| Author | Message | ||
     Crackhead |
well 22lr would be easy to find post apocalypse, think of how many people have bought bricks and bricks of 22lr. Just about any house you go into would have 22lr hidden somewhere. I would go with a 10/22 or a Marlin Model 60 due to the availability of surplus/ salvage parts. Follow that up with a 22 revolver and a 12 slug when the extra punch is needed. As far as large game goes, after the first 2 month they would be very rare to find. Due to the long gestational period. Small animals breed fast enough to replenish the stock. And in the East range doesn't matter as much. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
"So everyone is fond of the .22lr. What about a 9mm Carbine? " With common pistol ammo I remember reading that you'll gain anywhere from 15 - 30% greater muzzle velocity out of a 16" barrel. You could probably do better by loading your own, and experimenting with different powders. | ||
| Loki |
one gun? I thinks with the extended family we will have a pretty good mix. | ||
| Aesquire |
I have a hard time envisioning how I would be limited to only one gun...... Unrealistic Yes, it's unrealistic to think that Disasters happen. When the tidal wave comes or forest fire/riot/earthquake/nuclear meltdown...... heck pick a common one.. the house is on fire. No time to dither, no time to pack. Grab the escape pack, ( reminds me... assemble an escape pack ) your child, a gun. One hand for child, one for gun. How many rifles can you carry in one hand out of a burning building with a pack on your back with food, first aid kit, space blankets and a little ammo? End of the world as we know it? Doesn't have to be that bad. Hurricane? EMP strike? Tornado? Blizzard? All the disaster has to be is a tiny bit too long or too big. After Katrina, the Police stole the guns from little old ladies. After 3 days a major city runs out of food. After one election you can't buy ammo or guns. So, yes, it's a silly game. I like the 3 gun limit as an alternate, but, as I say, one hand for baby, one for gun. One hand, one gun. ( you can save 2 children if you have a sling or a handgun with holster....  ) I'm all for having a nice collection. I'm all for being prepared, even though I'm not. A massive arsenal is just something to be stolen, and if you really need a gun, you just go to the 7-11 and pick up an idling police cruiser.  I claim to be joking about that one. A 10/22 can get you another gun much better than a rock. But a rock will work, it's just not as good odds you will survive the attempt. | ||
| Old_guy |
Loved the Benelli M1 Super 90, My entry gun when I was a Cop.  | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm assuming Buellinmke fully supports the action arm of the D party. You remember, the reason the NRA taught marksmanship classes in black churches. So the the action arm of the D party might not show up to kill you and yours ( or me and mine ) and burn those charming crosses without having second thoughts. That's why the D's leadership hates the NRA. That's why they have gun control in the US. To be fair, the last admitted Grand Kleagal in Congress passed away a little while ago. Bill Clinton praised him at the funeral. No current member of Congress will admit to membership in the Klan. They're there, they just don't admit it. (Message edited by aesquire on March 04, 2013) | ||
| Swampy |
I know I might start a fight here but my S&W MP15 fails to dependably digest CHEAP ammo. My AK is a much different story, cheap, expensive, good, bad, every time you squeeze the trigger it goes bang. So in SHTF if I can still lug the damn thing around it is coming with me. Also, any of you guys having problems finding ammo? LOL! When I go to a gun shop and somebody is filling out the paperwork I always claim the much coveted Designated Ahole position and ask "do you have ammo or mags for that? Pmags when available are $50! yikes! I bought some Bulgarian polymer mags for $29 recently, very sexy to have that white sticker that says "Bulgaria" on your Bulgarian. BTW I also spent cheap money on Pink furniture for the AR, I then presented it to my wife for Valentines day...she was not overly enthused LOL | ||
| Blake |
>>> No such thing as a DPMS AR-10. The only company that makes an AR-10 is Armalite. Please forgive my laziness. | ||
| Rick_a |
No apology needed. Any AR style rifle in .308 can be called an AR-10. It's a generic term just like AR-15. It's like saying only the Fairchild Aircraft Co. makes the Armalite Rifle Model 15. | ||
| Ulyranger |
