| Author | Message | ||
     Moxnix |
I've failed at my calling. | ||
| Chauly |
Mox, The SCOTUS holding that Obamacare is a tax sets it up for a court challenge. It turns it into a revenue bill that Constitutionally is supposed to originate in the House. Obamacare as a law originated in the Senate, and is, as such, unConstitutional as a tax. Roberts is Cjeif Justice for a reason. He "divided the baby" without spilling a drop of blood, IMHO. | ||
| Sifo |
One question I have about Obamacare is the exemptions that were handed out. Were these written into the bill, or can these be done with a simple Presidential Order? It seemed like the President was able to wheel and deal with these to get the deal done. If it's as simple as a PO, then it's a simple thing for the next President to simply exempt each of the 49 states that aren't already exempt. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
The classes of exemptions were written into the bill, but vaguely. Be a criminal, tribal, union, 'religious', foreign, self funded, already covered under a 'qualified plan', be disparately poor and already dependant on the O, a crony (implied rather than written) But don't be white, single, non- kidded, American born, without a criminal record = your @$$ now belongs to the company store. The 'waivers' were pure Presidential pen. Admirably, the 2600 pages of the original bill, and the 1800 pages of supporting precident USC title code have birthed approximately 17000 new pages of regulations, requirements, writs, taxes, compliances, and audit opportunities. Enjoy - you voted for it : again. | ||
| Xb9er |
Well looks like the majority of America also thought this thread was a waste of time and full of garbage. Don't feel bad for your country, because your country chose who they wanted | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I wish them the very best of what could ever happen from reams of paper they never read. Enjoy it. Every last bit of it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I can get past the current generation making their own decisions and living with the consequences. I'm even willing to work hard to make it work even when I don't agree with it but lost fair and square. What makes me literally sick to my stomach is thinking about the sacrifices previous generations made, particularly in the revolutionary war, civil war, first world war, and second world war. Then thinking about the next generation, who had no voice and was either murdered in the womb, or if they are lucky enough not to be aborted will arrive at legal age of consent finding they are about $200,000 in debt for programs they could not vote against. How is that not taxation without representation? If the left wants big government (they seem too) and can win the election (they have) then fine, but they have to pay as they go, and do it within the constitution (which is supposed to prevent murder). | ||
| Sifo |
What makes me literally sick to my stomach is thinking about the sacrifices previous generations made, particularly in the revolutionary war, civil war, first world war, and second world war. Then thinking about the next generation, who had no voice and was either murdered in the womb, or if they are lucky enough not to be aborted will arrive at legal age of consent finding they are about $200,000 in debt for programs they could not vote against. How is that not taxation without representation? Exactly! What happened last time? | ||
| Xb9er |
In reference to your abortion comment, DC is for politics and church is for religion. Never mix the two because not all people are Christians like us. As for your pain for the current generation and feeling horrible about what the men before us did for this country- most of the current generation has fought for this country and/or has a higher education. So things are the same but today we have more educated people just different problems. Things are bad and will get better. Our problems cannot be solved over night. | ||
| Sifo |
In reference to your abortion comment, DC is for politics and church is for religion. Never mix the two because not all people are Christians like us. No need to bring religion into the discussion. Science tells us there's no difference between killing the unborn vs. the born except the age. Life is life. Human is human. Is it not wrong to take the life of an innocent human? | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Well looks like the majority of America also thought this thread was a waste of time and full of garbage. Don't feel bad for your country, because your country chose who they wanted And what exactly is that supposed to mean? Just because a majority chooses one thing or another doesn't mean it's the correct choice. | ||
| Sifo |
Just because a majority chooses one thing or another doesn't mean it's the correct choice. It does when you've been taught that there is no wrong. Remember 2+2=5 is OK as long as you all worked on it together and feel good about the answer. This is also how you get to where killing the unborn is acceptable. | ||
| Buellinmke |
Oh for goodness sake can you people please get over abortion? Humans have been performing abortions for thousands of years, it's been legal in the United States for almost 40 years and that's never going to change. The Republicans only lose more votes by campaigning on restricting women's right to choose what she does with her own body. Your unborn person is another person's parasite. After yesterday, the Republican party is over. They will never be able to win a national election again. That's what happens when you alienate vast groups of voters such as women, union workers, all brown people, young people, non-Christians, poor people, etc., etc., etc.
