| Author | Message | ||
     Luftkoph |
We are becoming a nation of dogs,our master,government. Government will feed us dogs,house us dogs,and take us to the veterinarian if government deems it necessary,us dogs just have to be loyal and obedient,to receive our just rewards. And it matters not who the master is,there are only two who rule us dogs,and those two are closer than they are further apart from each other,there differences are a masquerade to keep us dogs barking and snapping at each other, and so distracted that they can get on with the business of making them more powerful,and us dogs more obedient. | ||
| Sifo |
Davegess, You still willing to discuss Keynesian economics? I just want to be sure I understand your position. This...   is what you believe to be the best example of Keynesian economics at work in a recovery? Seems to me it took WWII to bring us out of Keynesian economics. I really hope the plan isn't WWIII somewhere around 2015. | ||
| Glitch |
Who is John Galt? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Not satire; Expedia had a facebook ad showing the election crowd; and a tag line about "Bummed out about the Election? Book your flights to Canada now" I lol'd and when I clicked on it to make a comment - I was told the page was unavailable, I went to their main page, and indeed, the comment was gone. So the mere idea of getting out of the country because you don't like the president was censured by Fb.... Just wait until the actual movement out of the country is prohibited. Every Authoritative Cult of Personality Socialist country limits, prohibits, travel. Promotes an inclusive, immobile society; because the successful will leave, and take their money with them. And any incoming foreigners with ideas divergent than the main party line will be seen as subversive and a corrupting force against the Cult of Personality. Hello USSA, good morning comrade citizen | ||
| Sifo |
I find it amazing the things that we DON'T know about our President. I'm sure we are all aware that he and Michelle were lawyers. Does anyone know why they lost their law licenses? Typically this is something that lawyers don't just give up during their careers. You work way to damn hard to pass the bar exam to give it up unless you have to.  http://www.iardc.org/lawyersearch.asp What's up with that? Has BO ever even been asked about this? Didn't think so. | ||
| Davegess |
Sifo, I really don't have a lot of time to post on these boards WW2 did finally get us out of the great depression and yes it is certainly a massive government spending program. Lots of money making things that you then blow up. If Hoover and the rest of the world had pursued smarter policies the depression would not have been so bad. ?but they did. FDR started the climb out, reacted to concern about deficits and scaled it bace before the private economy was ready and the econmy started back ot the toilet. WW2 pretty much solved that problem. Massive government debt that lead to perhaps the greatest prosperity the US has ever known. Not purly causal I know but interesting. I think that most economists (certainly not all) agree that a Keynesian monetary and fiscal policy works to cushion these downturns. Agressive government spending on infrastruce and basic reaseach are not only stimulative but also yield a long term economic benefit. Shrinking government spending while private spending is also shrinking will prolong and deepen recessions. First step in our current situation is to stablize and restart econoimc growth. Cutting taxes without cutting spending will help. Cutting spending while the private sector is cutting back will hurt. I agree that we have a long term problem, SS, medicare and medicaid need to be fixed. Defense needs to reigned in also. Cutting Education funding will not help. I absolutly do not agree that we are building a dependent society. The argument comes about in that one cannot prove or disprove Kenysian or Hayekian theory. That is why Economics is called the dismal science. And you can't prove or disprove the dependent thing. I gotta get back to work  | ||
| Pwnzor |
I absolutly do not agree that we are building a dependent society. Respectfully sir, upon what do you base this statement? More people on food stamps and welfare than ever before, exponentially so. Numbers growing steadily. Do you refute these facts? Please tell me where I'm going wrong here. | ||
| Glitch |
Cutting taxes without cutting spending will help. Dave, put the pipe down and step away. | ||
| Garryb |
This economy will continue to improve and if the republicans ever get on board with the recovery, we could take off. There is plenty of money on the sidelines to increase modern business infrastructure. Once that takes hold, there will be plenty of jobs that pay SIGNIFICANTLY better than welfare. Basically all we need is for the republican congress to change their game from obstructionism to patriotism. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Central authority, command economy, dictated production, state mandated delivery and quotas - it has been proven to be faulty, flawed, and a failure Or are we going to ignore the 70 year lab results of the Soviet Union. Economics - Theory Economy- Reality And before you think it was a Kenyesian triumph over communism - * they were deficit spending into military almost as fast as we were - it is more the loss of face to a rag tag, third rate, under powered primitive society that showed the Soviet as weak, defeatable, and different from the state rhetoric. A lesson we will have to learn soon enough first hand. When you hand the bully his a$$ in front of the entire playground, the rest of the kids get the idea that he aint so scary after all, and his days are done. or you could try appeasement..... | ||