Yes, it's unrealistic to think that Disasters happen. No, but most every disaster that I can recall can be planned for and mitigated on a personal level. Very realistic, you just don't have stand around with your thumb up some dark and unsanitary place. When the tidal wave comes or forest fire/riot/earthquake/nuclear meltdown...... heck pick a common one.. the house is on fire. No time to dither, no time to pack. Grab the escape pack, ( reminds me... assemble an escape pack ) your child, a gun. All those things can be planned for. Forest fires/riots/nuclear meltdown? I would have plenty of time to put my house in order. None of those things would affect me instantly. Earthquake? If my house was in a pile my safes (guns) would still be there. The house fire? Yup, that would suck, but doubt unless it was at a very odd time that most of my house would not be saved. FD is about a mile away, plus I have access to fire suppression equipment....on premesis. Though I fail to see a simple house fire as EOW type scenario. One hand for child, one for gun. Umm, my "child" would be carrying one or two guns if that was necessary. They would not necessarily need one of my hands. How many rifles can you carry in one hand out of a burning building with a pack on your back with food, first aid kit, space blankets and a little ammo? If the rifles were anticipated as being necessary for my family's survival post incident, how many seconds would it take to pitch them out onto the lawn prior to exiting the building? If limited to carry, how about one on sling and one in the hand along with a couple sidearms holstered up? I'd probably have to invest about one minute to make that happen. or pitch them out the window as previously mentioned. Still fail to see how the house fire fits the EOW scenario. But I'm still playing along. One more point, who's to say all of my firearms are in one locale? Eggs in one basket so to speak. End of the world as we know it? Doesn't have to be that bad. Hurricane? EMP strike? Tornado? Blizzard? All the disaster has to be is a tiny bit too long or too big. After Katrina, the Police stole the guns from little old ladies. After 3 days a major city runs out of food. Well I don't, and will never live in an urban death zone so I guess I'll leave someone else to address the municipal police state issue to someone who does. Lived through and dealt with many natural disasters in my short time on the planet. Hurricanes, microbursts/tornados, blizzards, ice storms, etc... All were incidents that could be planned for, and were by many. EMPs? I guess I'll address that one when it happens. Good thing I'm well versed in "old tech" and my guns will certainly still work, bows, axes and saws too... Living out in the country has it's benefits. After one election you can't buy ammo or guns. The current run on ammo is unlike anything I have ever seen. Between the consumer hoarding and .gov mortgaging our kid's future on billions of rounds I'll bet the only time that is equitable would be WWII. Luckily the short term lack of inventory was predictable too. I have been reloading and collecting ammo for decades......I'm good for my primary guns for my lifetime if rationed well. Push comes to shove all the components short of primers can be manufactured, then we're down to muzzleloaders..got that covered too. So, yes, it's a silly game. I like the 3 gun limit as an alternate, but, as I say, one hand for baby, one for gun. One hand, one gun. ( you can save 2 children if you have a sling or a handgun with holster.... ) Three gun would be my Minimum in SHTF, since I typically have two on me everyday, adding one more is not a stretch. I don't need to spare a hand for the "child", they will be pulling their own. I haven't had babies in a long, long time. The other family members already know their role and can fill them effectively right down to dropping game or protecting the hearth and home. If the hoards hit my local then the world will definitely be in the "S" for sure and living high on a hill I will see it coming from long, long way off. I also have a sweet backup location in the mountains where access is across seven miles of open water....well off the grid and quite cozy. I can comfortably listen to the world consume itself without much worry.....other than filling the woodshed and root cellar. I'm all for having a nice collection. I'm all for being prepared, even though I'm not. A massive arsenal is just something to be stolen, and if you really need a gun, you just go to the 7-11 and pick up an idling police cruiser. I claim to be joking about that one. Well, as previously stated, I'm not one for