| Author | Message | ||
     Union_man |
Kenm123t; You are so full of hate. On Christmas too, it's a pity. Even if there is a chance that you and I may agree on something, you take every opportunity to attack. Pure Venom. No common ground will ever be found with you or your type. Your positions are stale and no longer resonate with the Majority. 53% of Americans say that the Republican Party is "TOO EXTREME". I am sure that remedies can be found, but only if we are willing to put all options on the table. We all should be willing to do the right thing. Even if it means we may have to give up some ground to each others positions. | ||
| J2blue |
ba ha ha... knee slapper. | ||
| Malott442 |
Union man, will you please have a merry christmas? And for Christmas my wish is that you quit recycling your 53% quote. It's hardly a landslide, don't you think? Ken's statement was not full of hate. It was an opinion with truth behind it. What most conservatives are afraid of right now is compromise. Because that compromise is going to be 2nd amendment rights. Any compromise of our rights is viewed as the downfall of our country's foundation. Merry Christmas, fight tomorrow. Go kiss a Buell and pretend the world is safe for one night. | ||
| Aesquire |
That's 53% believed in what they were told. Some of that was lies. We just had a shooting in Webster NY. A fellow who had done time for murdering his grandmother, then paroled, had decided he wanted to kill & die. Started a fire, and shot the first 4 firemen and 1 cop who arrived to help. 2 firefighters dead, 2 & 1 policeman seriously wounded. The police closed off the area, searched for the killer, and found his body, dead. Suicide. 7 houses burned down as they searched. Found his mothers body the next day as the ruins cooled. Also the suicide rant/note. He wanted to kill. Maybe it's the season, maybe it's the news coverage. The unrelenting repeated constant over amped talking about it, showing pictures of the killer 24 hours a day. I dunno. Kenm123t, Gee, it looked to me like Unionman actually agreed with you. Perhaps a little more thought and an agreement might make him FEEL better. Unionman, Gee, I was agreeing with you, until you went off. A few points. "common ground". This vid is a bit long, but the vital stuff is in the first 10 minutes. Penn & Glenn are both smart dudes, although you may disagree with them both. ( one's an Atheist, and the others Mormon Christian. ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3LnVa7zXgc 9:15 "if you could convince the gun people that the dope people were ok, and the dope people that the gun people are ok, everyone in the country is libertarian" 15:00 "we have to get over the idea that you have a right not to be offended" To paraphrase a later point... ( about 40:30 ) If we push our country back towards the liberty end, by the time we get to disagree, we'll both be happy. Mass violence. ( terrorism, the massace/suicides for various political and personal reasons. Nothing we do, from crappy armed guards like the TSA, to fortress schools with antiaircraft and razor wire, is going to stop all violence. Total police state control of movement isn't going to stop it all. In the context of imperfection, let us examine these facts on terrorism inside the US. ( these murder-suicides, are psychologically related, though ideologically disconnected ) Airports, ( despite my dislike of the way the TSA works ) have enough security to mostly deflect terrorists from using them. It's imperfect, but other terrorist attacks have been on softer targets. Cars plowing into crowds, shootings, etc. Impulse badness and easy pickings. I personally dread the day a cell of terrorists take on a mall. ( weird fact. Because of training and culture, Americans would actually be better at a gun toting mall massacre than Middle Easter culture guys would. A matter of training and attitude. From a harsh perspective, we aim. Seriously, Anyone play Halo? There's a reason that in the mid east, our people get killed with bombs and mortars, and we rack them up with direct rifle kills. Hence, the high body counts with the recent suicide by massacre. Weird, and a little sad. ) Schools? A small change away from sheep denial gets you some armed guards and most important, an attitude change that will DEFLECT these crazy folk away from our schools. THAT might be a rational choice. Your opinion? Gun bans, Proven time and again, don't work at all. The highest level of violence, with guns, is where the guns are most restricted. That's from a study that intended to prove how bad legal gun ownership was. Corrected and balanced for poverty and population density. Still the NRA VP was a bit full of Shht. "all options" There's your slippery slope. Willing to live in a prison? Cameras everywhere, strict movement controls, house searched at random? Or. If that's too extreme, how about your car being searched at check points as a regular thing? "Just the price of compromise". We may not be pulling in opposite directions here on that slope. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Union look up what your masters have instore for your country . Have you looked up how many people were killed last century by thier own governments? Bill Ayers obamas mentor and convicted terrorist stated when he wanted to take over in the 70s he expected to kill 25million or about 10% the population that would reject reducation by his group. And you think conservative values are extreme! lol Bill Ayers was bragging last week how the left planned on useing their " absolute access to the classroom to push thier agenda A good start would JPFO site. Extreme Hmm values and rights are at the whim of a Mob? That's why we are a Constitutional Republic instead of a democracy. Tyrants in infancy like your lord obama are contained by it. As I stated before you need to use your own words instead of the demoncrats talking points in attempts to insult me. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
When the 53% try to enforce the illegal and unconstitutional laws they decree on the other 47% and the 47% fight back, we'll see how much of a "landslide" that difference really is. This is all going to come to blows. It's simply a matter of time. When it does, it will be loud, scary and bloody. Either the 53% will be placed up against the wall for being traitors or the 47% will. My money is on the 53% being given blindfolds and cigarettes. | ||
| Boltrider |
Along wIth SRO's, CA has entire police departments dedicated to schools for some of the rougher areas. Twin Rivers PD and Stockton Unified PD are two that come to mind. It wouldn't surprise me if LA Unified had its own department as well. | ||
| Oldog |
Well Said Fatty! 1776 - 20?? "The tree of liberty ............." | ||
| Kenm123t |
In Fla the term is resource officer or dept. some elementary schools share officers. middle and high schools have 2 to as many as 8 depending on the school size. Broward county has 1 high school with 17000 students and several others nearly as large Some one has to protect the high school boys from the liberal cougars! | ||
| Aesquire |
So, are we all in agreement that a federal program to put cops in school is a bad idea? I think the consensus is that local decision making on the subject of cops, armed guards, and the training and deployment thereof is the way to go? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The Federal program to put security officers in airports has worked out swimmingly. Why would Federal officers in schools be a problem? | ||
| Brumbear |
http://hopatcong-sparta.patch.com/articles/average -hopatcong-teacher-makes-73k http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/New-Jers ey-Police-Salaries-Highest-in-Nation-103276154.htm l Now look at E-4 pay http://www.goarmy.com/benefits/money/basic-pay-act ive-duty-soldiers.html This is a no brainer | ||
| Kenm123t |
Lets take care of two issues gov spending and school safety. Close all police stations relocate to school grounds. schools have more real estate. We end up with local officers that Know the Vermin AAA kids lol small town policeing again. Troubled kids wont slip through un noticed. In larger urban areas cops and potential gang bangers will be easier to check on | ||
| Thumper74 |
Aesquire, aren't there already checkpoints within the United States southern states that search cars? | ||
| Aesquire |
Brumbear, true, using Army Soldiers is cheaper than teachers or cops. Other than the MP's or Civil Affairs, however, the training isn't quite right for guarding a school against 1 guy, ( usually a student ) that's shooting for TV Glory & Suicide. Mining the playground, setting up ambushes and foxholes for an infantry assault, sure. I'm not sure what the best, or even a workable way is to stop that 1 guy. High walls, razor wire, killer robots on the school perimeter? Pass everyone through an airport style security setup? 1 person at a time through the metal detectors while being tracked by IR seeking taser 'bots? Our military really isn't suited for peace keeping operations. Something politicians don't seem to remember. If you want to break things and kill people, now for that they are the best. Thumper74, yea, but not that many, also agricultural checkpoints and the growing number of TSA roadblocks. The TSA is the model to look at here. In the effort to control all transport and grow the bureaucracy ( budgets! More Management positions! Power! ) the TSA is expanding to control every aspect of life they can justify. Check points on the highway. Your papers please. Cars, trucks, trains, All a chance for more power, more budget, more chances to get a raise, a title and bigger office, with more people under you. The paranoid would say they are trying to condition the sheep to obey the stupidest orders from incompetent authority. That's true. Those paranoids are just making enemies by saying that. So following the TSA model for our schools has obvious implications. Random strip searches. Theft. Sexual assault. If the job is to protect children, why limit to the school grounds? All those streets children walk down on the way to school. All those homes where the children live. Heck those very homes are where most child abuse takes place. What an excuse for cameras and microphones in every room! How big a staff we'd need to monitor it all! What wonders for the budget of the CSA ( child safety authority ) New headquarters! Parking lots! Total Control! Bwaaa HAaa Haaa!!!! Is it possible that even giving up every freedom we have to move around, have private moments, read subversive literature, ( Catcher in the Rye, The Anarchists Cook Book, Dreams From My Father ) could not stop an occasional crazy person? How many rights should I give up to preserve the illusion of safety? | ||