| Davegess |
I don't agree but I don't have time to argue. | ||
| Glitch |
There is plenty of money on the sidelines to increase modern business infrastructure. Where is this money? If you mean it's in the hands of private citizens, where is the motivation to spend it? | ||
| Sifo |
Just making sure. Feel free to respond whenever you have time. Here's the problem. FDR spent lots of money on the New Deal 1 and 2. As soon as he tried to balance the budget we got the double dip in '37. See the problem yet? Things did start getting better in '39. No question the war put a lot of people to work with a lot of government spending/borrowing. You can really put a huge dent in the unemployment rate by sending your workforce off to die in a foreign land too. I really hope that isn't in the plan this time. Here's the problem though. A typical recovery would have happened much sooner. I know that a single economic event isn't proof, but here we are having the same sort of problem with the economy by using the same theory of big government spending. As soon as the cash spigot is turned off you get instant double dip. You also get to deal with the newly developed deficit. I will give FDR credit for this much. A lot of the money he spent did provide us with dams providing us energy. This was proven technology in the day though. That's a very important difference from what BO is trying to do. He is trying to develop unproven technologies. That is at best, a huge risk. That risk is already showing itself to be largely a failure. On the down side, we have a failing SS system that anyone with a brain would opt out of if allowed. I will likely do slightly better than breaking even (not counting inflation). Younger folks, I feel sorry for. This is much like the Obamacare system that we are getting rammed down our throats. So far this one is missing all the marks and hasn't even been implemented yet. So, a quick summary, based on the FDR New Deal, Japan's lost decade, and what we are seeing currently is seems pretty safe to say that recovery is likely to take 8-12 years with Keynesian economics. I wonder what happens in the less than best examples? Clearly this is better than the average 18 month recovery that we typically see. Thanks for clearing up for us. | ||
| Sifo |
If you mean it's in the hands of private citizens, where is the motivation to spend it? That motivation will come in the form of government seizure of wealth. EDIT: They will come up with a nice warm fuzzy name for that however. (Message edited by SIFO on November 08, 2012) | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I am just hoping for more federal mandated unemployment compensation extensions for when I get laid off. Hmmm...I wonder if I will be able to get foodstamps while on unemployment? Seems like another income. I do know a deli that will give me .60 cents on the dollar for the food stamps. Hopefully it will last thru the summer so I can get a tent and go on a few trips on my bike.  | ||
| Garryb |
The reason for business to grow is to make more money and provide more jobs. Anybody who doesn't want to participate in the recovery is foolish. It will soon be clear that the economy is recovering and those who don't get on board won't particpate. (Message edited by garryb on November 08, 2012) | ||
| Sifo |
Note too, that we are currently way past FDR's debt to GDP ratio.  By this point in time FDR had attempted to balance the budget again. Obama is looking to ramp things up even more. The withdrawal from this addiction is going to be painful. I will acknowledge that GWB kicked this off. At the time he said that this is a last ditch effort to avoid falling into a bad recession. It was never intended to be a long term endeavor. That just isn't sustainable. We have a severe spending problem. You just can't solve that by spending even more in the future. We are looking at a $20 trillion deficit at the end of BO's run. Those are his numbers! I have serious doubts that we will fare as well as the government has promised. Feel free to post up any examples that should help me change my mind. | ||
| Sifo |
The reason for business to grow is to make more money and provide more jobs. Anybody who doesn't want to participate in the recovery is foolish. It will soon be clear that the economy is recovering and those who don't get on board won't particpate. It's about risk vs. reward. BO has promised less reward by promising higher taxes on cap gains. Money will look elsewhere. It's a big world out there. They will participate, just not in our economy. | ||
| Glitch |
Thing is, all those that have "plenty of money on the sidelines" have enough money to retire. They don't want to be taxed to death, or be called the evil rich, they're tired of all the finger pointing and name calling, they're taking their balls and going home. Atlas is shrugging my friend. It will soon be clear that the economy is recovering and those who doesn't get on board won't particpate. By "on board" you mean with the government? The government obviously has no idea how business is run and or created. Also, who is going on an Asian tour with the fiscal cliff looming over head, and by "over head" I mean in a couple weeks? | ||