leaving my eggs in one basket. Don't know what the definition of an "arsenal" is (though Barbie Feinstien would definitely have me tagged) but I have enough to get by with. Preplanning is something I do for a living, so it's not a stretch to do a bit for the family. Having a few firearms and associated ammo cached where needed is eazy-peazy. Along with food and water. I guess my beef with this game is I don't believe in the scenario that can't be planned for. It's a fun game though... I guess I go with the Capt Kirk school of thought and don't believe in the "no win scenario" A 10/22 can get you another gun much better than a rock. But a rock will work, it's just not as good odds you will survive the attempt. | ||
| Aesquire |
The .223 and 5.56 cartridges have the same dimensions, externally. Military 5.56 is allowed to be loaded to a higher pressure than .223 spec, so the chamber uses a slightly longer throat. So you can fire .223 in a 5.56 chamber fearlessly, but the other way around might give too high a pressure and be an issue. The Wylde chamber supports 5.56 & .223 with a mid size throat. Intended as a match chamber to digest it all. 5.56 military spec ammo tends to have thicker case walls requiring attention to the reloading manuals, and/or staked primers needing some work to reuse. Could be wrong on any of the above, please correct my mistakes. Safety issues involved, rather be accurate than "right".  | ||
| Aesquire |
Uly, I mostly agree with you. You certainly have things better prepared than I do, and probably the vast majority. Just defending the probability of hitting the one gun scenario. I didn't start the thread and it's not my responsibility to police it. It's a bit silly to argue about.... like the reasoning behind baseball rules. It's just the game. Barbie would consider Barney Fife as having an arsenal. Back on topic, matching rifle/pistol ammo is a classic concept. 9mm 10mm .38/.357 .44-40 .44 Magnum .45 Colt .45 ACP .22 LR & Mag. Did I miss any? | ||
| Ulyranger |
Aesquire, wasn't pickin' a fight, just discussion. It's all good. I'm solidly in the Kirk Camp though. I have long wished to have a wheel & lever gun combo in a common pistol caliber, like .44 Mag. .45 Colt or .357 could be in the running as well. Always had a soft spot for levers as that's what I learned to hunt with. First center fire rifle was a Winchester 94. Also have Dad's Marlin 336 now. I always wanted a matched set of a lever carbine and revolver in the same cartridge. You can do it with different manufacturers, but it would be sweet to have a matched set. It would be a versatile set up for most anything. | ||
| Aesquire |
I missed .40 S&W. Same manufacturer for hand gun and long gun? Ruger bolt action in .357, .44 Rem Mag. ( not your top choice ) Baretta Carbines & pistols in 9mm, etc. Which maker of lever guns makes pistols today? All I can think of is Rossi. They do a 92 variant/clone and make modern revolvers. How about a Ranch Hand? http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=194 &category=17&toggle=&breadcrumbseries= ( a gun that looks fun but I would probably suck with. ) | ||
| Macbuell |
I recently picked up a Kel Tec sub 2000 that takes Glock 17 mags. Since I do not already own one, I will be picking up a Glock 17 shortly. To me that would be a good combo for any SHTF scenario. Still, I would grab the AR first. Swampy, what do you mean by CHEAP ammo? Are you talking the Russian stuff? My M&P has shot everything I have run through it but I have specifically avoided the Steel Cased russian ammo. I had been told that it isn't good to shoot that ammo through an AR anyway. | ||
| Aesquire |
The lacquer finish on the steel cased Ruskie stuff is infamous for working fine in an AK but not in a AR. I've tried the US made plastic case stuff, and it worked fine, but I didn't really heat up the rifle to test for distortion or cook offs. (Message edited by aesquire on March 05, 2013) | ||
| Rick_a |
