engines and motors. ( flaps, elevons, etc. ) Often it's easier to bond metal inserts to give you something to bolt to. Imagine ham fisted mechanics used to metal structure reefing down a bolt in fiberglass....

You can also use chopped up carbon fiber in a resin or plastic matrix to give strength to a design, but that doesn't allow for oriented strength. Like chopper guns with fiberglass boat construction. Heavier and weaker, but more economical in some cases.

One of the more extreme examples of oriented strength is with the X-29.

Regular swept wings, when a load is put on them tend to bend up at the tips and dump the load. Forward Swept wings bend up at the tips and catch more air, increasing the load, increasing the twist, increa...... a positive feedback response that leads to failure. ( the wings rip off. ) To make it stiff enough in metal it becomes too heavy to be practical.


http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp ?aircraft_id=352

Today, this tech is so common it's a yawn, but it was hot stuff a while ago.

The Gossamer Albatross, the first human powered plane to cross the English Channel, had a frame made of carbon fiber hand wrapped around aluminum tubing, and then the tubing was acid etched away, leaving a light structure. ( using pool chemicals, IIFC )

I talked with Paul MacCready about the installation of the Gossamer Condor at the Smithsonian. They had donated it to the museum, and were thrilled to do so. When they showed up on the appointed day, the aircraft in a van, they were met with a work crew and a crane capable of lifting a small airliner. Then the hard part, getting the Smithsonian folk to understand that a plane with a 96 foot wingspan not only fit in the van, but only weighed 70 pounds. There was some fuss while the Smithsonian folk re-figured out where to put the darn thing, and then moving other exhibits around to assemble, lift and hang it. The crane WAS used to move a few suspension points at the ceiling, and the rest was done by hand with ropes. MacCready told me the weirdest moment was when he was helping to make sure the Condor didn't hit the Wright Flyer, as he saw the oldest Airplane hanging next to the newest one in the museum.

I've flown a Wright glider replica, and Orville and Wilber had balls so big I don't know how they walked. The Wright flyer is not a stable aircraft.
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