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Just_ziptab
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 10:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What is the metal finish called on a mill table when it is hand tooled/engraved? This was used on OLD milling machine tables and I don't think it is used anymore for a surface finish. I thought it was called "spurling" but can't find that to be the word I am looking for.
Oh yeah,I just got a new bench top mill. I have access to several knee mills but that is just not the same as having a little one in the basement for tinkering.
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Jramsey
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Its called scraping.Sometimes referred to as flaking/frosting.
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The semi-matte finish that is linear/crosshatched is, as Jramsey says, scraping,( scrape ). Done by hand, it's the old school way to finish machine ways to a super smooth and flat finish. Dye is put on a granite surface block and the item to be flattened is pressed against it. The ( usually an apprentice ) tool maker then scrapes the inked parts with a tool ( several different types are used, push and pull ) to remove the dye and a tiny amount of metal. The process is repeated until flatness is achieved.

It's laborious, slow, and one of the first things you learn after becoming an apprentice in the old school shops. ( usually after, mind you, you are an accomplished machine operator and are moving up to the next level of skill and precision. )

Also meant to hold oil in it's texture to reduce drag and prevent chattering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_scraper

The circular swirl finish is called "machine turned" or "engine turned" and is made with a wooden dowel & polishing compound. With a drill press. More decorative than practical, it's an almost Art Deco finish. Hides hammer marks nicely after you've planished sheet metal. ( planishing is hitting metal with a hammer, a lot, close together, to even out larger unsightly hammer marks. Also serves to work harden the surface evenly )

Best example is the aluminum cowling on the Spirit Of St. Louis, Lindbergh's famous plane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_turnings
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Just_ziptab
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks guys!That is it!~
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Oldog
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 02:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Let us know how that works looks like a nice little bit of kit .....
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Just_ziptab
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here is an engine turned piece I did a few years ago to experiment with before I did the aluminum dash and side panels on a hotrod tractor. Just used a 2" wire brush in a drill press and no fixture to make a perfect pattern.Turned out good enuf.

The bench mill is from Little Machine shop.....reviewed as one of the best bench top mini mills. Solid column and quiet vari-speed belt drive.The rest of the mini mills are pale in comparison and 1/2 the price(go figure) It should be fine for my tinkering. I'm recovering from a hernia surgery,so have a few days to mount DRO's and go thru it all.It was a little loose in the gibs and I will need to tram it with shims on the column base if it is "off" more than specs.I think it will be OK.....and fun!Bought the package with plenty of tooling for starting out.


(Message edited by just_ziptab on February 25, 2013)
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's pretty slick right there.
I am just learning on a knee mill now.
I would love a "home version" but I fear the stuff at harbor freight isn't worth paying money for.
Where did you get that one and how many dollars did they take from you?
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Just_ziptab
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There was nothing out there for used mini mills.....so I went with new. $820.00 with out the tooling package. I got this one with the package,click: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view .php?ProductID=4722&category=1387807683
Click the tabs at mid page for features/specs.
Most all mini mills in this price range(Harbor Freight/Grizzly and the like) are made by the same China company. This one is made to Little Machine Shop specifications..much better machine... by far for the extra bucks. It's ain't a Bridgeport.....but it will work for me.
iguage DRO's at Amazon.com for really decent price. Battery powered and auto shut off.....but it remembers where it was at when you turn it back on. I can change batteries once in a while and save a lot of bucks.
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Ducxl
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A good friend of mine is,a scraper.learned from his dad.runs a side biz restoring Acme screw machines.

The tool looks like one of those wood lathe (wooden handled) tools.they call it an art.
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99savage
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As Aesquire said it is called a "scraped" surface, it is 2/3 science x 1/3 art. - All the people I knew that could do it have long left this vale of tears.

Have never seen it on granite, always on cast iron. - It does hold oil but more importantly it gives the small chips, that would otherwise be raised lumps on a flat surface, a place to go.

For "jeweling" small items, such as firearms components I have had fair results using the round, ink erasers for in electric erasers chucked in a drill press. - Smooth finish & a place of a little oil to hide.
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Tootal
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 07:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I too worked with a guy that would scrape the ways for Knight Milling Machine Co. He had been in the Hitler youth and would explain to us how it was just like the boy scouts!! Sure it was!! He was an amazing machinist, I learned many things by keeping my mouth shut and my ears open!

