| Author | Message | ||
     Etennuly |
Now that I have a few months of zipping around East Tennessee in my C4 Vette, compared to nearly seven years on the Uly, my current results are in. I can tell you that on these twisty roads I can ride the Uly comfortably faster. I have some favorite roads that I ride by picking a speed and seeing if I can hold it through the length of that twisted road. Most of the roads are cut into the sides of mountains or twist along waterways in the valleys. They are awesome for sure. With the excessive rains we have had this year the grasses along the berms are three feet or so high. This really limits seeing through a corner in the Vette. On the Uly you can simply see over the vegetation. Guard rail are a vision blocker also. Last night on one of my favorite 14 mile shots, I found the Vette to be about 6 miles per hour slower than my Uly due to the blind corner effect. I do this at a quick comfortable pace never crossing a center line and being considerate of oncoming traffic. They both 'feel so good' I wonder which I could run faster on a track where there is no on coming traffic, potential speeding tickets, people or animals, no visual detrimental stuff and such?  Multi-source permagrin is an awesome thing!  | ||
| Ftd |
I don't know about Vette vs Uly but if you looked up tracks where F1 cars and motoGP bikes both hold races you'll be shocked at the differences in P1 times. | ||
| Hootowl |
Down force gives the cars a real cornering advantage. | ||
| Ftd |
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4g4RxOl39B4&desktop_u ri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D4g4RxOl39B4 Neat video. | ||
| Teeps |
When I ride the Malibu Canyon roads. I like to stay on the right side of my lane when the corner is blind. And, on my side of the center line at all times. Even at that sedate pace, it still exceeds the posted limits by 10 mph or more... | ||
| Etennuly |
This particular road is posted 45 mph for 14 miles with corner speeds posted as low as 20 mph. The longest straight is about a half mile long, the only passing zone on the road. On the Uly I can handle all but two of the corners at 60 mph. Less than 55 was it in the Vette. One of the biggest differences aside from being able to see over the vision blocking hazards, is that on the Uly the G-forces are pushing you down into the seat due to the lean angles. In the Vette the G-forces are lateral and you really feel it in long tight corners. The Vette has seat belts that have a 'cinch' lock. I will have to try that next time out. I keep forgetting it is there. All of my racing stuff was done with a tight five way harness that held me firmly in place. The bike also is easy to lean into the corners with little effort. The wise engineers at GM put 'feel' into their steering systems that actually take a lot of effort in steering the car around a good long corner. It would be easier to handle by kicking the rear out and counter steering through a corner. I have a book on how to set up the car for track days. I guess that is going to be a good place to start. | ||
| Kenm123t |
VERN 335s on back 285 on front get something sticky lean seat back lean like a bike in the Vette I have aZR1 C4 it will get it what suspension do you have? 3 way electronic shocks or Z51? I can torment the hell out of Nsx nissans etc that buddys have but takes a little work in 3600lb car | ||
| Etennuly |
3600 lb car? Specs say 3239 lb. You counting yourself and full of gas? ZR1? Oh, so you have that power problem.....you know.....plenty of power?  This one is an '86, 4+3 manual, 55,000 mile car. Nice and tight for the year. A new 350 due to the original rusting up after sitting 15 years. Originally 230 HP this one has a half point more compression and a cam matched to when they rated at 250 hp or so. Z51 suspension with the factory Bilstein shocks. I had a new '94 LT1, 300 hp automatic, back in the day. At that time I lived in Florida and had only one curvy road within fifty miles of me.....and a couple real nice looping freeway ramps! But then, I also got to do Sebring International Speedway track touring, at speed. That was when I found out stock brakes suck! I also found out that when the rear Goodyear Eagles start to break loose, they let go of traction completely. Once I get it sorted out I intend to look into a track day somewhere. I'd like to take the bike on the same day to see which I can pound around a track faster. | ||
| Jramsey |
If you can get thru the twisties faster on a bike than a car you're a better rider than driver. | ||
| Kenm123t |
can you say LINGENFELTER Vern they can fix your Hp issues a 383 Is great in a c4 | ||
| Davegess |
u have a lot more road to play with on a bike. On a track the car smokes the bike every time. | ||
| Deanh8 |
I have a C5 Z06, also a XB and 1125.. I never really tried to compare them like this they are totally different types of driving/riding. I can pretty much wail the shit out of the bikes and never have any issues, the C5Z on the other hand can get out from under you faster then you can feel it. I dont think id feel comfortable pushing it through turns as hard as I can push my bikes, on the street. | ||
| Etennuly |