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| Rotzaruck |
Oh for goodness sake can you people please get over abortion? No | ||
| Sifo |
CNN Poll: Majority of Americans Want Abortions Prohibited
GOP Women And Abortion Dismissal Was A 'Strategic Error,' Conservatives Scold
Gallop Abortion Poll  Polling shows views to be changing on abortion. People are gradually realizing the reality of this horror. I don't really know if it would have changed this election if Romney had taken on the abortion issue, but it wasn't a major issue in the campaign from the right. As is the case in this thread today, it's the left that brought the subject up. None of that changes the fact that it's just wrong though. Please keep calling the unborn parasites. That will help people to see the misguided position of the left. Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so. - RR | ||
| Reepicheep |
Me neither. I could get over abortion if it wasn't synonymous with murder. Unfortunately, it is. Its a moral constitutional argument. That belongs in government. Were I making a religious argument, I would pray that God shows you the mercy that he has shown me and you don't burn in hell for all eternity for supporting and facilitating the murder of the most innocent of lives. But I'm not making a religious argument, I'm making a constitutional one. | ||
| Jon |
Too tired to read all the recent posts, but it will be sufficient for the moment to remind every conservative now peeing his pants that Americans did not reject conservatism, they rejected changing horses at a critical point in this economy that is rising and they rejected a mormon (fundamentalists know Mormonism as a cult. Romney did a poor job in two debates and flailed uselessly prior to that. He was not up to the task. Obama was easy to defeat, but we ended up with a dork as a candidate and prior to that, a misguided onetime hero who had settled into being a nitwit since. Blame the Republican party leadership. They all need to go. Bring on the new conservatism that takes no prisoners, no lip, and has no mediators. | ||
| Aesquire |
"Blame the Republican party leadership. They all need to go." I agree. Fiscal conservatism will sell, it was not sold well at all. Social conservatism does NOT sell. It was ignored by the candidates, but a few cretins yammering about "legitimate rape" and abortion poisoned the pool. With Obama's and the Media's "war on women" theme... that was icing on the cake for Obama. I thought Romney did good at the debates, but before that the cannibalism of the primary damaged him, too much it seems. The comeback from obscurity came far too late to change enough minds. He lost. ( half of how he lost might, probably is fraud... but he still lost ) At least we don't have to listen to 4 years of magic underwear jokes. Yes, the religion thing hurt. Bloomberg Business news did a Mormon Expose, timed well to hurt Romney. Bloomberg has a powerful means to spread his nanny state ideals. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I wonder if they had tried denying he is Mormon in the manner that Barrack denies he is Muslim. | ||
| Sifo |
With the way the media treated GWB, you have to be an incredible person to even want to go through that. They really jumped the shark with the forged NG documents. This alone has to keep a lot of potential candidates away from ever running. BO they don't even ask how he lost his law license. Just sayin'. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Sifo, in terms of what you posted regarding abortion above. Sure doesn't look like that helped ya does it? I'm thinking the GOP is going to shrink more in the coming years and possibly a 3rd party will rise. Libertarian I hope. Anyways, I agree with Buellinmike above on most parts. The GOP screwed themselves by alienating lot's of groups. You guys keep trying to push your "moral" views on everyone and watch how many more get alienated. I'm curious how many the GOP lost just over their views on gay marriage (which is becoming legal in more states after the election.) and abortion. Hell, how about their stance on weed becoming legal in, what, 2 states now? (Message edited by cataract2 on November 08, 2012) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I am to feel bad about calling a black kettle black, and black pot a pot ? nope. Actually, I think the 47% number was low; but that is just antedocal summation based on our local retailers experience through the FMCG with the EBT cards. Hell, McDonalds is now accepting food stamps. Welcome to it, and alot more of it. | ||
| Xb9er |
Sifo, are you a female? no you are not so your opinion on abortion doesn't count. I too am against abortion, however, I myself, a man, am not able to birth a child so I'm going to concern myself with issues that I apply too. abortion is a right, it should stay that way. You say BO is taking away our rights, hmmmmmm Times are changing for good. It will take a long time to get things back on track. Staying radical statements only slows down the process. If you want to blame someone for Mitt not winning, blame Ryan. | ||
| Moxnix |
3 Million fewer Repubs voting tha in'08, per the radio (a source of all wisdom, no question). They wanted a blatant and out in the open conservative. It wasn't the magic underwear, it was about Mitt being just another compromising Republican with a record off middle of the road compromise. 