| Author | Message | ||
     Union_man |
It would cost approximately $5.4 Billion dollars. You would have to raise taxes or try to cut spending even further to pay for the NRA's recommendation. Most likely local taxes would go up too. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-much-cost-put- cops-164808657.html MORE...You cannot make this shit up! It's a true Republican circus.  Hypocrite of 2013 candidate... Grover Norquist is a NRA Board Member. Facepalm. http://meetthenra.org/nra-member/Grover%20Norquist | ||
| Sifo |
Already  here... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/701094.html?1356150554 | ||
| Davegess |
one cop is useless, first target would be the cop. Need two. Cost would be more like 15 billion a year but who cares; money is no object the tea party guys like higher taxes And the NRA wants a database of everyone with mental illness. Wow talk about threats to our liberty! | ||
| Ninefortheroad |
Very interesting! Let's do a little more math.... $5,400,000,000 (Cost est.) divided by 216,885,357 (# of taxpayers in US 2012) = $24.90 per tax payer (Where do i send my $25 check to get this coverage for my kids!) Oh, the number of schools with cops at it is actually lower than that, some schools already have one! We will have also created ~98,817 good paying jobs in the US of A And a little more math... Estimated loss of jobs if a strict ban is put in place.... My conservative est -10% of current industry jobs: 209,000 *.1 = 20,900 less jobs at an overall economic impact of $3,183,879,976 (source http://nssf.org/impact/) Some folks just need to put their emotions and prejudices aside and open their mind to alternate possibilities. Now again, Where do I send my $50 check! ( I throw in for you for the first year!!!) | ||
| Cowboy |
9 4 the road-------That is a great post I say U D MAN | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Cut teachers pensions. $$ problem solved. Or they should pay for it out of their own salary. Teachers, administration, all the way to janitors should have the ability to ccw. Each school should have the option to enable any of the above to ccw for student protection at their discretion. Our kids are in their hands during school hours and they deserve to be in a safe enviornment. They shouldn't HAVE to have a police officer... tax payers already pay enough. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
There is a school in Texas that has many teachers that ccw.... they have no extra problems and do not have any lock downs like other schools. | ||
| Ninefortheroad |
XDx I tend to agree with you but getting buy-in from most areas of the country for CCW at school is not going to be very popular. It also will not do much to relieve the impending possibility of some sort of weapons ban that, as we all should realize, will not do anything significant to reducing the chances for future incidents. | ||
| Maxbuell |
X cut teachers pensions.. REALLY ? Do you have a clue ? How many hours teachers work off the clock, how little they earn and how weak there pensions are.. Speaking about Florida teachers here.. Give the teachers sum respect! | ||
| Maxbuell |
How many of theese teachers have but them selfs' in harms way to protect the children in their classrooms ? That is not in their job description!! These women(in most part) have shown great bravery in very hostile times.. Yea cut there pay.. un f-ing beleivable!! | ||
| Xdigitalx |
So.. having 3-6 teachers, Administrative personnel or janitors at each school trained to defend against crazies is gonna cost more than having 1-2 Police officer's full-time? Yea.. I think each school should be required to have and budget for 3-6 trained ccw adults in the building during school hours. cut the pensions by 1/10 of a percent to pay for it, I still pay too much for school taxes and I don't have any kids in school anymore. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
The ones that do not ever want to put themselves in harms way,... to save the children, do not have to but if no one at the school volunteers.. they should have to hire someone... and then also pay for it. (and not by taxing the locals) | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Very simple and would not interfere in any way shape or form with any childs education. You could think of them as Child Guards. Probably would look good on a resume too. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
The safety of the children should go hand in hand with their education don't you think? | ||
| Sifo |
Statistically, kids are more likely to be struck by lightning. Why are we not in a panicked frenzy trying to protect them from lightning strikes? I still say allow for an all of the above approach. I really have no problem with armed cops. Also allow teachers to carry providing they meet any criteria deemed reasonable to demonstrate competency. Security technology also can play a part. How many people to secure a school though? I get to see a variety of schools as part of my job. They aren't simple four sided buildings with limited access. Most have complex architecture with over a dozen points of entry. Last year I was picking up kids at a high school at "door # 42". I kid you not, DOOR # 42! The complex architecture makes for many places to hide and keep many entrances hidden from view from many angles. Simply posting a guard or two at the front entrance isn't a bad idea, it just doesn't provide for a secure building. It will pacify 99% of the sheeple until we are asking ourselves how something horrible happened at a school with armed guards. I won't bother explaining how to be far more effective in attacking a school than we have ever seen to date. It would likely be seen in poor taste anyway. Trust me though, if you ever really think about how to attack a school, you will realize they are extremely soft targets by design. The biggest thing that prevents these kinds of school shootings is a lack of people who want to shoot up schools. Spend all the money you want securing schools, you will accomplish very little in changing real world outcomes other than conditioning people to become sheeple, obediently obeying every single command given by those in power. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