Dean knows what I am feeling. I don't have near the power he does but being an idiot of sorts I can put it in too deep to the point of that explosive spin out. I spun my '94 on the hair pin corner at Sebring by trying to powerslide through it. I drove in fairly hard with the traction control off and fed it some fuel. When the tires just began to spin it exploded into a 360. On a street around here that would have had me into a wall or off a cliff. I think that as street vehicles, that they would be more even on a track mostly because you could see more of the corner in the car without fear of reprisals. Ken, I spoke with Lingenfelter at an Ekler's Vette show in '96. He was working hard at that time tuning the line of '84 to '92 Vettes trying to make them run correctly. De-tuning knock sensors and installing power chips and such. I can build my own Chevy engines for power, but I want that drive-ability and gas mileage also. If I were to spend a bunch of money there I would just get into a C5 with an LS power plant. I kind of fell into this car on a trade deal and I am having a ball with it. Not unlike loving to ride the Uly, but not wanting to spend on a new EBR 1190. Like Cindi Lauper said "Money Changes Everything!" | ||
| Etennuly |
Jramsey,If you can get thru the twisties faster on a bike than a car you're a better rider than driver That is part of my point, but isn't always so. My eyes are about 36" off the ground in the Vette. On the Uly my eyes are at nearly 60". You drive to where you can see when in hauling ass mode. If I can see over the guard rails and vegetation, and through a corner, I can do it much faster than if I have tunnel vision seeing only the road, and it's hazards, directly in front of me. It is a much more comfortable ride being able to pick your lines before you get there. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Dean are you on run flats or regular tires C4 s will stick pretty much to the edge then step out on you so drifting is sometimes better C4 Coupes get twisted pretty easy at high hp and G s C5 is a much better platform I just have not played with the new ones | ||
| Etennuly |
Do you guys have that 'everybody wants to run you' syndrome? Yesterday while cruising in town a couple of kids(19 or so) came up beside me(windows down day) in an older Accord, push in their clutch, rev their coffee can exhaust, while leaning out to give me the thumbs up!  They must have been behind me for a couple of redlights(I did not notice them).....and this Vette sounds really sweet going through the gears. I started laughing without responding . Id'jots revved and carried on in traffic until a sheriffs car got on their ass. Then as traffic lights would have it, I ended up beside the deputy at a light. He looks over and gives me a thumbs up! By the time I got out of town I was roaring with laughter.  When I had my earlier Vettes it was customary for other Vette drivers to do the snobbish, kind of fun, Vette wave, but this stuff is happening on a regular basis around here with everyone except a few Vette drivers.  | ||
| Sifo |
Back in the 80's when I had my built up '72 Nova SS I was at a light when a county Sheriff pulled up next to me and wanted to race. I have little doubt that I would have taken him, but even in my stupid 20s, I had a little voice telling me that this just wasn't a wise thing to do. I simply declined and waved good by. | ||
| Deanh8 |
"Dean are you on run flats or regular tires" That was going to be my next post... I thought about this some more and the tires I run on my bikes are more race orientated then tires on vette, and ive never ran super sticky tires on all 4. You would need to run something like toyo proxie street slicks to compare to the high end pirelli diablo rosso corsa also its hard to drive a car like that on the streets around here, as you would need to double lane it to take similar lines that a bike can do in one lane only. very hard to compare. | ||
| Deanh8 |
Ive got heads/cam long tubes and other small stuff, usually bikes are the only thing that can give me a good run on the freeway and even then I can pass 600's easily after 120mph Hard to see in this video but I pulled the CBR600 up on the top end..without nitrous http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwR0OCbR898 and on the other hand the only cars that can smoke my 1125r are corvettes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqugcI_tu0Y (Message edited by deanh8 on July 24, 2013) | ||
| Kenm123t |
the ZR1 I s a high speed missile I have passed many a liter bike while changing a cd and waving lol but it takes a long Road to get hypersonic lol | ||
| Etennuly |
My son and I did 90 miles on the Blue Ridge Parkway Saturday in the Vette. The speed limit is 45 on the parkway. I will say that if you were to run say ten over, and just hold your speed at that, on what happen to be damp roads, you will have a fun ride. Of course if you screw up you may never be seen again. The cliffs are unforgiving there, but the views are beautiful. The steering "feel" feed back they engineer into these cars will wear you out in a few hours. It was nice to have the occasional fog break, where vision got poor due to being in the clouds at over a mile up. I found that comparatively it is faster, easier, and more fun on the Uly. | ||
| Aesquire |
