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Buell Forum » Quick Board » Archive through November 06, 2014 » Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism, Proves Theism? « Previous Next »

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Archive through September 20, 2014Torquehd30 09-20-14  05:37 pm
Archive through March 11, 2014Aesquire30 03-11-14  09:56 pm
Archive through February 05, 2014Aesquire30 02-05-14  05:11 pm
Archive through February 01, 2014Pwnzor30 02-01-14  01:34 pm
Archive through January 30, 2014Ft_bstrd30 01-30-14  06:10 pm
         

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Torquehd
Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2014 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've been trying to think of a way to wrap my head around transcending time.

Let's assume time is linear, and occurs chronologically as we know it.

Bob is a two dimensional stick figure. He has length and width, and his world is a plane. He also understands time, so he has a total of three dimensions, just lacking height. This is a common illustration for understanding dimensions.

A dozen times throughout the course of Bob's life, a point appears in his plane. The point turns into a sort of oval, then disappears. Bob doesn't think much of it.

Bob dies. God brings Bob into a three dimensional world, having length, width, height, but not subject to the limits imposed by time. Bob is now a three dimensional, tubular man, instead of a collection of line segments.

God shows Bob what appears to be a stack of panes of glass. Bob realizes that this glass was the plane (world) he lived on. Each pane is like a frame of a video, but instead of being a review of the past, these panes contain time itself. This is how time is made, and kept. Stacked on top of eachother, Bob can see the entire span of his life, but it's fuzzy because of the many overlaps.

God pulls out a few individual panes of glass, so that Bob can see them more clearly. Bob says, "wow, that's really neat".

Then God, who is able to transcend time, stacks 12 panes of glass together, and pushes the tip of his finger through the stack.

Then Bob remembers the dozen times he saw the point become the circle. Bob realizes that he is looking at the past, but a dozen times in the past, he was also seeing the future. The events in the "past" couldn't have happened without originating in what Bob thinks of as the "future".

That's the best I can come up with.

I also like to think of time as a sheet of clear plastic, which can be rolled up, so that time can wrap around itself and be stretched and pulled.

None of those ideas are accurate, of course.

Anyone have better ideas?

(Message edited by torquehd on September 20, 2014)
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Ourdee
Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2014 - 10:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Let's see; If God is the observer, Observing repentance. Should he forgive (forget) the sin, does he create a new back history to accomplish this?
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Torquehd
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 01:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No. Forgiveness, redemption, and repentance require the initial presence of iniquity.

Don't know about you, but I've commited a lot of sins, and if my "back history" has changed, i'd hate to see what it was like before.

God doesn't require that sin never happened in order to admit you into His holy presence. Rather, he requires atonement - and an ultimate atonement was made for all. His son, Jesus Christ, who was tempted in every way that we are tempted, and yet was perfect. He was the perfect sacrifice, and gave himself up to death and condemnation, so that we don't have to. But it doesn't stop there. Because Jesus was perfect, he was not bound by condemnation. He rose again, and ascended to the highest place, at God's right hand. Thus He is our hope and promise of salvation. Through grace, and by no righteousness of flawed man.

Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me". Those words are as true as they are exclusive. And perhaps the most important words ever spoken.

Jesus was both God and man. Factor that into quantum calculation. He was everything, and yet one fixed thing, at the same time. He existed outside of time and locality, and yet was fixed into a specific time and locality, at the same time. He was pure energy, and yet material. He was a wave of potential, and yet fixed at a definable point.
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Buellinmke
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 02:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

LOL you worship Jesus Christ. Reality check - you do realize that the core of your belief relies upon a once-human deity which subsequently died the earthly life of man, supposedly sacrificing itself for the earthly sins of man, then resurfacing from the rotten dead corpse of a man into the walking dead zombie version of man that you worship now? Really???? How did you get so effing stupid???? LOL!!!!!! JESUS ZOMBIE DEAD IDIOT GOD!!!!
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Alfau
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 05:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Christianity doesn't make sense when perverted with crap like that, plus santa and the easter bunny.
Muslims believe Christians are stupid for believing that crap.

get a grip on the facts.



(Message edited by alfau on October 06, 2014)
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Blake
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 09:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Joe,

What is your ultimate authority?

What is truth on your world view?

If you were somehow convinced that Christianity as defined by the four Gospels is indeed absolutely true, would you then worship God?
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 09:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not interested in truth, only hurling insults. It's what I've grown to expect from militant atheists whose personal belief system isn't as important to them as everyone else's.
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Kenm123t
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Now who says there are not demons to confound and confuse Believers?

Get thee behind me satan

We need to pray for the lost souls. Even those that hate us

And the Armour wearing medieval types
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Sifo
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 12:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Candidate for a coexist sticker?
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Kenm123t
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Naw Sifo We do need to pray for those that need to come to faith.
With Patric its a twofer We are praying for him and get to pester him at the same time. kindness is the best weapon look how it annoys demons liberals oops being redundant there lol
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Froggy
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

How did you get so effing stupid???? LOL!!!!!! JESUS ZOMBIE DEAD IDIOT GOD!!!!




That is likely one of the most embarrassing things I've seen posted by someone claiming to be an atheist.


quote:

kindness is the best weapon




Indeed it is, it is one of the messages that My Little Pony constantly conveys.
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Pwnzor
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 08:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

God bless you, Froggy.

And God bless you, Buellinmke.

Trust in the Lord forever, for the Lord, the Lord himself, is the Rock eternal.
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Kenm123t
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Now Frogster about that pony thing. Blake Court this one is your problem! I m busy with Patric lol

Now the Zombie fan Well Christians getting under your skin Its not us Its Jesus he will get your attention the easy way or the hard way
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 09:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If the message is to love one another does it matter if it's from a telekinetic pony or a bearded man in a robe?