A quick Google search reveals..."An average of about 240 children under 5 years old drown in swimming pools nationwide each year. But CPSC also has reports of about 110 children under 5 who have drowned in other products in and around the home each year. These products include bathtubs, hot tubs, spas, buckets and other containers." BAN WATER NOW !!!! (Message edited by ferris_von_bueller on December 22, 2012) | ||
| Ninefortheroad |
Sifo: "I won't bother explaining how to be far more effective in attacking a school than we have ever seen to date. It would likely be seen in poor taste anyway. Trust me though, if you ever really think about how to attack a school, you will realize they are extremely soft targets by design. The biggest thing that prevents these kinds of school shootings is a lack of people who want to shoot up schools. Spend all the money you want securing schools, you will accomplish very little in changing real world outcomes other than conditioning people to become sheeple, obediently obeying every single command given by those in power. " A very defeatist point of view, guess we are doomed and should do nothing. I don't think you need to explain more ways to attack a school and the soft target, most of us can do some of that even though we don't have your experience. Like many situations we face, there is no 100% safe/protected position or solution. I think what we are all trying to discuss is what can be done reasonably to help reduce the likelihood this and similar situations from occurring as quickly and as cost effectively as possible. ...and also retain our rights to keep and bear arms and just not ones selected by our Gov't. | ||
| Ninefortheroad |
"A quick Google search reveals..."An average of about 240 children under 5 years old drown in swimming pools nationwide each year. ...." I guess that is why almost all public beaches and all public pools have lifeguards, even though that can be sort of expensive. Sort of the same but different.... | ||
| Malott442 |
Why not a cop AND volunteer CCW administrators? Whoever said the money should come out of the teacher's pockets= xdigitalx that is a horrible idea. Teachers are amongst the most underpaid professions in the US. They have 100k educations and the responsibility of molding our future generations, yet make just enough money to keep them out of the welfare line. (at least in the south). Teachers are living proof that people will make sacrifices to do what they love. Financially and in this past week's case, their own lives. You can count my tax dollars towards it, even though I don't have kids. Even though my tax dollars actually count only because I don't have kids. Paid out 12k in federal this year, probably getting another 80 dollar check like last year. If I had 3 kids, I would receive 12.5k or more back. That's a whole other can of worms though. More guns may not be the SIMPLE answer everyone demands. It will be the PRESENCE that helps. And like I've said before, it's on the parents' shoulders to quit letting the media raise their children. Get off your computer and play ball with your kid, teach them morals. | ||
| Cowboy |
9-4-the road---Due to the vast NO. of AIDS victoms I wonder when BHO will attempt to ban SEX. | ||
| Sifo |
Defeatist? Doomed? Not my point at all. I'm just being realist. The threat is almost non-existent on a per-capita basis in the first place. I would hardly describe that as predicting doom. I did suggest an all of the above sort of approach if you feel the need to further reduce the threat though. If that is defeatist in your mind, then I don't know what to say. Posting one or two guards at the front entrance isn't really much of a deterrent when you have schools with many entrances and many hidden areas that provide cover. If you really want secure schools, they need to be designed as securable buildings. That would be part of the all of the above approach. They are talking about never using the school again in CT. Do you thing the new school will really be designed to be a tactically securable building? I think it will be designed to be interesting to the eye. Of course, going back to the reality of the threat, that doesn't bother me much. | ||
| Blake |
Max, Help us understand... If they are indeed so underpaid, what is the avg salary for teachers in America? In Florida? On average how many hours do they work per year towards their base salary, not including after hours sports and activities for which they receive additional compensation? What is the average value of teachers' benefits? Average tuition at an in-state college towards a degree in education? Not just the big name state universities, but junior colleges and other four year universities, online universities too. . I don't buy that teacher pay is too low, benefits too lean, or their college necessarily anywhere near $25K per yr. Mallott, >>> "Teachers are amongst the most underpaid professions in the US." By what measure? Please see my questions above to Max. As far as professions go, teaching children seems to me to be one of the least stressful, least performance oriented, least demanding, yet most secure professions there is. I think good teachers are truly a blessing, and are among the few vital professions in society. I also think they've done a great job playing up the poor underpaid, unappreciated public servant. For the most part that just doesn't hold up under well-reasoned scrutiny. | ||
| Blake |
http://m.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-sta te | ||
| Blake |
http://www1.salary.com/Public-School-Teacher-Salar y.html | ||
| Sifo |
Don't forget teaching is seasonal work too. That "annual" salary is part time annual hours. Who wouldn't like 2 months off in the summer, winter break, spring break, and a whole slew of holidays. How many of you got three days off for Thanksgiving? | ||
