| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
It's really the wrong choice of weapon to kill someone inside of a building. I'm still waiting to hear definitively what weapons were actually used. At first the story seemed to be 2 pistols and an AR-15. Then it was that the AR-15 was left in the trunk. Since then, I've also heard it was only the AR-15, or that it was 2 pistols plus and AR-15, plus a shotgun left in the trunk. Any of those combinations can get the job done quite well. I do find it interesting that sources that claim the use of the AR-15 tend to have a certain slant. Time will tell. I have my suspicions. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Today, I heard an audio recording of a police official stating it was only the AR-15 that was used. | ||
| Kenm123t |
In So fla we have had full time leos on site since the 70s My steps son's High School has 4 full time deputies We had a problem with students attacking teachers and teachers not allowed to defend themselves. So either full time leos or we don't teach ! They really deal with the whack jobs Mental instability is the real issue. Our Pols want to kill all the sheep dogs since they have teeth like the wolves. I suggest liberal anti gunners watch Nat Geo and Animal planet shows about Predators and how they pick the weak and defenseless as prey. Refuse to be a victim ! | ||
| Glitch |
It's just the idea that some teachers might carry that creates the unknowns for the bad guy. One of my favorite signs...  | ||
| Bads1 |
I'm pretty sure that if it was well know that they could carry would change the mind of someone set out to shoot up a school. Would it Dave ??? Someone that in the end turns the gun on himself?? It takes illness to do even that. So I'm sorry someone coming into a school isn't afraid to die. They are on a mission. The person's that they are targeting have no mission and quite frankly not even ready for what is about to happen. MY child goes to a school of over 3000 plus. Cops on duty.... you need to be rang in to come in the school. Heck theres a 5 plus parents there for everything from tardiness because there child cant make it to school or failing grade and having a meeting with a teacher. Then theres parents that donate there time to help at the school.... sports...acting.....etc etc. A parent could easily be a perp. Theres so many senerio's. Adding more guns is going to do what???lol So let me close with this. My wife just came home a couple hours ago. Yep shes happy... finals for her is over. She teaches nursing at a local Tech College. They have 4 campus in 4 counties. 100's of union instructors met today at a rec center big enough to house all. They have meetings frequently but usually not ALL. Guns and teachers were brought up. Can I tell you.......lets just say they looked at it as not a option. | ||
| Bads1 |
BTW Dave I have two very..... very good guard dogs. My house is pretty safe. If they kill the dogs they better shoot. Then after that noise they have no time. The gun alerted the neighbors. | ||
| Pikeben08 |
Regarding the stealing of a teacher's gun. I don't think it's too crazy to suggest that a teacher might leave their gun in their desk unlocked. Sure you can say it is supposed to be on their person at all times but people aren't always smart and don't always follow the rules. Or in situations like the one ken described they could simply get bum rushed. They are teachers not special forces. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Bads1,..that kind of attitude is EXACTLY what they hope for. Or expect. Keep it Simple. Keep our kids safe at school or loose your pension. Go get training. Increase taxes by 10% to pay for it. First aid & minimal gun training etc. someone that in the end turns the gun on himself?? It takes illness to do even that. So I'm sorry someone coming into a school isn't afraid to die. They are on a mission. Exactly.. on a mission to KILL innocent human beings. NOT to be killed... other wise they would walk into a police station or somewhere where they can be killed easily. They want to destroy as much and as quickly as possible and to do it for the longest possible time before they are dead. | ||
| Sifo |
Regarding the stealing of a teacher's gun. I don't think it's too crazy to suggest that a teacher might leave their gun in their desk unlocked. Sure you can say it is supposed to be on their person at all times but people aren't always smart and don't always follow the rules. Or in situations like the one ken described they could simply get bum rushed. They are teachers not special forces. Same potential with armed security, except that it they want to bum rush the security, the gun is hanging out in the open and you know exactly who has the gun. It's a shame there is such fear of solutions that have been proven elsewhere. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Lock box. Not unsimilar to the fire alarm... built into the wall...once opened the entire school would know about it. Make it part of the school system and building code. You don't think twice about fire extinguishers, exit signs, or other safety features in a school... make it so eventually this will become as one of those. If your teachers have to loose alittle pension or benefits to help pay for it,... so be it. Aren't the children worth it? | ||
