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Hootowl
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 11:24 am: | 
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The Left makes me sick with the way they're mocking her death. Disgusting.
As much as I dislike what Obama is doing, I'm pretty sure I won't have an "Obama death party" when he finally kicks the bucket. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 12:05 pm: |
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Trojan, are you saying the Guardian article linked above is factually incorrect?
Yes I'm afraid so (what, a story in the press that is incorrect, never!).
Protocol is very strict when it comes to state occasions. A State funeral (such as the queen will receive) would include invites to all (friendly) foreign heads of state and royalty.
Mrs T's funeral was not a State funeral but 'just' an offical funeral with military honours, similar to the one that Churchill and the Queen Mother had.
Ordinarily Mrs T's would not even have an invite for the queen of England, but she chose to attend this one.
Invites were given to foreign ambassadorial staff and some government ministers, but NOT to serving presidents/prime ministers/heads of state. hence no presence of European heads of state either.
Some Ex-presidents and spouses (and some who were friends of the Thatcher family) who were in power when Maggie was PM were invited (Nancy Regan and Risa Gorbachov chose not to attend for health reasons).
I don't know about Hilary Clinton, but I would have thought any invite for the Clintons would have gone to Bill not Hilary, seeing as he was the ex-Pres.
The US definition of 'marxist' differs widely from the European version (probably because the US has never had a truly left wing government so tends to judge by its own standards, which are right wing by normal European standards.
Obama would certainly not be viewed as Marxist over here and is probably on a par with our Conservative (right wing) government right now.
Proposing free health care, taxing the rich and strict gun laws would not be viewed as socialist over here at all but would be the norm under any government of any political persuasion.
If you want to see truly left wing politics look to France & Italy  |
Macbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 12:28 pm: |
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The fact that those philosophies are the norm in Europe does not mean it doesn't follow Marxist ideology. The definition of left, middle, right doesn't change just because a certain viewpoint is popular. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 12:37 pm: |
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Trojan,
I've provided two sources that claim BO was invited, the Guardian and Daily Mail. The latter provides some details on who was invited. Please provide a source for your contention that these sources are wrong. If you have no source, you are blindly spreading falsehoods. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 01:29 pm: |
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Looks like the BBC is reporting that BO and Hillary were both invited. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22103866
It's looking like a pretty solid invite to me. |
Macbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 01:34 pm: |
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But it wasn't a State Funeral and BO wouldn't be invited if it wasn't a state funeral. |
Notpurples2
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 01:37 pm: |
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Reports seem to all have either "All surviving US Presidents" or "All living former US Presidents"
Obviously Obama would be in one list but not the other.
Now, he did send representatives which could mean that he was invited.
Also, at least few heads of state did attend (a couple of presidents and some Prime Ministers).
However, no US Presidents attended.
Sources: Google "Thatcher Funeral invitees" "Thatcher funeral Heads of State" "Thatcher Funeral Obama"
You'll get a bunch of articles. I didn't find any that directly state that Obama wasn't invited. But I didn't find any that directly stated that he was definately invited other than "All surviving US Presidents"
(Message edited by notpurples2 on April 25, 2013) |
Notpurples2
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 01:42 pm: |
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It seems that the funeral was a State Funeral in all but name. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 01:58 pm: |
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Obama sent his Chief of Staff? I can't find anything on that. Source?
I did find this... http://blog.heritage.org/2013/04/18/obama-administ ration-snubs-thatcher-funeral/
quote:The official executive branch delegation to the Thatcher funeral consisted of former Secretaries of State George Schultz and James Baker, former U.S. Ambassador to Britain Louis Susman, and U.S. Charges d’Affaires to the U.K. (and acting ambassador) Barbara Stephenson.
And I've read earlier that no current members of government were sent. I've not found anything the contradicts this. |
Notpurples2
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 03:54 pm: |
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I corrected that but not fast enough I guess.
I misread one article; it was Regan's Chief of Staff, Baker, not Obama's.
My bad, I'm not a reporter just a shmoe with computer and an internet connection. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 04:36 pm: |
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"Yes I'm afraid so (what, a story in the press that is incorrect, never!)."
So it isn't true because you say it isn't true? Absent any evidence to the contrary (your statement is not evidence) why should I not believe the news article?
I'd be perfectly happy if Obama was not invited, and him NOT being invited sounds perfectly plausible. I wouldn't invite him to my funeral. But it sure appears that he was in fact invited. Can you point to anything that contradicts this? I'd love to see it. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 06:41 am: |
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did he miss an opportunity to send an Ipod loaded with the vacation munchkins favorite tunes ?.....
(no , I don't know their names, nor do I care about them any more than ANY of the Khardashians) |
Trojan
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 09:02 am: |
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It seems that the funeral was a State Funeral in all but name.
exactly, and quite confusing. However if you want evidence that NO world leaders were invited take a look at how many serving leaders attended.....none 
There has been some confusion but believe me, no serving foreign leaders were invited and none attended.
I'm sure the Guardian and Daily Mail have their sources but they also have their own agendas.
The fact is that NO world leadders were invited, because that would have been against strict protocol and would effectively have made it into a de facto State Funeral (as opposed to a funeral that looked very much like a state funeral but wasn't!).
As an aside.....The bill for the funeral came to GBP3.5 million by the way. A State funeral (with the attendant extra security costs) would probably have doubled this figure. The Thatcher family have contributed an 'undisclosed sum' towards this. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 10:37 am: |
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However if you want evidence that NO world leaders were invited take a look at how many serving leaders attended.....none
And a single example will nullify that argument. Boris Johnson, the current Mayor of London attended. Of course logic would dictate that it's a false argument right from the start. It's a circular argument... Obama didn't attend, that proves he wasn't invited.
I'm sure the Guardian and Daily Mail have their sources but they also have their own agendas.
What about all the other sources that are out there? I also posted a BBC article that said the same thing. I don't know the UK news agencies that well, but I'm pretty certain the BBC isn't in the same camp as the other two examples. The BBC BTW, as well as others are saying that the information comes from an official invitation list that has been published.
You seem to be making the claim that it must be a "State Funeral" to invite current world leaders. That's simply a false claim.
This is the sort of logic that lead me to the post about "Is this how liberals think?". Incredible leaps of logic. Circular arguments. Selective acceptance of verifiable facts. Absolute denial of verifiable facts that go against their beliefs. I see this in liberal arguments all the time. It's taken me many years to actually accept that peoples minds can function this way, but the evidence seems clear. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 11:12 am: |
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And a single example will nullify that argument. Boris Johnson, the current Mayor of London attended.
we are talking about whether serving world leaders here, not UK domestic politicians (which includes Boris Johnson, current Mayor of London and a member of the conservative party and , of which Mrs T was leader). There was also David Cameron (current UK Prime Minister) but that doesn't mean it was either a state funeral or that any overseas leaders were invited.
The Lord Mayor of London was also present in all his regalia, but that doesn't mean anything either other than that the funeral was at St Pauls Cathedral is on his 'patch' (The 'City of London' is independant from the city of London).
Unless you understand the complicated protocols involved it is very hard to argue this, but believe me it is the case that foreign leaders (including France, Germany, the US etc) were not invited and were not expected to attend.
Lastly, and this is very important. If Obama/Merkel etc had actually been invited and had declined there would have been a huge fuss in the Jingoistic British press and media, which never happened because it just wasn't the case at all.
We could go around in circles all day but trust me on this, no foreign heads of state were invited to the event. period |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 12:39 pm: |
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So you are claiming that the BBC is engaged in making up facts.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22109759 |
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