| Xbduck |
Wow you guys must not have educators in your family. Your statements are so far off base this might as well be another political thread. My wife, who has taught for 18 years will not see the VA average for another 7-10 years. She has not had a raise in 4 years, the politicians here got theirs. She puts in more unpaid time than you could imagine, and her education would cost $ 21,000 a year now. If I didn't have to go back to work now, believe me you would hear more. | ||
| Sifo |
This thread is getting way off topic, but why is your wife's pay after 18 years so much lower than the average? There must be a reason. I'm guessing VA might have a wide variation in pay regionally. How does her pay compare locally? I can imagine a lot of unpaid time being put in. I've done lots myself. It very often comes with the job of a salaried employee. Most teachers don't have to keep developing new lesson plans every year. No doubt that is a lot of work, but most subject through high school just don't change that rapidly. I can see where some subjects will require more time than others for test grading, there are variables. There is the possibility that your wife is just very dedicated. If that's the case, she has my utmost respect. If she is indeed doing a superior job, then she should get superior pay. Unfortunately the teaching system isn't set up that way. That's a shame. Current cost of her education? That's another issue with the education system. It's getting increasingly expensive while not really adding more value. | ||
| Ninefortheroad |
OK... Sifo, I understand your point of view but don't agree. Trying to get back OT... I think for a paltry $25 a year, it is worth placing a qualified security person to increase our children's security to some extent, and increase the deterrent to the would be assailant. For me that is sacrificing less than one weeks beer money or the first 15 minutes of ammo at the next range session. There have been several other good suggestions above that would also help. Train, qualified and certified volunteers would also help. Once I am retired, I would be proud and honored to guard our nations future as a part-time volunteer and sure there are many more like me across the country! It may not be "realistic" solution to some, but I support it as an improvement, not a total solution. We can re-build/re-work all schools with full security and entrance/exit control a little later down the road. | ||
| Sifo |
I think for a paltry $25 a year, it is worth placing a qualified security person to increase our children's security to some extent, and increase the deterrent to the would be assailant. For me that is sacrificing less than one weeks beer money or the first 15 minutes of ammo at the next range session. There have been several other good suggestions above that would also help. Train, qualified and certified volunteers would also help. Once I am retired, I would be proud and honored to guard our nations future as a part-time volunteer and sure there are many more like me across the country! It may not be "realistic" solution to some, but I support it as an improvement, not a total solution. We can re-build/re-work all schools with full security and entrance/exit control a little later down the road. For the most part I don't question your logic in all of this. Here's the problem though. Once you have hardened the schools against this sort of attack, the would be attacker will simply choose a different soft target. At that point are we really any safer? I don't think so. We have simply moved the threat from one area of our lives to another. And just how much of a threat are we talking about? In the grand scheme of things, mass murder by gun accounts to a miniscule number of deaths in our country. The ones in schools are even a smaller number. When are we satisfied? When all schools are hardened? Shopping Malls? Theaters? Amusement parks? Train stations? Libraries? Restaurants? Hotels? Public roads? Parks? Private homes? Are police states safe from these sorts of attacks? No they are not. That is part of the problem. We will never be completely safe no matter what we do. The question is how much do we spend and how much freedom do we give up? How much paranoia do we instill in our families along the way? | ||
| Toona |
I understand the armed school guard idea. Let's say a school hires 1 or 2 guards. Now I'm going to play devil's advocate: Who's to say the potential shooter won't just wait for the students either before or after school, while they file in or out? Or they pull out in front of a school bus full of students, stopping it. The kids are "sitting ducks" trapped with no escape. As much as I like the armed guard idea, I see so many "holes" were they would be left ineffective. My local middle/high school has 6 entrance/exit doors. And this is with a graduating class of about 100 kids/year. I'm not sure of total ms/hs enrollment numbers, but keep the average of 100 per class, that 700 kids (5th-12th). There is no way that you could reasonably expect them to all use 1 or 2 doors that are patrolled, even if you could, 15 feet down the sidewalk, they are exposed en masse. Going off the ccw teacher idea: Playing devils advocate again... Let's say 5-6 teachers carry... The shooter gets inside the building... Do they leave their classroom, leaving their students exposed, to pursue the bad guy? I think not. I'd hate to think of the lawsuits resulting from the teacher abandoning their students if one (or more) got shot. AND in this litigious society, the lawsuits that would result if it was known that a teacher did carry, but didn't leave their classroom, and someone in the school got shot because of their inaction. Teachers are there to teach, let them. They are not there for student security apart from stopping in school bullying etc. Sad reality is we live in an evil world, as much as we would like to believe our communities are a perfect utopia where nothing bad ever happens. |