| Blake |
>>> I'm liberal. I don't think banning guns is the answer. >>> If it was fifty years ago i would absolutely ban handguns. LOL! You're too much Andy. >>> I also don't think arming teachers is the answer. In fact I think it's just plain dumb. The idea is not to arm teachers. The idea is to allow teachers to arms themselves if they so desire and can pass the required licensure examination and proficiency tests. It's simple 2nd Ammendment. >>> What i would worry about with arming the teachers is the judgment required. they are teachers not trained professionals. Will their judgment end in them killing a kid accidentally. that's a lot more guns in schools i would say an accident would be unavoidable. Typical endless hand-wringing. No matter what solution anyone might suggest, there will ALWAYS be the timid hand wringers to question it. The question to ask is not "might some negative unintended consequence ever possibly manifest", but rather does the benefit and principles involved outweigh the possible negative unintended consequence. Every time you get in your car or ride your bike you are weighing exactly such a scenario, and you have a MUCH higher chance of being killed while driving or riding than does any child of being murdered in school. The hypocrisy is off the charts. Get some perspective! Stop the hand wringing and stop sanctioning the gift-wrapping of targets of opportunity ("gun free" zones) for psychopathic mass murderers! HUNDREDS of young children (14 and younger) are killed EVERY YEAR by drunk drivers. The anti-gun activists have blood on their hands. Teachers if they so choose, ought to be free to defend themselves and their charges. Our schools ought not be gift-wrapped soft-targets for mass-murdering psychopathic cowards. Dana, I know for certain that some teachers absolutely desire to be able to arm themselves at work. | ||
| Glitch |
They already have guns in your school (Cops on duty), which is mostly my point. Going by the media ( I know that's a dangerous thing ) the kid did himself in when he heard the police sirens. Sure he was on a mission, it was cut short by the police coming, and he shot himself. If the police didn't come as fast as they did, do you think he would have kept on shooting, or do you think he would have killed himself as he did when he did? I don't think it's too crazy to suggest that a teacher might leave their gun in their desk unlocked. Yeah, I don't think much of teachers these days either... | ||
| Sifo |
Someone that in the end turns the gun on himself?? It takes illness to do even that. So I'm sorry someone coming into a school isn't afraid to die. They are on a mission. Those people choose soft targets like schools for a reason. Make the school a slightly less soft target and they will likely go elsewhere. They love the gun free zones. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. | ||
| Sifo |
Yeah, I don't think much of teachers these days either... I'm a bit shocked by the perceived incompetency of teachers in this thread too. Of course, this is why I would prefer letting those who have demonstrated competency by completing weapons training courses be allowed to carry by choice. Forcing the sheep to arm themselves is absurd. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I don't think it's too crazy to suggest that a teacher might leave their gun in their desk unlocked. My Lord, really? That's the best argument against guns in schools you could come up with? | ||
| Glitch |
Sifo, I'm so glad you got my sarcasm... I was afraid I might have to explain it, and explaining things in this thread seems pretty useless. I don't mind people not agreeing with me (it happens all the time) but when they just don't get what I'm trying to say, it's pretty annoying. Having said that, while I don't agree with the gun banning crowd, I do understand their argument, and they are right. Let me explain why I think they are right, IF we could abolish every gun known to mankind, there wouldn't be any more gun deaths, in that, they are right. What's not understood (I reckon) is they don't understand: #1: It's a Constitutional Right to bare arms, period. It'd take a Constitutional amendment to change that, I doubt seriously that would ever happen as long as politicians are worried about getting re-elected. #2: With as many guns as there are out there, it's like slamming the barn door after the horse done got out. #3: People that want to keep the Right outnumber those that want them banned. Sure the gun ban crowd is loud, but they're still outnumbered. #4: Cliche time: If you outlaw guns only outlaws will own guns. If all you needed was a law, wouldn't the outlawing of murder be enough? | ||
