| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
1950's? Try 1890's. The rest of your post is quite accurate. The trouble with Paint shaker's rational approach, is it doesn't look like you are "doing something". The panic reactions and stupid statements are fairly bipartisan now. ( I have an opinion over who is dumber, but there's plenty to go around ) | ||
| Aesquire |
"These holiday tragedies are mostly perpetrated by angry, disenfranchised white men." ooooh Burn! ( also not true, but hey, good snark. ) Good point though. Lots of pressure. Have fun. Merry Christmas. happy New Year. Pleasant solstice, joyous Diwale, good Mayan New age, pleasurable Saturnalia.... | ||
| Kenm123t |
Wow we upset Union man so he is going to off himself. Projection is a high art to demoncrats! Union your implied insults are lacking practice and get back to us. Quite amusing actually lol  | ||
| Strokizator |
Hey Union, if putting armed guards in schools is such a bad idea when are you going to come out against air marshals? | ||
| Preybird1 |
Every high-school i ever visited had a full time officer on the premise. Two high schools i attended had more than 1 officer on duty at any given time. | ||
| Union_man |
In my town we have one cop on duty 24hrs a day. There are 3 schools in this town. An Elementary, Middle, and High School. A 300% increase in the Police force in my town is unsustainable. If the "Government" even suggested tripling it's size and budget you, and Grover Norquist, would be FREAKING OUT! I am not anti gun. I have a permit to carry and have been doing so for the past 8 years. I hunt and own 7 guns. There has to be a solution, I just don't think this is it. | ||
| Blake |
I'm learning some good perspective here. Thanks Patrick (Aesquire) and officer Canfield (Paintshaker). Sorry Mr. Malott, I just don't buy the sob story about teachers typically being plagued by stressful situations and poor pay. In some cases, that may be true. If such environment exists, then the school district or school is poorly run. Period. More pay is no solution then, is it? A student disrupts class or disrespects a teacher? Straight to the principal's office. | ||
| Brumbear |
No, cops costs are way to high and frankly most are not up to the job. What would work is to activate a battalion or 2 of MP's from each states Nation Guard and assign 2 to every school.These guys are much more physically fit and cost way less and there mere presence would give the children a much better sense of security imo and my opinion counts I have a 6th grader and I asked him which would make him feel safer. | ||
| Sifo |
Just had the news on and they were talking about this topic. They mentioned that Columbine had armed guards there. I haven't verified that to be accurate. I certainly didn't know it. It should be factored into the lessons learned. Short on time... Merry Christmas folks! | ||
| Kenm123t |
Union a good start would be disavowing the immorality of the left. Franklin stated only a moral and ethical people could enjoy the freedoms of the Republic Local Law inforcement is a local issue not big government it should not be run out of DC. Every kid intown must know your leo that heads off a lot of issues My niece is a teacher her stress comes from the BS political nonsense she has to deal with. (Message edited by kenm123t on December 24, 2012) | ||
| 99savage |
Seriously "Union_man", try to figure out what is good where you live and make suggestions on how we can reproduce it. I'm way down on mechanical & mechanistic fixes. None of the proposed bans would have stopped any of the recent incidents. - Well maybe, if we could have vacuumed up all the ultra hi capacity magazines prior to the Giffords incident, maybe that one would not have been quite so bad, maybe. No, for bunches of reasons don't want teachers packing. - Remember try to cop a feel from my my kindergarten teacher. If I had grabbed a shoulder holster probably would have turned out gay. No, for the reasons you gave and many others do no want to increase the size of the police. Want us to start treating each other with kindness and respect again. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I have a good friend that teaches. To some degree, teachers are the victims of other teachers. In order to get all the credits and certs he needs to be able to meet all the benchmarks necessary to get to the top pay band (all very structured and rigid) he has to keep taking classes and doing other things outside of school. The school doesn't care if the classes are particularly hard or particularly relevant, he just has to pay the money to the local college and sit politely and get the checkmark in the box at the end. So it ends up being fairly demanding in terms of time and money, but for stupid reasons, many of which are self imposed by the industry. The days of cushy teaching jobs really are gone though, at least for the full time class leading teacher. Some of the part time gigs are pretty easy though, and I bet some of the administration jobs can be pretty cushy as well. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Nobody anywhere can ever be 100% safe so long as we have free will. You spend as much money as you want to spend to reduce the risk to a level you can tolerate. Armed guards in schools would absolutely help, even if they were a first target. They would certainly be harder to shoot than a 7 year old crying in a corner. Removing the gun free status from schools would also undeniably help as well, probably even better than armed guards, as you never know who is carrying. Put passions aside and look at it rationally. You really have three questions to answer: 1) Will a criminal who has decided to go on a killing spree ever change his mind because his targets are in a place where it is not legal to bring a gun? No. (Duh!) 2) What is the incidence of a trained and legal CCW individual loosing control of their weapon and causing an accidental death? How does that compare to the incidence of violence in schools that a CCW could stop? Remember, you don't have to stop an act in progress to be effective, you can also be effective just by being a deterrent. Compare those numbers. 3) Can a CCW holder who is not a trained cop stop an actual crime? This one is easy, the answer is yes, and many kids are alive today *only* because of a few of them have already done so. 4) Finally... who gave anyone the moral right to strip a law abiding person of a constitutional right to defend themselves by declaring their workplace a "gun free zone" and then failing to protect them? If school administrators and politicians are so sure their teachers cant be trusted and must be disarmed, they then have a moral duty to offer very strong protection in place of that stripped right. So the need for armed guards is because of the problem the "gun free" declaration created. It's an obvious problem resulting from a flawed idea. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
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| Oldog |
Thanks for a more rational comment on the Reason to have a guard. I am NOT in favor of any federal control of this, your community may need to ask the state for more$$ to provide for an officer( guard ) Communities can take various approaches to solve this problem, Although for a quick buffer a couple of soldiers-or police officers can harden a school up to deter the shooter. Until a permanent solution can be had. On the subject of Columbine I don't recall that armed guards were present. For those that oppose an "RSO", police officer or a guard What do you propose, If you require teachers / admin to CCW, then consider that the Weapons, practice ammo, and training should all be furnished, IMO mitigating the $$ argument against the LEO - Guard BTW Guard <> Mall cop, GUARD = Swat officer / Soldier Merry Christmas =) | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Long and very profound speech to Congress by Darrell Scott who lost a beautiful child at Columbine. Congress did not like hearing it. Maybe this would help us all at this very special time of the year, and yes I am a strong 2nd Amendment believer and a life member of the NRA: COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER !! Guess our national leaders didn't expect this. On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness.. The following is a portion of the transcript: "Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers. "The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart. "In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent. I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. Your laws ignore our deepest needs, Your words are empty air. You've stripped away our heritage, You've outlawed simple prayer. Now gunshots fill our classrooms, And precious children die. You seek for answers everywhere, And ask the question "Why?" You regulate restrictive laws, Through legislative creed. And yet you fail to understand, That God is what we need! "Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!" - Darrell Scott Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this man's speech. Please send this out to everyone you can. God Bless | ||
| Brumbear |
National guard is controlled by the state so is the local police dept. A policeman in NJ makes $100K a year on average and knowing the locals leads to as many problems as answers. A private security firm is an option I hate to say it but monetary issues are a point in these disussions. My town alone has 2200 students with a yearly budget of $36,000,000.00 Now I would spend whatever to keep my kids safe but we have to have it to spend and in NJ many many many do not. we need to lesson the burden on the public no we have to.The lower cost of NG troops which are well trained and armed has to be a more viable option here. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Dave (Brumbear), I like that idea as a very good option for keeping our kids safe and here is another to consider. How about the backing out of military personnel in all those countries we are giving military and financial aid to WHO JUST PLAIN HATE us and bring them back to help defend against crime in this country. We desperately need more port security, school security and many others places where we could do exactly what our military should be doing, defending our country, here first before venturing into places we are really not wanted. I do believe we should never had gone into Vietnam let alone our latest ventures. I will admit we need to do some things in the world to help defend OUR liberties but do we NEED to defend those who really do not want us? Look up "The Monroe Doctrine" about one sovereign country delving into another sovereign countries affairs. And I am really worried about the United Nations effort to enlist us to join "the new world order". Lets hear some other opinions on my thoughts. Bob | ||
| Ourdee |
No, I do not. | ||
| Britchri10 |