| Aesquire |
A few random observations. A tiny fraction of people want to slaughter people on airplanes or use them as missiles. Yet we have the TSA, and the demonstration of power, that has not actually stopped anyone. ( passengers are responsible for all thwarted terrorist actions on planes since 9/11/01 ) It has discouraged people from using airlines, and probably some of them were terrorists, but that's negative evidence. It IS true that we've had no more 757's into buildings. ( a few Cessnas ) Yet we are not allowed to do stuff like the AZ anti illegal immigrant law, since it violates people's rights. You need ID for flying, for driving, to get your Obama phone. But not to vote. Columbine happened during the "Assault Weapon" ban. Didn't do a thing. ( oddly enough, the killers at Columbine broke the law! ) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Your wealth, success, independence will make you enemies of the state. History rhymes enough that you should be paying more attention to what the Dictator in Charge is up to. | ||
| Sifo |
Back from my Christmas travels. I see the armed guard bit at Columbine I posted the morning I was leaving was dismissed as being inaccurate. A quick search though shows that there was indeed a uniformed armed guard on duty at Columbine. He even shot at the shooters from about 60 yards. Assuming he was armed with a pistol, that's going to be a pretty low percentage shot. Kind of backs up what I've said earlier about a single armed guard not being effective at guarding a large building designed with many entrances and architectural feature that provide cover. How do people expect to have an intelligent conversation when you choose to ignore facts? Of course our elected leaders will do the same thing, but once elected, we have no control over that. Again, I'm not against guards. They may make sense in some situations, not others. They are expensive. They won't deter a nut-job who is bent on attacking a specific target. Connecticut continued with the ban on assault rifles. That didn't work either. Further erosion of our Constitutional rights, will not make us a better nation. Feel free to continue with the uninformed ideological arguments. | ||
| Brumbear |
Aesquire Nation guard troops when I was in were actually trained different in crowd control and police actions. I was RA so I don't know exactly what they were trained in but the NG guys definitely had different training than RA or reservists. MP's should all be trained in regular police duty. 2 National Guard MP's for each school one inside one outside or 2 patrolling the perimeter constantly with open coms to offices. But a hired firm could also achieve this my money would have to be spent on National Guardsmen. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Xe would be the prefered contractor they have never lost a principal! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/publicationsregulat ions/p/d302512.htm http://info.publicintelligence.net/USArmy-Internme ntResettlement.pdf http://www.stewart.army.mil/tenants/902MI/docs/MAR NE-CI-AWARENESS.pdf those are open source, the dark stuff is infinitely more ••••••. enjoy | ||
| Ulyranger |
Everyone using urban examples where SROs are already deployed, so it could work anywhere just are not seeing the whole picture. Many areas in this country where school districts exist do not currently have dedicated, contracted police services. This would have to be created, meaning it would most likely be Federal......probably using TSA as model.....no thanks. The solutions are not going to be easy and nothing will completely eliminate the threat of the single nut job bent on destruction in a free society. We can do a better job on identifying potential and lessen the impacts. Bottom line is people in general need to be more responsible in this country. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Does the NRA think we should have a policeman on every fire truck and in every movie theater? How about every street corner? Is more guns really the solution? | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/336097/our- sociopaths-ourselves-christina-hoff-sommers I Condemn Wayne at the NRA for defending his position with stupidity and attacking other rights arguably just as dear. Panic reaction. ( he might have a point, but it's still bogus ) The "NRA" wants criminals who use guns prosecuted and punished. With jail time. In an effort to reduce stolen gun violence. The lefties resist this, since they don't like mandatory sentencing. ( unless it's their hot button issue, then they are fine with it... zero tolerance? anyone? ) Is more guns really the solution? Wrong question. Rather ask this. Are more guns in legal citizens control the solution to violent crime? Yes. Proven. In every state where concealed carry has been enacted since 2001 violent crime has dropped. Also ask this. Do more restrictive gun control laws lower violent crime? No. Proven. Chicago has some of the strictest laws in the nation and 4000 people are dead from violent crime in 2012. That's the Iraq AND Afghan Front US casualties Combined, for nearly a decade. One year, Chicago = the entire Bush War on Terror. 