| Author | Message | ||
     86129squids |
Hey all good BW buddies- although I'm pretty sure I've got a good handle on what to look for and verify on the subject, I'm gonna pitch the quextion out there: What odd items in a new roof/deck/laundry room rebuild should I look for in a contractual agreement? I'm basically having the existing structure demolished and rebuilt from the ground up, properly, unlike the redneck "custom" crap that was here when I bought the house. My guy gave me a great bid on this project, and will be putting on a new roof to begin, hopefully this coming Monday. After he and I both go on vacation, once we're back he's planning to start the renovation by 6/5ish. Given that most any oddball subject gets good answers here, this one is the most important one I've pitched simply due to the $$$ involved. Thanks in advance for any/all good input! | ||
| Pnw_uly |
Probably many more qualified on the site to answer some of the specifics of your request, but at the very least, work out a payment plan that ensures you keep a sizable amount of the payment until the work is completed to your satisfaction. No personal experience, but have heard countless stories of contractors ceasing work and disappearing half-way through a job after getting the bulk of the money. | ||
| Sifo |
Get a completion date and clear penalties for failing to finish by that date. Some contractors have a habit of starting many jobs and finishing them when time permits. Once they have started work, it's you that will be breaking the contract unless you have an out. My father in-law hired someone to put up new gutters many years ago. They tore down the old gutters and left them in the back yard. Many months later he finally hired another contractor to finish the job. He was taken to court by the first contractor and lost the full contract price for breaking the contract. | ||
| Kenm123t |
We have ways of dealing with dead beat customers that try to play beat and rip off the contractor game. #1 Credit and back ground check #2 Hubby and Wifey BOTH SIGN PERSONALY #3 Change order rules are spelled out in base contract #4 PAYMENT SCHEDULE BREAK IT AND YOUR IN BREACH AND WE TAKE PROPERTY AND SELL TO GET WHAT WE ARE OWED YOU GET AND OR LENDER GETS WHATS LEFT #5 NO VERBAL COMMUNICATIONS both sides have 5 working days to respond. #6 Existing code violations and delays caused by owners issues do not impact my days to completion if work is delayed Customer pays my general Conditions. 7# Delays caused by owner and or owners design team or delay of owner supplied materials are covered by above listed conditions 8# Delays caused by owner longer than 10 working days and nonpayment will result in a breach and action to collect liquidated damages and diminished profits. We do not play the AIA Bravo Sierra game ask for a performance bond etc and your meeting is over. We are pros and expect you to be too. If you called me you know the drill and every one will get along just fine. BS customers and doormat contractors deserve each other. Good luck with your Job! | ||
| Pnw_uly |
^ ^ ^ Good to hear the other side of the issue; well stated. Obviously many more bad home owners than contractors (present company excluded, of course) . . . Only stands to reason if the contractors do that much research on the client, the homeowner should do just as much. Best of luck Squids. | ||
| Ourdee |
The guy that is working on my bathroom has been on it for weeks and only has the tub half finished. I'm getting tired of how long he is taking. Just one of the draw backs to DIY. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
hahaha. those DIY's are the worst!!! lol | ||
| 86129squids |
Good points all... I've got one chance to get this done right. The guy I'm using was referred to me by a contractor friend and former Marine, so I generally don't doubt that this will be a good deal for all involved. However, given that my last name isn't Trump, I'm working the due diligence and CYA type stuff anyway. Ken- interesting view on my OP. It's not so big that I'll have to finance anything, just gonna stroke a check or three, CERTAINLY not all at once, just as needed until I'm satisfied with the completed job. Business is business, for sure, but I'm not sure where the antagonistic attitude would be helpful. Thanks for the $.02 anyhoo. Keep 'em coming, folks... | ||
| Ducbsa |
Have it in writing that any changes that require a change order must be advised on the day they are discovered. Coming back to the owner at the end of the job with a request for extra money can happen. If it is unavoidable, at least you will know about it early. Make sure debris and other waste disposal is included. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Simple contract. We, the parties enjoined in this project will, to the best of our abilities, work, discover, modify, work some more, discover some more, modify some more, any and all issues that arise from this contractual obligation  Usually what happens are both parties are scared at the prospect of doing business with the other. For the contractor, you must factor in the PITA cost and hope you have estimated correctly. Any time I even heard a peep from the prospective client about "the other contractor", I made mental notes, then written ones before I drive away. That way, during the contractual phase, when I draw up the papers I will soon flesh out the real motive for the project. For the homeowner, it is unnerving that you get so many negative responses when asking about "how did your recent project of XYZ work out for you". You begin to think there cannot be that many jerks in business for themselves...can there? And there really aren't that many. Most jerks are out of business within five years. Which leads me to believe the companies that are the "survivors" have something going for them, namely communications! After living as long as I have and seeing and hearing all the stories about the ethics "of that person/people group" and then seeing and hearing those same people compromising their own integrity "just a wee bit", I get cynical! If you want honest people around you, then don't you ever "conditionally" alter your motives to get what you need. That is underhanded, dishonest, lying, and just plain out wrong. Honest communication with honest expectations and honest changes to the initial honest expectations is the best policy on any project. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Two you get it after nearly 40 years in contracting you figure out about 60% of your Bid customers are crooks. Typical encounter is your quoting a small residential project is as follows Lower level employee is doing estimate service tech gathering info for call in estimate or the regular estimator is meeting with home owner. We love you guys and we want you to do the work but your BOSS wants too much money for the job! Could we get YOU to do it on the side that way we get YOU to do it and you still get paid and make extra money we get YOU to do OUR work your Boss HAS TOO MUCH money any way. The employee does the work some times buying the equipment himself or stealing my stock and supplies. When he goes to get paid the customer tells him all of the problems with the system and they wont pay for such poor work and their son in law the attorney will put him in jail for abusing the elderly if he doesn't leave NOW! Ok the idiot just bought them a new system he has no way to collect he made an illegal contract may get reported and fined and has lost time and money he spent on the job. If he stole my materials I m going after him for money and contractors all talk he will have to move a long way off to get another job. The customer will have to import another contractor from out of the area to get work done. Employee let the need have his ego fed and greed destroy him and his career. Customer saved 20k those EVIL tradesmen tried to steal from the elderly. Lucky for them we didn't jail them! Welcome to the world of contracting This is just one episode in the life of a Contractor! Contractors can be the stupidest bunch of Smart people you will ever meet. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Big things are a SPECIFIC scope of work, and specific change order rules as noted above. Debris removal is also key. I always try to have in there an "allowable access area" clearly marked on both the contract, and the property. They don't need to be messing up extra rooms in the house, when the scope of work pertains to your deck and laundry. If they need a jon...show them the path of least resistance to get in and out during the workday. I've been a contractor - sometimes the jobs fight back, and that's why we created the Change Order. I've also been a homeowner, wondering "where the hell did they go??". Communication and being non-combative are the keys. Treat the contractor with respect and depending on the respect they return to you, a level of friendship...you'll be amazed at how quickly they complete some quality work for you  I treat my contractors as well as they treat me - a beer here or a burger there at the end of the day, and a happy chat, have earned me more than a couple "well, this trim was a little more than the estimate but we took care of it for you anyway..." Mutual respect goes a LONG way. Unfortunately in today's society we'd rather argue and call a lawyer...and I think that sucks. Oh, and don't forget to photo-document for posterity. It's always cool to have pics of "this is how we did this" | ||
| 86129squids |
Wowsers, Ken- by golly, I hope you have good days at work! Back when I was in junior high, we had a woodshop teacher, Mr. Johns, who was this little skinny guy that could take a piece of wood and build anything... I made a great glass-top coffee table in his class that I use to this day. In a perfect world, I'd have a serious man-cave fully equipped for woodwork and MC tinkering... alas, this is not a perfect world. I have great respect for those with the talent to build things like houses and such... my skill sets don't include that talent as of yet, but I'm still hoping for that day to come. In the meantime, I'll have to hire in good folks for those needs. I guess my parents raised me right- I try to do right by others, and expect the same in return. Yes, there are shysters, punks, crooks, and douche-canoes, I do pretty well avoiding them. My guy is coming out tomorrow to do the new roof, and he's assured me that we'll be going over all the details in the renovation contract later that day. I'm feeling pretty good about things. Nonetheless, I greatly appreciate everyone's input... keep the posts coming! | ||
| 86129squids |
"Treat the contractor with respect and depending on the respect they return to you, a level of friendship...you'll be amazed at how quickly they complete some quality work for you : ) I treat my contractors as well as they treat me - a beer here or a burger there at the end of the day, and a happy chat, have earned me more than a couple "well, this trim was a little more than the estimate but we took care of it for you anyway..." Well said, Joe- that's the way I go about things anyway. In my line of work, there's a French-Creole term, "lagniappe", meaning "something extra"... I always try to do something as well as possible, then go a bit further, add a little more to the whole thing. I was already thinking about a nice size cookout for the day of completion, maybe running the smoker all day just to seriously motivate peeps...  Building structures aint my forte, but food, drink and hospitality... I gotcha covered! |
