| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
Do you feel that because you are an admin on this board that you can get away with all the personal insults and such?? You know...the ones like union members can't read well, math is hard, and calling us stooges. If you are in support or are defending the actions of the group taken in the video or the actions taken by this group of UNION folks against an innocent hot dog vendor, then none of what I have said constitutes insults. You ARE stooges, you DON'T read well, you DO lack critical thinking. If I'm out of line, I'll get an email telling me so. Constructive debating, that is debating with the goal of educating and being educated on issues in order to elevate all involved, is healthy. It is. Unfortunately no amount of education will change the minds of many (50% of the population it would seem). I have spent YEARS working to educate any who are willing to listen. The result is nothing. I'm beyond it now. Those who are assertive debaters can support their thoughts with facts and opinion, I guess you completely missed the supporting evidence for which there has been NO rebuttal evidence. There isn't a position I take that I can't back up with historical facts, economic principles, or numerical analysis. Don't believe me? Try me. Not only is it counterproductive to debate in this manner it will almost always cause people to turn away from your point of view and distance themselves from you as well. If you side with the scum in that video, I couldn't give a tinkers damn whether you distance yourself from me or not. I will treat you the way you should be treated, as enemies of liberty and proponents of the destruction of my nation. | ||
| Sifo |
Just an observation for 6gears... I've got no problem with you pointing out bad behavior by FB. Why ignore his valid comments though? Is your skin really that thin that you can't continue and answer his questions because you've slighted with a mildly derogatory comment? In short, point out the bad behavior and get back on track. It's a solid debating tactic... As long as you have strong points to be made. Or you can bow out claiming to be offended. Whatever works for you. | ||
| Sifo |
Just the right wing in Michigan the people did not vote for it How many times recently have we heard "elections have consequences"? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Can ANYONE explain to me why the freaking teachers need a union though? Sure. Power. Ask the leadership: Teacher's unions effectively eliminate ANY competition to their power base. Ever notice that it doesn't matter how much money you pour into education, the standardized scores never rise? | ||
| 6gears |
I am not trying to ignore anybody on here. I am WORKING... 7 12s all week trying to help make the fuel that keeps america moving. Hard to spend hours researching and typing when I am running a 320 trackhoe. I don't stand behind what the idiots in Michigan did. My union has not had alot of problems and there are a BUNCH of guys on the bench looking for work so take it for whatever you want. I guess my only problem is general statements that ALL unions are bad for EVERYONE, ALL THE TIME. Am I happy to be working...YES. Do I love what I do, YES. Around here, if you are not an owner/operator you make about $15 an hour to run equipment. I honestly don't even know how you get a job running a crane without being union....NO JOBS around here that I have found doing that. You guys win. Enjoy. I am giving up, LOL. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Operators LOL you folks well never live to see a pension. that pension plan has been in ERISA for years. The Union guys stole the plan broke years ago. Look upThe Union Labor report on how your Good Union leaders have stolen their locals blind and a list of the broke or soon to be broke locals. That $ you gave Obama etc could have saved many pensions. | ||
| 99savage |
Really wish people would knock off the union/anti-union B.S. – Just what our handsome, young President is trying to promote. To start let us draw a clear and bright line between the craft/industrial type unions and the public sector ones. – If individuals want to gather together to negotiate with a private employers it is none of our business; they and their employers will succeed or fail on their own. – There is no excuse for public sector unions. The stakeholders, the taxpaying public, has no seat at the table. Are unions problems sometimes? Sure – Are they an explanation for all the ills currently befalling us? No, no, and hell no. Will the Michigan “Right-To-Work” law affect any of the craft/industrial unions? – Naw, they will be just fine. Life will continue unchanged. Might be a few more non-union start ups who will succeed or fail on their own. True story. – Was working for a rust-belt manufacturing firm that was failing big time. The work force might have been a small factor in the failure but mostly they were railing on their own. We got bought out by a Romney type turn-around specialist; a family held corporation with headquarters in Alabama. He owned plants in many states, some of them Right-To-Work. – Figured the 1st thing he did would be to bust the unions. Instead he mostly ignored them. I expressed surprise and he told me unions were great vehicle to communicate with the workforce. As time passed also noted that he took advantage in the internecine warfare between the unions representing his different plants to make himself strike proof. | ||
| Sifo |
It's great when in the middle of theoretical discussions, real life provides a current example. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/12/11/aldermen-ca lling-for-controversial-ohare-janitorial-contract- to-be-re-bid/ Looks like Rahm Emanuel is giving the boot to SEIU workers at O'Hare. To state it more accurately, the lost the bidding process. A non-union shop is going to do it cheaper. Bad for the workers, right? Might want to rethink that...