1 year = 9+ Answer your questions? No gun control law will stop the Amok from killing. I have detailed how to avoid all those pesky rules elsewhere. Won't repeat unless asked. I myself, am against mandatory sentencing, mandatory police on Fire trucks & ambulances, mandatory police on every street corner, mandatory surveillance of all subjects, and mandatory abortion for population control. In fact I'm pretty much against mandatory anything, how about you? | ||
| Aesquire |
from link above. "Why killers like the Columbine and Newtown shooters do what they do is as mysterious as the problem of evil in general. There will be no easy solution. But here are the hard questions no one has answered: Why now? Why us? Americans have always had easy access to guns. But, until fairly recently, no one thought to go to a school to slaughter first-graders. There have always been sociopaths among us. But we seem to have created a society where they feel empowered to act." Any answers for this? | ||
| Kenm123t |
Cycledon In fla there is a police car sent to evrry fire house when they leave to guard an empty building and a multi unit detail of leos for crowd control and any thing else. My nephew is a leo and para medic and depending on the call he could be doing both jobs. | ||
| Aesquire |
It's not at all unusual for a small town to have only 3 police, sometimes including the Chief. Sometimes only one. Most local towns fit that mold, and many have no police dept at all, depending on the County Sheriff to cover them. High density areas like a central city and many of the suburbs surrounding it have huge police forces. In other words Wilmington NC may have a swat team, a fine pathology CSI lab, and enough police to cover every school. Cat's Square has none of that, the whole town getting it's mail from a row of boxes on the main road. Are the children of Cat's Square unworthy of our loving protection? ( that's a pure emotion based BS argument. ) We have to be aware that regional and simply local economic differences make a one size fit's all solution impossible, and frankly stupid to ask for. NO socially acceptable solution including building our schools into prisons with mine fields, is going to prevent crazy from happening. I don't know what social aspect has made suicide a participant sport, but My first thought isn't video games, ( playing Cowboys and indians for a century didn't seem to encourage this, and some of us had toy guns! ) Nor is it gun control. 200 years of freedom didn't do this. There may be something in our mental health system. I have no solution to that either. How many people who kill/suicide left an obvious trail in retrospect? Can we learn something? Know what ever you do won't STOP this kind of thing. Schools. A real problem there, and the best I can suggest is a return to older moral codes. Zero Tolerance programs for weapons, bullying, free speech, and everything els some idiot busybody comes up with did exactly NOTHING to stop this in several schools, and have persecuted lots of innocent children out of seriously twisted Soviet Style PC. Media Coverage. Glory! 15 days of fame! They talk about you! Your revenge on those who offended you is at last public! They talk about you! Face it, ever have a dog that did bad things to get attention? A child? Most of our Politicians? Again, I have no solution, except to suggest that we ask the 24/7 news guys to try and manipulate the reward/response issues of crazy people in our news coverage. Ask. They're pretty good at coordinated propaganda for causes they like, so let's see what they come up with. | ||
| Aesquire |
Correction. I see that Chicago had 500 homicides, not the 4000 figure I used. I assume I was in error, and don't recall the source. oops. Sorry. This invalidates my emotional point. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ chi-chicago-2012-homicide-toll-20121228,0,5456581. story But, like the English policy of not reporting crime if it makes politicians look bad, news from Chicago should be taken with a grain of salt. Maybe a lick. ( hard to believe a 3500 corpse difference, so I'm still wrong on that number. ) | ||
| Malott442 |
I love how Chicago PD took its time to re-count and name the 500th victim. What buffoons. I should definitely move there. Disarmed, in a dangerous place full of armed criminals, sounds really grand. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Hmmm... a little over one per day. Worse than 20 in one day? I say yes. Systemic or acute? Both are very bad. |