From an Englishman's perspective: The UN is useful when you (a Nation state) want something "universal" to underwrite your actions. (WRT Prop' 51 & the Falklands/Malvina's) The rest of the time it's basically a waste of time trying to get anything done for several reasons. The first is that "little" nations think that they can dictate to "large nations" by way of consensus amongst "little" nations. The second is that it gives "minor national leaders" the opportunity to proselytize about stuff that doesn't concern/interest the rest of the world. The third is that it is basically unrepresentative in its actions/resolutions due to the undue influence exacted by "little" international nobodies/nations. The UN is toothless because the veto given to security council members ensures that it will never achieve anything that those nations do not want to happen. In short,"big nations" can just ignore the UN & anything they say unless it is expedient for them to agree with what the UN proposes. Chris C | ||
| Malott442 |
I'll admit, my vision is biased based on my sister's and my classmate's situations. South Florida school districts, namely Polk, Lakeland, and Citrus county are being run in the ground by superintendents that get paid 400k a year. There is a very complicated problem that needs solving. One that needs a NEW committee to resolve. The one in place is clearly corrupt. | ||
| Bads1 |
I just don't buy the sob story about teachers typically being plagued by stressful situations and poor pay. Blake not so quick. You have met my wife. She has her Masters and completed it in 2 years. She is in her first year of teaching Nursing as a full time faculty instructor. Last year she taught just clinicals. She is a nurse of 17 years and 22 years in the health field. She is now taking a long look at if its worth it. The hours.... try on average 65-73 a week. It absorbs her weekends correcting papers and getting ready for class time for the week ahead. The pay??? Yes she makes more and yes more wouldnt make the job easier or more pleasent. Its the work load thats on her. Yes she gets the Summers off. During that Summer though she has to build her tests and ETC. She calls it building her class. Now where she was before she left she had 8 weeks vacation paid. So in a sense a wash. Now my wife unlike other teaching jobs has something to fall back on (nursing) she can go back in a heart beat. Some teachers teaching HS or what have you don't have the option. Now I do agree some teachers get plenty pay vs the work. But many don't. The ones that are making really good money have been at it a long time usually and they are coming up or getting close to retirement. The ones coming in are not getting the pay and are getting a work load they didn't even sometimes know coming in. BTW have you been to any large school's lately?? The kids are real rude. They swear at teachers,disrupt all the time. My Daughters school has 3000 plus. If they sent a child down to the Principals office when a child outburst.... lets just say they'd have 100's every day. Oh and let me tell ya suspending kids take that like ya gave them a gift for X-Mas.lol These school teachers have it tough. I wouldn't want the job. These kids are terrible and alot of there parents don't even care it seems. | ||
| Kenm123t |
I agree with you bads1 The problem isnt guns its liberals raising monsters. The teenage girls that chase my son are vile nasty creatures not a lady in the bunch He wont have any thing to do with them. He wasnt raised that way! | ||
| Aesquire |
Here, Blake I have to disagree with you. The Teaching gig, now that it's A Federal control issue, everywhere, isn't the great thing it was in our day. There is a pervasive push towards the centralized , utterly insane, Dept. of Education. Teachers have to jump through hoops on certifications that are ridiculous, ( while actual competence is ignored ) etc. etc. etc. ( just assume a 5 minute rant on kickbacks, certification schools, politicians rant froth gibber ) All from the Holy City Of DC. Among the idiocies are conflicting rules on self defense, ( you can't ) and authority, ( none ) and responsibility ( OH MY FREAKING GODS!!! Teachers have to inspect lunches for peanuts! It's 1984! Or they get sued! BY DC! ) So, not like we remember, when the really hot English teacher back in 7th grade had that bitchin Camaro, partied in Cabo, had the reddest lips..... Sorry, where was I? I hope this ends the whole "knock the teacher" riff, from everyone. "Bitch about the Superintendants"? Heck yeah. They get paid awesome! | ||
| Aesquire |
Britchri10, Thanks, good perspective. Want to keep the UN in London for a while? | ||
| Britchri10 |
It can be in London for all I care. It's a very multiracial city & one more boondoggle in town will not make that much difference. I live in Fla & do not pay UK taxes so having it there might save me some $$$. Chris C | ||
| Rick_a |
<sarcasm>But won't disarming citizens make all society safer in America?</sarcasm> | ||
| Jerzydevil |
OK, I'm gonna admit I didn't read the whole thread,so if this was already brought up, sorry. But we have a paid military. We have the reserves in every state. Why have to raise taxes? They are being paid already. Who better for the best military in the world to protect, then our own children??? | ||
| Union_man |
Deploying the military into the civilian population to enforce laws. Talk about a SLIPPERY SLOPE! Isn't that what Dictators do? Scary. A last resort...hopefully. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Union look up posse comitatus Its illegal to use Troops to enforce civilian Law Last misuse was by Clinton in Waco where a military unit was used to kill the women and children and every one else. The Demoncrats also interned ( for you union types ILLEGALLY IMPRISONED AMERICAN CITIZENS) for being of japanese heritage. |