So the non-union folks will wind up getting more pay and better healthcare benefits. THE HORROR!!! The article also mentions the mob ties of the union shop. Shocking. | ||
| Sifo |
You have to wonder, just how hard are police looking for the guy who was giving out the punches. I mean just how many people named Tony can there possibly be at the IBEW local 876?   If only they could get a description of the guy.  Apparently it's going to take some real detective work to find this guy. They may never be able to find him! | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Don't worry, he will probably be interviewed by Diane Sawyer... | ||
| Sifo |
"Just know one thing, Rick Snyder: You sign that bill, you won’t get no rest. We’ll meet you on Geddes Road. We’ll be at your daughter’s soccer game. We’ll visit you at your church. We’ll be at your office. Because Michigan workers will not take it laying down — by any means necessary!" http://thestockmarketwatch.com/news/news.aspx?arti cleid=617694 This is pretty much in the veiled threat territory. Very classy! | ||
| 6gears |
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-contributor-st even-crowder-confirms-he-started-fight-with-union- protester/ Wonder if there is any truth to this?? "Just know one thing, Rick Snyder: You sign that bill, you won’t get no rest. We’ll meet you on Geddes Road. We’ll be at your daughter’s soccer game. We’ll visit you at your church. We’ll be at your office. Because Michigan workers will not take it laying down — by any means necessary!" Yep, looks like a true threat to me.... No harm in making a appearance, just ask Crowder. I am trying to give up on this, but it is too much fun. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Sounds like the perfect place for a Suicide by Swat team or by Xe bodyguards since they threatened his family | ||
| Sifo |
Wonder if there is any truth to this?? Truth to what exactly? Crowder has said he was pushing people off the tent. They were literally trampling the tent with people still under the canvas. IF, and I do mean IF, the guy who threw punches is complaining of being pushed, then he was among those trampling the tent. Who is the aggressor in this situation? I would have to say the one trampling the tent, not the one trying to prevent the trampling. Context is everything. Yep, looks like a true threat to me.... No harm in making a appearance, just ask Crowder. I am trying to give up on this, but it is too much fun. So you have no problem with the union making threats on and elected leaders daughter? Really? You are part of the problem. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Sifo watch the Video I saw one where it looked like Crowder was hit before the tent went down. It may be another tent I ll have to find a complete video and not just a few second clip | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm with 99savage on this. Public sector unions are cons. Money machines for the politicians that vote on the contracts. A clear and obvious conflict of interest, and corruption. Billions of corruption. Unions, per se, are not a bad thing. In many ways it's easier for a ( real life ) company to deal with union labor. The costs are spelled out and the business plan can be made with better precision. The HR dept. can be smaller, and you have less issues with raises and discipline, since there aren't any raises and discipline is run through the Union. OTOH, when you have NO CHOICE but to join the Union, it can be just as bad as the old "company store" days. Final comment. Card Check. I've been in shops where the union tried to get in. The company Prez came down and gave us a pep talk, the union guys came and gave us a pep talk, and we had a secret ballot. No body got hurt, a few got angry, and a few were stupidly pleased. Life went on. ( never saw the Company CEO again... ) Now we have the possibility of a big fellow coming to your house, telling you he's from the Union, and having a friendly conversation. "How's the wife? Anne, right? Works at the Hospital."..."Hows Heather doing in school? Goes to Millard Filmore Middle, right? Daughters can be a trial".... "oh yeah, here's your card" Pulls out card with your name on it and a simple check mark vote printed. "Just drop that off in the box by the time clock tomorrow, Have a nice day Pat." Just a friendly conversation between buddies. Just that. no more. Nothing to see here. Move along. | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo watch the Video I saw one where it looked like Crowder was hit before the tent went down. It may be another tent I ll have to find a complete video and not just a few second clip Still up at the beginning of the video. At that point it just verbal with someone else. Take a look at about 30 seconds in. The tent is being taken down. The guy throwing punches is right in that segment. There is an edit. In the interview I saw with Crowder he said that more video is available on this on his website. I haven't looked for the unedited version yet. It's pretty clear that the fight was while the tent was being taken down though. This guy at best should be a suspect in a mob action against innocent people, and worth being questioned by the police. I'm guessing the police union feels otherwise. Innocent people are on their own. Not a good situation by a long shot. | ||