2012, if we still have a country, and the congressional and senate seats, could stop and reverse the juggernought of world freedom from flying off the cliff. Plus, our olf pal Rush's comment on people voting for Santa Claus is a pretty good analogy. Our unemployed have phones, homes, cars, flat screens, food and clothes, with no attention to Greece and Spain. | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo, in terms of what you posted regarding abortion above. Sure doesn't look like that helped ya does it? I'm thinking the GOP is going to shrink more in the coming years and possibly a 3rd party will rise. Libertarian I hope. Anyways, I agree with Buellinmike above on most parts. The GOP screwed themselves by alienating lot's of groups. You guys keep trying to push your "moral" views on everyone and watch how many more get alienated. Not killing others is a pretty well accepted moral code, is it not? Is an unborn not life? Science would tell us yes. Is an unborn human human? Science would say it is. So is taking that life not taking the life of another human being? Please address where you think my reasoning is wrong here. Would a Libertarian not be on the side of leaving a living human being to live? Do the words "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" not have meaning anymore? The right to life is one of the most basic of rights. Without that we are nothing. I'm curious how many the GOP lost just over their views on gay marriage (which is becoming legal in more states after the election.) and abortion. Hell, how about their stance on weed becoming legal in, what, 2 states now? At the moment there are more states that have it banned than endorse it. This will eventually be worked out by the Supreme Court. I honestly have no idea how it will shake out. There are some solid arguments on both sides of it. The thing is, it is government that is stepping on the toes of religion by redefining marriage. Do civil unions and you avoid all that. Try to force churches to do gay marriages (and that has been tried already, I didn't bother to follow what happened to the court case though) and you are in violation of the Constitution. It's not a big hot button issue with me if they can work it within the Constitution. Most people I know are in that same mindset. If you are looking for my approval of that lifestyle, go f*** yourself. If you are looking for tax dollars to flow to you for that lifestyle, go F*** yourself. I think it might be that last part where we disagree most. Sifo, are you a female? no you are not so your opinion on abortion doesn't count. That is a very lame argument. Let me just destroy that with a single question. What was the gender make up of the court that decided Roe v. Wade? Your argument might carry more weight if only females got aborted (I'm glad we're not China). It would still be incredibly flawed however. abortion is a right Really? How so? Life is a right. Killing is not a right. This argument is more flawed than the previous one. Times are changing for good. If you believe that, you don't have much grasp of the founding of our country. The Constitution was meant to prevent simple mob rule. The Constitution is being ignored. That is not change for good. By the time the useful idiots realize this, it will be far too late. | ||
| Aesquire |
The point Sifo is that NO ONE made a case against abortion during this campaign. The Obama machine pushed, hard, that R/R were going to put women back into the dark ages. It worked. ( now, you and I may KNOW that Obama has ACTUALLY done that for the women of Egypt, but NO ONE made that point either, this campaign ) You may have the moral high ground on abortion, I'll not argue it with you. It is however the law of the land, and voting against anti-abortion candidates seems to be the tide turner in this election. If Obama hadn't pushed the constant line that R/R were going to end "women's rights", things might have been different. But I think even more than that effective tactic ( perhaps dishonest, but effective, obviously... ) was the stupidity of a few jerks with R after their names saying asinine stuff like "women can't get pregnant from rape" ( or that's what they were said to have said....... Honesty in propaganda has never been a trademark of Progressives. ( an understatement of Monumental proportions ) It only takes a few bad apples... and we had some really bad ones. | ||
| Sifo |
Oh, I didn't miss that point Aesquire. This couldn't have been done without a complicit media. They did all the hard lifting for BO on this issue. I'm just willing to discuss the merits of abortion. That has nothing to do with the election that just passed. And yes, I plan to meet my maker with that moral high ground. I've already compromised myself enough in other areas of my life. | ||
| Geedee |
"The Constitution is being ignored." Why would 'The Government' need to follow The Constitution for the united states of America? It is a constitution for the people. The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (formerly the VIRGINIA COMPANY) is a corporation domiciled in Washington DC, which is not part of America. It has a constitution called the Constitution of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Corporations are fictions. Corporations are persons. Persons are fictions. The people of the united states have all declared themselves, one way or another, employees of UNITED STATES INC. You are all 'natural persons', (fictions) and under US OF A jurisdiction. The Constitution of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is corporate policy for employees of the corporation. That's also why you pay income tax. You have just elected the new board of directors of the corporation. The president of a corporation has no need to produce a birth certificate to be President of that corporation. Past time to educate yourselves and start using your God given rights. Or you can continue playing pretend. | ||
| Julie |
Is an unborn not life? Science would tell us yes. Is an unborn human human? Science would say it is. I'm a medical doctor and also a scientist. I have performed many pregnancy terminations during my career and I can state for a fact that an unborn is neither life nor human. The fetus feeds off of the resources of the host in order to survive, so until it can survive on it's own outside of the host, it is neither alive nor human. Even then it will require years of care in order to mold it into a viable human. I'm also a woman and you angry old religious men need to keep your laws and opinions out of my body. Thank you. | ||
| Sifo |
Julie, I'd like to know... If you had a DNA sample from a fetus just prior to birth, and a DNA sample from that same baby just after birth, as a medical doctor and a scientist how would you tell them apart? On a personal note, I find it odd bringing religion into a scientific discussion, especially by a self described scientist. Does religion play a big part in your science? |