| Glitch |
My Lord, really? Makes the mind wobble don't it | ||
| Sifo |
My Lord, really? That's the best argument against guns in schools you could come up with? I thought it was and argument for more responsible teachers.  | ||
| Gregtonn |
I'm sure that at least two members of the faculty who "lunged at" the shooter prior to being killed would have traded that futile move for a chance to put a bullet between his eyes. Seeing a six year old's dead body hit the floor can certainly change your perspective. G | ||
| Ratbuell |
I don't think we need to mandate ANYthing. Just ALLOW. Allow those of us who don't want to sit and watch...to fight back if the need arises. Give those who desire to take the tests, and pass the classes...the CHOICE to do so. Simple. As it sits, I don't know what would be worse - having something like this occur in front of me...or having to sit there and WATCH, because politicians refuse to let me defend myself and those around me to the best of my abilities. If all I could do is watch...I'd probably behave just like the principal. Rush the perp, knowing full well that I was going to die. At least I wouldn't have to live with the memories of sitting and watching while children died around me, knowing I could have done SOMEthing...if only the rules weren't so ••••••• stupid. | ||
| Fahren |
#1: It's a Constitutional Right to bare arms, period. Not really a good idea, in all cases... | ||
| Sifo |
It's been pointed out that guns used to be allowed in schools. Has there ever been an instance where someone grabbed one of these guns that were freely allowed in a school and committed mass murder? I didn't think so. | ||
| Boltrider |
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| Sifo |
Camelarm?  | ||
| Ratbuell |
The other benefit of ALLOW versus MANDATE: If you MAKE someone do something...they sigh, roll their eyes, and put on a display of doing what they're told, and liking it. Then, when "authority" leaves...the gun goes in a drawer. If you ALLOW someone to do something...they are doing it because they CARE. A gun carried into a school by a caring teacher would be kept safe, within reach, at all times because that person carrying it UNDERSTANDS what its presence means. They UNDERSTAND the magnitude. They've taken the classes. They've dedicated the time to learning, and practicing...not because they have to, but because they WANT to. And that, my friends, is worth its weight in gold. Bare arms? ugh...  | ||
| Pikeben08 |
Actually I have a lot of respect towards teachers, I married one. My comments were mostly directed towards the mandate plan not the choose to carry plan. I guess the point I was trying to make was the more guns you have in the school the more chances for one to fall into the wrong hands. The lockbox idea isn't bad, but then you have to go get the gun which takes time. I'd still be in favor of a trained professional. I think our teachers have enough on their plates. | ||
| Pikeben08 |
Thanks fahren I think this discussion needed that. Pit-gina?  | ||
| Sifo |
I think our teachers have enough on their plates. It really adds nothing to their plate. I know there are teachers who already carry out of school. This would just let them do what they normally do by choice. The hand wringing about a gun getting into the wrong hands isn't based on any kind of historical data. Same concern out in public where people DO carry. Their guns don't just jump from their holsters. | ||
| Oldog |
I can agree with Rat, Allow carry with qualifications. Many folks have objections to firearms-so a requirement is a violation of their rights. again control of access, and armed protection inside are the best prevention I have a question, Are any of you aware of a shooting at a school with armed security? | ||
| Ljm |
I have visited several schools recently, children and grandchildren. The very most disturbing thing in those visits is that I went in, stood around, signed a kid out, and no one ever asked for my I.D. or what I was doing. Had I been a shooter, or a kidnapper, I could have had free reign. All arming and concealing arguments aside, no one is watching. The doors aren't locked, and no one is asking or looking or wondering what a guy my age is doing at an elementary school and when I pick up my grandson outside in the bus line, he leaves with me without a single person noticing. We can talk about response in a crisis, but the reality is that we do NOTHING to prevent one. If our schools were a fortress guarding our most precious assets rather than trusting that everyone is going to be honest, normal and non-dangerous the chances of repeat events happening would decrease at the very least. On a lighter note, after September 11, I got pulled out of line and searched more than 20 times in a row. My oldest daughter's comment was, "I would search someone who looked like you too." So why not at school? Just wondering. |