I'm comfortable with my faith.
I will not lie about it, I will not proselytize, and I won't insist you believe what I do. I respect other faiths in the measure my heart tells me they deserve.

This puts me 180 degrees to immoderate Islam, and at least 98 degrees off from militant atheists of the "adolescent rejection of authority" types... although to be honest I went through that phase with as little thought for other's feelings as any. I kept looking past "duh, church is dumb" and studied the other faiths and where their beauty and wisdom was.

Not saying you're wasting your time Kenm.... the practice of intellect to advance your cause can only improve your skills. You are however unlikely to convert me.
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Ourdee
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If He does create a "new back history", why do we hold onto the old one?

If an all knowing God forgets your past sin, would that mean that it has to be nonexistent in order that He still be all knowing?

I was not trying to be flippant. Nor was I trying to start a Holy war. At my questions point in the thread there appeared to have been enough respect shown to explore expanded parameters in the case of the observer. I was not trying to preach Christ and Him crucified, rather exploring what could be the nature of the observer and the possible effect on Him in relationship to the ramifications of what his observation may or may not cause.

Now if there is a desire for preaching, I could open a new thread. Though I do not feel called or lead in that direction, I have been instant in and out of season. So, please, let us get back on topic?
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Kenm123t
Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 11:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Patric I wont convert you you have to do that for your self. We would miss you over eternity Your too much fun to leave behind. Damn your the only Druid we know lol Saul to Paul hehe look it up
To the Hammer the Lutefisk is to lite for this hard head
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Kenm123t
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2014 - 12:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ourdee a better description maybe a Pardon with your record expunged. Some one that can read the original texts with the meaning of the day would your best bet. For a better understanding of Redemption.

The OP basically supports the the word of God being the source of all existence.

It appears science is beginning to support that. Its too soon to say its settled Science
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2014 - 12:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Science is never settled.

A Jesuit would tell you without doubt there can be no faith.

Looking to test tubes to define God is looking in the wrong place ( even though you may find Her there ).

Doing math tricks with the Bible to do divination for the date of the apocalypse is trying to do sorcery or fortune telling about a prophesy that actually specifies prediction is futile.

One may be wishful the other hubris.

Then again....... I could be wrong.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2014 - 12:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Kenm..... are you trying to emulate Rocket?

You don't insult me by calling me Druid any more than he can succeed by calling me a Jew. ( he was being hateful......you are joking )

Druids are a Pagan faith sure..... I'm not one. The mysteries approach aren't straightforward enough for me. Neat robes though.
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Kenm123t
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2014 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was referring to your dressing in rusty Armour. I think of English men capering around a tree. lol And Shakespeare's witches around the jousting field.
That a the lack of Social Development of the Uk in about 6 centurys messes up my time line
Too many bad Douglas Fairbanks jr movies lol Or was that Richard Boone ?
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2014 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I liked Tony Curtis as a Viking with a Brooklyn accent. Kirk Douglas, Ernest Borgnine, Janet Leigh, Classic!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052365/
Watch the trailer....

No relation to actual history, but a true classic to stand with Forbidden Planet.
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Kenm123t
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2014 - 11:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Now Forbidden Planet Kinda fits the thread. What are you Imagining?

Ms Francis has the same smile as my Sweety
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2014 - 07:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The fate of the Krell is a warning.

If you haven't seen Forbidden Planet do so.

Classic movie, often "borrowed", on my short list far above "Citizen Kane".
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2014 - 03:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.iflscience.com/physics/when-parallel-wo rlds-collide-quantum-mechanics-born#

http://journals.aps.org/prx/abstract/10.1103/PhysR evX.4.041013#fulltext

hmm.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2014 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

From that first article:

"Now quantum mechanics is the most widely applicable and successful physical theory of all time" …

"There are several competing interpretations of quantum mechanics and each one gives a quite different portrayal of the ultimate nature of reality." …

"First, we postulate a fixed, although truly gigantic, number of worlds. All of these exist continuously through time – there is no “branching”." …

"there is no Heisenberg uncertainty principle that applies to a single world."

Sounds like something other than science. Time itself had a beginning. I'm surprised they didn't tie dark matter to their "theory" as well.

The so-called "wave function", really a probability function for the behavior of particles, has been verified even for molecules, and scientists are reportedly looking to demonstrate it for cell sized items.

Then again...

"Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, October 31, 2014 - 12:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm still trying to digest this one.

Parts make perfect sense, as .quantum weirdness goes. They say it helps make the math come out.

I also remember epicycles instead of ellipses for orbital calculations, and if you tack on epicycles for each gravity well, it makes the math come out. So this bears watching.

One concept that intrigues me is the idea that an isolated "universe" (reality bubble seems like a good analogy ) would have "make sense laws of physics", and perhaps perfect deterministic outcomes. It would be the 19th century clockwork world where you could predict everything if you had perfect data.

Quantum physics trashed that view.

But if each bubble was normally certain, and the other bubbles reacting with it make it "fuzzy" aka uncertain.... that implies that the decision makes new bubbles idea has merit.

Or to phrase it in religious terms. G-d made the universe perfect and then gave her creations free will. Our choices determine the path of our world.

Viewed as branching choice paths like spaghetti in near infinite strands has some merit but I suspect that the collapse of choices concept is just a handy mental image and at each now constantly creates the only universe we get.

Or not.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, October 31, 2014 - 01:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://youtu.be/oBsI_ay8K70

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