The Russian stuff is also notorious for being underpowered for AR's as well. All my 5.56 ammo is currently M855/SS109 surplus. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Also, any of you guys having problems finding ammo? LOL! Absolutely yes. A good point Swampy and I will add, "how much could you carry if leaving the homestead if you choose to do that?" If your going to have to fight from home to defend it against an "army" you probably can never have enough but as I said before I would be leaving for remote areas to better get by until the situation eases somewhat, avoid the heavy confrontation, and hopeful return home when things subside. Not very probable for many city folks stuck there, I'm afraid. And if leaving carry only what is comfortable to move fast and with stealth and unlike the spray and pray shooters, careful choose your shots as I learned as a youngster in hunting game and why I would probably choose as one of my 3 gun bug out weapons a scope sighted bolt action in .308. Another possibility I have thought about is how many others would leave the cities also and form "groups" to eventually come back and help change things for the better. My God, I hope none of this ever comes about and "WE ALL" see where we're headed, get educated before it IS too late and change things for the better for ALL concerned. But I will never die in chains! God Bless this country to do whats right. | ||
| Ninefortheroad |
The M+P Sport runs underpowered TulAmmo like a champ! Other over-gased AR's will run Russian ammo well also. Never know when the SHTF, you might need a 223./5.56 that runs cheap ammo well... (Message edited by Ninefortheroad on March 05, 2013) (Message edited by Ninefortheroad on March 05, 2013) | ||
| Gregtonn |
FYI if you're packing ammo on foot. Ammo Weights: Pistol Calibers .380 Rounds per pound: 47.06 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.13 9mm Luger Hornady 115gr JHP/XTP Rounds per pound: 38.10 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.63 .38 Special Rounds per pound: 34.78 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.88 .357Mag. Remington UMC 125gr SJHP Rounds per pound: 30.77 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.25 .357Mag. Handload 158gr JHP Rounds per pound: 28.07 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.56 40S&W Rounds per pound: 28.07 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 3.56 .44magnum 200gr Hornady XTP HP Rounds per pound: 22 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.57 .44magnum 240gr LSWC Bullet Rounds per pound: 19.7 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.07 .45ACP 230gr Winchester Ball Rounds per pound: 21.33 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.69 RifleCalibers .22 LR Remington Golden 36gr PHP Rounds per pound: 133.33 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 0.75 .223/5.56X45 (milsurp) British Radway Green SS109 63gr Rounds per pound: 37.21 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.69 30-30 Winchester (a.k.a. .30WCF) Winchester Silvertip 170gr flat nose Rounds per pound: 20.28 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.92 .243Whinchester 75gr Hornady V-max Handloads Rounds per pound: 22.22 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.5 .308 Winchester Remington UMC 150gr FMJ Rounds per pound: 19.05 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.25 .308 Winchester 168gr BTHP Match Bullet Rounds per pound: 18.67 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.35 7mm Remington Magnum Winchester 175gr Power Point Rounds per pound:14.68 Weight per 100 rounds(lbs):6.81 7.62X39 Wolf Steel Case 122gr FMJ Rounds per pound:27.59 Weight per 100 rounds(lbs):3.63 Shotgun Calibers 12GA 2 3/4" Slug Federal HI-Shok Slug Rounds per pound: 10.53 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 9.50 12GA 2 3/4" #4 Shot Remington Express 4BK Rounds per pound: 9.30 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 10.75 12GA 2 3/4" #7 1/2 Shot Federal #7 1/2 Shot Rounds per pound: 10.53 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 9.75 12GA 2 3/4"00 Buckshot Federal Express 9 Pellet Rounds per pound: 9.76 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 10.25 12GA 3" Slug Federal 3" Rifled Slug Rounds per pound: 8.89 Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 11.25 Haven't researched volume per 100 rounds but you get the drift. G | ||
| 99savage |
Assuming the "all to h'" scenario does not include room sweeping no good reason to have a handgun & a long gun using common a common cartridge. If one elected a 22lr for the long gun, then the hand gun should be of substantial power. If the long gun has substantial power then the handgun should be the 22lr. A 22lr handgun of the Ruger or Woodsman variety could already be in the "bugout bag" along with 200 rounds of ammunition. Not much weight, not much space. - Am especially fond of the Woodsman and regret not getting one before the NYS de-facto ban on them. ALL long guns should have sling swivels, tho made an exception of the Stevens 22/410 as it breaks down and fits in a backpack. - NRA style sling & skip the butt ugly, uncomfortable to carry bipod. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"If one elected a 22lr for the long gun, then the hand gun should be of substantial power." You must have missed the one part. G | ||