Another way to engine turn is to use a wooden dowel and cut a slot in the end and then fold up a piece of emory cloth and shove it in the slot and then open it's "wings". Works great!
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Bluzm2
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Engine turning is also called Damascening.
You can buy the rubber grit "erasers" from Eastwood automotive.
I did it on some S1 parts a while back..
Much easier to do if you have a X-Y cross vice.
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Swamp2
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When I decided I wanted a mill, I went big...



1961 J-head. Think it cost a grand, but admittedly that was probably 15 years ago. Has a separate 3 phase motor/gearbox for the table feed. It's a neat old thing.

It'll be in my basement until I die and probably long after that!

Also have a nice 1945 South Bend Model A lathe you can see in the background...
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Loose1
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 09:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Swamp2, I see your J-head and raise you a retrofitted Boss 5.
Matt
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Jramsey
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



Harley will get much enjoyment and use from his latest acquisition.



(Message edited by Jramsey on February 26, 2013)
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Toona
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 10:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)





I'll see your Boss5 and raise you.... : )

It's been fun learning how to run this thing. When the riggers brought it in, the foreman asked me if I knew how to run it. I said, YES! The green button turns it on and the red one turns it off .

I now do my drawing in Solidworks and and my CAM software is OneCNC, referred to me by a fellow BadWeb'r Steve_mackay

(Message edited by Toona on February 25, 2013)
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 10:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Very jealous. Very.

Oops. You don't scrape granite, you use it as the flat, dye holding surface to mark the work piece. In production shops, you use a ground, Uberflat slab of hardened steel. It's the ink filled flat "type" in printing the high spots on the work piece. A granite surface block does in a pinch.

It's time consuming, physical, and fun in an OCD sorta way.

Ye old German Apprentice system hands a kid a big chunk of steel and tells him to make a crankshaft. By hand. ( I only had to make a V-block ) This extended into WW2 and died out in the late 20th century.

The old school guys really could do anything with nothing....

First thing I teach a student in my Brother in law's armor workshops in how to use a file. By that time we've already had them banging out elbow cops with hammer and stump. ( as a hobby, I go real old school )
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Just_ziptab
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 11:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Love the big mills. We have 3 at work and they will do anything the little bench mill will do....but the bench mill won't hold a candle to the big ones on large parts.In foot print and mobility,the little mill wins. I also have a little Atlas 10" bench top lathe that was fully complete with neart every tooling piece you could ever want. $350.00 at a household auction across the street 20 years ago. Neart any part you need is on eBay. Amazing how often I use it for something....
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 08:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Cool stuff, I love looking at all the different machines and hearing about the people that know how to actually use them.
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Prior
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is a Bridgport mill, Warner Swasey Turret Lathe and a Jet lathe listed in our local Craigslist for $3500... Man I wish I had the space. Someday soon I hope to build a proper shop.

I love seeing all of the old machine tools and meeting the guys who really know how to run them. It's becoming a lost art.
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Fast1075
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That South Bend is exactly like the one I have. Handy little guy. Mine has made many axle spacers and foot pegs.
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Oldog
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sigh,
J-Ramsey you need to pipe up for all round shop had a great visit I need to post it up soon
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Tootal
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My German friend told me he had to take a 5"cube of steel and file it down to a 3" cube and all sides had to be square! I saw a tv show where they were interviewing some machinist instructor and he was having the guys do the same project! When asked why they just don't use a milling machine the instructor just said, in his German accent,"Ve ar not teaching zem how to file, ve ar teaching zem discipline!"
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Just_ziptab
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tootal....I had a shooting friend that had to do that to pass the course.He went on to building a bolt action pistol in which the action was machined into the barrel blank as one solid hunk(no threaded in barrel).Beautiful workmanship!
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Gunut75
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a Mazak VTC-16 mill. 44x16x20. 24 tool changer. 15 hp. and a Quick Turn 8 lathe. I also have a full size manual knee mill, and am working on an old South Bend lathe with full tooling (5c collet, faceplate with dogs, 3&4 jaw chucks, and all turning tools) for under $600. I was educated in old school machining, then pursued education within the modern technologies. I still like making things the old way. After the lathe, I'll be looking for a benchtop unit like you got there.
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