| 6gears |
Sifo...How is that a threat? There are no threats in that statement. You can be seen/picket anywhere you want. They did not say we are gonna come to your daughters soccer game and break your legs. And the videos I have seen show the tent up behind Crowder. The videos of the tent down also looks like there is 1 or 2 people under it....nothing else. Hard to really make out from the crappy videos. I am in a VOLUNTARY union...not a forced shop. I work hand in hand with non-union employees at a major oil refinery every day. Their wages are pretty much inline with a sister union shop refinery....that is where the similarities stop. The new hires work overtime...forced, to the tune of 500+ hours a year along with the overtime they are "encouraged" to sign up for amounting to 900+ hours a year. It is simple, you don't work the OT...fired. I also have a buddy that works there who's wife just had a baby by emergency c-section. The company gave him no paid time off for ANY of it. Seems fair to me. I just don't buy this Crowder fellows story.....he seems like a bullshitter to me. | ||
| Sifo |
Not the interview I saw before, but it does show the unedited video. The editing really does little to change anything. http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/index.html#/ v/2029083518001/steven-crowder-speaks-out-on-assau lt-at-union-protest/?playlist_id=86924 | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Dam them American workers anyway ! Let's show the for once ans for all. Buy Chinese. | ||
| Sifo |
They did not say we are gonna come to your daughters soccer game and break your legs. No they didn't say they would break legs, they said by any means necessary. That implies more than simply breaking legs. The company gave him no paid time off for ANY of it. If true, they are in violation of federal law. He should see a lawyer. I just don't buy this Crowder fellows story.....he seems like a bullshitter to me. If you won't be convinced by video evidence, then you will never be convinced. Your problem, not mine. Typical union attitude though from what I've seen. Follow what the union tells you, all other evidence be damned. You are wrong about both when the tent was being taken down as well as the size of the tent. I'm sure you will never see that though. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
There were TWO tents. Crowder and the video you see is at the second tent (which they pushed down as well). | ||
| 6gears |
By any means necessary can mean ANYTHING... does not have to mean anything violent. My union has not "Told" me anything. Show me video of the ENTIRE deal with this Crowder fellow un-edited from the time he stepped out of the vehicle until he got back in it and left and then I will make a decision about all this. | ||
| Sifo |
By any means necessary can mean ANYTHING... does not have to mean anything violent. But we all know it does mean violence. You do yourself a disservice with this argument. Show me video of the ENTIRE deal with this Crowder fellow un-edited from the time he stepped out of the vehicle until he got back in it and left and then I will make a decision about all this. Do you really think that exists? What would that show? Hours of unrelated stuff? Just seeing the unedited video where the tent is being torn down and the fight breaks out just isn't good enough. You do yourself a disservice with this argument. | ||
| 6gears |
Maybe the un-edited video shows Crowder taunting and otherwise antagonizing the union members. Maybe Crowder did push this guy down first. But hey...if Foxnews shows it, it has to be true. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Any thing that happens to Geddes family and those that issued the threat will be in jail. Safer in jail than out | ||
| Xdigitalx |
That fat pig tony guy was pushing his way into the other guys personal space. Dint u see that? Fat pig tony was his name. | ||
| Kenm123t |
The IBEW settled the Verizon strike after they shot at a few contractors and destroyed company equipt. The IBEW has shown its self to be a Criminal enterprise in the past year. Its time for it to go ! | ||
| Sifo |
Maybe the un-edited video shows Crowder taunting and otherwise antagonizing the union members. Maybe Crowder did push this guy down first. But hey...if Foxnews shows it, it has to be true. Maybe you need to actually watch the video. By raising these ridiculous arguments you are proving yourself to be the union stooge, as was said much earlier. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Maybe the un-edited video shows Crowder taunting and otherwise antagonizing the union members. Maybe Crowder did push this guy down first. But hey...if Foxnews shows it, it has to be true. And you bristle when I call you a stooge? |