| Aesquire |
Not his fault, I'm the one who promoted the long gun/hand gun same cartridge concept. Thanks for the mass of ammo list. Very interesting. A thought. One gun. Today's politics. The Drones are programmed to point out the guy in the dark with a rifle/long gun. Not worried about DHS? The police in most locals, ( especially Urban ) look upset when they see a guy with a rifle walking/riding down the road. They WILL ask questions, and with scenarios like Post-Katrina more and more likely, confiscate. ( steal ) The current heavy propaganda movement including the persecution of children with a drawing of a gun, is a well thought out anti-gun strategy. Walk down the street in a lot of the country with a Remington 1100 slung, and you'll get adverse reactions ranging from 911 calls to freaked out Barney Fife's with drawn machine guns with the safety off. High probability of death. So while something along the lines of a Ruger Scout may be the best choice in a "one gun" scenario...... ( one gun may be mandated by law. It is in a LOT of Europe ) http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/mo dels.html http://jeffcoopersscoutrifles.blogspot.com/ ...... PERHAPS the ideal "one gun" is a more easily concealed hand gun. Yes, harder to shoot than a rifle, yes, less power and range, typically than a .308 Ruger Scout, and requiring, for most people, far more practice to be proficient, but might be the only gun you can walk down the road with, without being killed on sight. S&W model 19 Combat Magnum? Woody1911a1 comments.. tough decision between 1911 in 45acp or 10mm Well, for availability, .45 wins. For range, 10mm. Col. Jeff Cooper and a few others asked for the 10mm, because they wanted the power of a .45 with the range to hunt deer, bear, etc. out past 100 yards. They got that, and found out it was of limited use to most people. The 10mm is roughly equiv. to the .41 Magnum. The idea of the .41 Magnum was a police cartridge better than the .357 and they got it. The original full goose bozo loading was nigh perfect for hunting, but too stiff for police. The reduced police load was pretty darn good, but the .41 needed the Big N-Frame Smith & Wesson, and was heavy. So with a gun that was a little too big, a little too heavy, and a little too powerful... it's now a cult cartridge. A really good one, but not all that common. The same problem exists with the 10mm. The FBI went 10mm when the 9mm famously failed them in the "Miami Shooting". The 10mm was Too powerful for some wimpy FBI Agents, so the FBI asked for ( and got, they are a big and nasty customer ) a lighter load. That worked fine, so.... Since the 10mm needed a .45 sized gun, and they no longer needed the powder capacity with the FBI load, S&W simply shortened the 10mm to 9mm over all length, loaded it to FBI specs, and the 40 S&W was born, arguably one of the top 3 or 4 choices for a defensive fire arm. So, while I very much like the 10mm. ( which does what a .45 does, but stretched the range out another football field ) the .45 is just more available... IMHO. | ||
| Rick_a |
I have an N frame 45ACP revolver for +P+ loads, which can handle most any situation one would need a handgun for.  | ||
| Aesquire |
Full moon clips and the ability to digest any bullet. Good choice. Classic lines too, what year? | ||
| Swampy |
Four screw, probably older? Pretty though. I had problems with Tulammo with a new MP15, so I imagine by the time I get some oil on it and another couple hundred rounds it may do OK but I know that when I take that unfired AK out of storage it is going to work no matter what ammo I put in it. | ||
| Rick_a |
It's actually a 2009 production piece...one of the Classics series. Behold the dreaded infernal lock:  It is a very low production number piece, though they're not very valuable, they have been holding their worth. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Nobody has mentioned black powder arms.(?)  Commercial ammo becomes extinct,nearly like it is now..... 1,000 percussion caps and 4 pounds of powder would get "survival food" for quite a while.Lead is a pretty common mineral.Stash a mould and big spoon to cast bullets or balls and be good to go. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Zip I just went to buy an Old Army and found out they are no longer made ! | ||
| Ulyranger |
And that is why I do not, will buy into the "one gun" scenario. I will have whatever firearms necessary to carry on....... |