This is a very subjective subject. First, you guys are right that street car tires are not as sticky or short lived as, say, my new Dunlop Q2's. Second, it's absolutely correct that a car and a bike on the same road are on different "tracks". Third, it's true that Race bikes and Street Bikes are faster than most street cars. ( the exceptions are rare, And Pricey. but they do exist ) At the limits of traction, more rubber and more HP tends to win, but the course makes a big difference. back in the day, I was a big fan of the Sabre. As the video link posted above by Ftd shows, a serious race car ( F1, top Rally class, etc. ) eats street bikes for breakfast, I can assume that, say, a Eurospec rally car is also capable. ( technically street legal limited edition type toy vs. full race can get close on those ) I can easily see one stretch of road being more comfortable to go fast on a bike and another in a car. That's true for me, certainly, as I am much bolder on different roads in each. It's not that My Cyclone is a very fast bike. It's fairly quick, but it's forte is going fast easy. I think I can assume that most of the 100 hp class Buells are the same. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I've got no real figures but I "feel" about as quick on the M2 as I do in the Alfa. Alfa is a 156 Sportwagon, with a 5 pot 2.4 diesel, 6sp manual, just keep that turbo spinning & the tacho around the top of the green. It's a very rewarding car to drive & surprises many. That said, neither are as quick or intuitive as the SuperTT was. Oh I can hoss the M2 about alright & I love it dearly, but a day in the hills with it leaves me knackered. | ||
| Aesquire |
Etennuly shows in the original post the answer to his own question. He doesn't drive faster than he can see, ( smart, and a sure sign of a winner in avoiding a Darwin Award ) and he can see better in the Uly. Now if he had a Van that wouldn't roll over and stuck to the road half as good as the Vette, he'd be faster in the Van. ( Higher sight line ) Or, he could be faster in the Vette if he was crazier. It is nice to see some common sense. | ||
| Garyz28 |
I have a C6 Vette and a Uly.For me the Vette is much faster around corners, but then again I'm certain the Uly is capable of much more than I am. In a straight line there is no doubt the Vette is much faster. I've run the quarter in the mid twelves at 117 just by rolling it off the line and standing on it. I've also had it up to 150 and it wasn't even breaking a sweat. | ||
| Etennuly |
Aesquire, I appreciate your comments. He doesn't drive faster than he can see, ( smart, and a sure sign of a winner in avoiding a Darwin Award ) and he can see better in the Uly. That is my situation on the twisties around here, and my motto for street driving is "save it for the track". Driving stupid on the street is.....stupid. As I stated I like to pick a speed and try to keep to it through the twisties in my own lane. It does not need to be much above the speed limit to be fun. I see a lot of people in trouble with the law, or wrecking, who run 45 in the corners crossing lines, and running up to 70 or 80 on the straight stretches between the corners. We have some roads around here the speed limit is 45 mph, through the corners it may drop to 20 mph. Get your vehicle to say 50 mph and see if it will hold it through the corners. ALL of the corners. That is about the comfort limit on the street in the Vette for me. Bump that number to just above 60 on the Uly on the same roads.(no that speed number does not work on the Dragon) Or, he could be faster in the Vette if he was crazier. It is nice to see some common sense. I leave these things behind on a race track. With an audience(going fast really is about showing off), a track where everyone's intent is to go the same direction, no granny vans full of kids pulling out of blind driveways, and no legal consequences for going fast, I will test the limits of the vehicle, the track, and my wallet  . For me my common sense is knowing how deep into my wallet I want things to get. | ||
| Aesquire |
I used to live in a suburban 'hood and my going home "track" time was in a tight cornered tract leading up to it, ( aka, the long way ) where I would try and go the speed limit, 30mph, straight or twisty. Since my bike at the time was a Suzuki GT380, that meant dragging pipes & stands and using every possible bit of performance and tiny bit of skill I had. These shenanigans were always timed to avoid peak kiddie run around times, and the running critter alarms set to sensitive. ( a habit that serves me well living in serious deer country ) Now I could have accelerated past the speed limit on the short straights, but what would the point be? Yes, that would be closer to real racing, with braking and accelerating to give the fastest possible speed, but it also would have triggered far more hostility on the natives part. I was testing my skill, not the bike's capacity, which I knew was limited. Slow fun cars ( like a VW GTI or MazdaSpeed 3 ) can be driven far closer to the limits on the street than Fast fun cars. ( like a Lambo or 911 ) There's no doubt that a 911 will beat a GTI on a track, but the odds on getting serious legal attention on a back country road balance that. Today's slow fun cars, are pretty much as fast as yesteryear's fast ones, so I suppose a Dart or Fiat 500 is a better choice today for such..... I actually was followed by a Deputy through the above mentioned tract one night. He'd been tailgating me down the main road, so I elected to cut through the 'hood on the way home to see if it was ME he was interested in. After spinning through a few yards trying to keep up, he hit the lights, and I promptly pulled over. The ensuing conversation informed me I'd been going a bit fast on the main drag when he first saw me, but he didn't have an issue with my speeds in the tract..... although there was severe disbelief that I was doing so on a 380. In the end, my courtesy and bearing, ( engine off, helmet & gloves removed, polite and soft spoken ) got me a verbal warning, and laughter when he caught back up with me at the end of the tract, which I finished at 27 mph. ( still too fast for a Crown Vic ) |
