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Crusty
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 09:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just thought folks here would like to see how another marque specific forum is looking at EBR.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=67295.0

I think nearly everybody is pulling for the American Sportbike manufacturer.
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46champ
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 09:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They treated erik's bikes well. The guzzi guys are way harder on Motus than we ever are. Cept for court of course.
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>The guzzi guys are way harder on Motus than we ever are. Cept for court of course.

How have I ever been hard on Motus?

I went to one of their events, joined their club, bought the hats, key chains and shirts . . . . and expressed, based on over 20 years of involvement in the motorcycle business, my concern that I struggled to believe their claim that they'd be selling in large numbers by 2013.

I'd love to stay and talk but I'm going to head over to the Motus dealer and wander the showroom looking at all the new models.

:-)
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

By the way . . . . long time readers here, going back to the 1994 era . . . will recall one of the things I've always said. Once you developed, designed, sourced and produced and EXCELLENT motorcycle . . . . you are about 3% of the way toward a "motorcycle company".

The Motus guys have hearts of gold.I met them at one of the events and ask them a few, what should have been simple, questions.

They really didn't have any idea about some of the very basic parts of setting up a manufacturing operation.
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Wolfridgerider
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd love to stay and talk but I'm going to head over to the Motus dealer and wander the showroom looking at all the new models

dang its cold
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46champ
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

court I didn't say you were wrong just said you were hard on the dreamers.
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Court
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 08:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fair observation.

It wasn't my intent to be harsh. I, too, admire the dreamers and doers. . . . including the folks at Motus.

I confess that part of my comment was motivated following a conversation with one of the founders, who didn't know who I was or my involvement in the industry, and gave me a real run down on how they were headed to the big time and not going to make the mistakes Erik Buell had.

Listening to the guy trash someone who had basically accomplished, big time, what he was hoping to do didn't sit well.

I also got perturbed when I asked about the proposed MSRP and was told they didn't know. Not knowing, when you have prototype bikes out and about, is a fatal error. MSRP is one of the early design constraints in the first stages of starting a new project.

If he'd said "we're not saying, or committing, to anything yet" that'd been different. I suggested where I thought it needed, as an upscale sport-tourer, to be priced to enjoy sufficient demand to produce and he basically told me, at $20,000, I was out of my mind and it was "worth a lot more than that".

We'll see,

To date, and if someone is more fluent than I . . I'm eager to be corrected, they've not met a single promise they'd made regarding delivery.

I chalk it up to over enthusiasm and lack of attention to the details of the business, as opposed to the product.

Time will tell.

But . . bottom line . . I love watching folks willing to take chances and chase dreams.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Court, was that Brian or Lee?
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Uncle
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Regarding Motus....a cool bike and I hope they do well, but I don't care what type of bike it is, you're not going to sell a high volume of $30,000 motorcycles. Just my 2 cents.
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Rkc00
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 10:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Brian and Lee were both there. I don't remember which one said it. I was with Court at the time
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I could see Brian saying that. He tends to not be as "tempered".

Lee's much more of a strategic salesman.
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Court
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 12:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't recall either and, frankly, chalked it up to the euphoria of the "rollout" event.

If memory serves ..... They were on the verge of going into production. I joined their "club", bought the hats, shirts and stuff but have never heard another word in the couple years that have passed.

They must be REALLY close now.

I see they are hiring. I know EBR has hired 90 folks in the last 12 months. I'll have to start checking the Motus press releases and seeing what they are up to.
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Strokizator
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They had a booth set up at last years MotoGP in Laguna Seca. The bike looked about 90 - 95% ready for production. The engine is a looker and we'll have to wait to see how the complete package shakes out.

If any product takes too long to come to market it will no longer be leading edge technology but yesterday's old news instead. Case in point is GM's Saturn division. It was promised to be a unique car built in a unique fashion. All cutting edge stuff. By the time it hit the showrooms several years later it was nothing special.
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Arcticktm
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Motus was at the event Ohlins USA had in their parking lot this past fall (Hendersonville, NC). They brought a couple bikes. they seemed to keep to themselves. Did not even attempt to speak with any of when we looked over the bikes.
The local Triumph dealer was there, and they were getting way more attention and traffic.
I hadn't seen a Moti in person, and was quite disappointed with the result and price. The 1990's style fairing treatment isn't helping, either.
Looks like a parts bin bike built around an interesting (but not ground breaking) engine.
Did not look like a finished production bike, IMHO.
I admire folks willing to take the risk, but get frustrated when it appears they are so out of touch with the market they claim to be after.
It'll be relegated to a novelty bike.
I supposed if that is what their business model was, then that might be OK, but I think they thought they'd sell in numbers (as Court already said).

An EBR at under $19k exposes their price as crazy, since they both had to do an engine (which is the REALLY expensive part), but EBR also did a LOT more custom chassis and sub-system work. No parts bin look to the EBR for sure.
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Jaimec
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 01:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had a brief conversation with "someone" from Motus at Americade a couple of years back. They had a couple of bikes on display that you could sit on, but no demo bikes you could ride.

My one question to them was why, when they designed a sport TOURING bike with a longitudinally mounted engine, did they feel the need to bend the "power" 90 degrees to fit a chain when a crankshaft would've been perfectly natural for that layout.

It's a question I've asked here before too. I don't buy the "better performance" line either. If they were building a sportBIKE, I MIGHT understand... but the TOURING part of "Sport TOURER" to me means minimal fussing on the road, maximum RIDING time.

Don't go building a bike with a low-maintenance, hydraulic valve train, and then turn around and force me to lubricate, adjust, and eventually replace a drive chain when I'd rather be off chasing the next horizon.

PS: The price they were asking was ridiculous, too. For what they wanted, I could've purchased a fully-loaded K1600GTL and had money left over for the first several tankfuls of gas.

(Message edited by jaimec on January 23, 2014)
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The discussion I had with Brian and Lee concerning the shaft drive is that they simply didn't want to try to tackle developing one.

Additionally, with the transmission configuration as a separate "Baker Style" detached component, the shaft drive would necessitate "a change in the rear swing arm attachment configuration as well as potentially increase the wheel base".

Not necessarily agreeing with it, but that was the explanation I got.
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Firstbuell
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 05:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

that explanation makes sense to me
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