| Garryb |
Makes sense. You can setup a very inexpensive business in Greece or Spain, in fact most of Europe right now. Not for me though, I think I'll build my business here. | ||
| Macbuell |
Many economists feel FDRs policies and actions prolonged and worsened the depression. It was World War II and the huge industrial expansion that came with it that turned things around. If not for WWII the great depression could have laster much longer. FDR and his policies did little to turn things around. Dave, you are fooling yourself if you think any type of economic recovery is going to continue when Obama raises taxes. It will come to a screeching stop because companies will adjust expenses to account for the addition tax expense. The easiest way to cut expenses is to trim headcount and eliminate investment and expansion. When that happens, look for unemployment to start trending up. | ||
| Cataract2 |
I'm thinking the midterms are going to hurt for the GOP if what I'm reading is any example of the views. | ||
| Sifo |
I'm thinking the midterms are going to hurt for the GOP if what I'm reading is any example of the views. You seem to think that the GOP should move to the left to get votes. It really doesn't matter. If America votes left I would rather the GOP go down in flames on the right with their integrity (I use that term loosely talking about politicians). | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Any projected or expected recovery will be undercut and handicapped when they reissue and devaluate the currency; look for it in 2015-6 *this would have happened no matter what puppet is in the house. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"I find it amazing the things that we DON'T know about our President. I'm sure we are all aware that he and Michelle were lawyers. Does anyone know why they lost their law licenses? Typically this is something that lawyers don't just give up during their careers. You work way to damn hard to pass the bar exam to give it up unless you have to. " Law license - do they have to be renewed occasionally? i mean, maybe they just dont care about that, how many former presidents go back to their "day jobs" after their terms are over? | ||
| Strokizator |
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by the election outcome. As has been pointed out, in a nation of children Santa Claus always wins. People simply voted for the party who offered them the most free stuff. The Sandra Flukes of the country want free birth control pills, and free abortions should they not work,so that someone else can be responsible for their behavior. Young college age people want to live at home and get on their parents' health insurance plan so they can postpone growing up for as long as possible. Gotta have my free "Obama-phone". Take from someone else and give it to me simply because I don't have it and I have a right to it. On Tuesday America stopped being "the land of the free" and became "the land of the free stuff". So sad. | ||
| Xb9er |
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/transcript/b ill-oreilly-separating-fact-myth-regarding-preside nt-obama The presidents license is also inactive. -in response to sifo's photo- | ||
| Cataract2 |
You seem to think that the GOP should move to the left to get votes. It really doesn't matter. If America votes left I would rather the GOP go down in flames on the right with their integrity (I use that term loosely talking about politicians). Hey, if that's what you think I'm saying and you guys want to stick to your guns. Fine. You want to know what went wrong with this election. Just look in a mirror? All the GOP did was drive people away. Whoops. I mean, when Mitt was chosen I had a feeling the GOP screwed up. Add to the fact that you lost, what was it, 8 seats total and you guys are feeling the sting of the biggest b**** slap ever. Least you didn't totally lose the House. When the GOP got control back in the 90s it was based on conservative government. You failed then and got tossed out. You got back in again with the same promise of it in early 2000s. You got tossed out in the mid 2000s. You gained a bit in the midterm of 2008. What just happened this last time. Anyone seeing a repeating pattern. The GOP couldn't even get the Presidency this time. The GOPs message has been lost by their lack of following through and their extreme social views they want to push on everyone regardless of that persons beliefs. The GOP is dying. Flames are already coming out of that planes engine. | ||
| Sifo |
Law license - do they have to be renewed occasionally? i mean, maybe they just dont care about that, how many former presidents go back to their "day jobs" after their terms are over? Most politicians still keep their licenses. Bill and Hillary kept theirs. Well Bill lost his for lying in court during his Presidency, but he didn't give it up voluntarily. It's a badge that folks tend to want to keep, and you never know what the future may hold. There are many reasons to keep it active. Still I wouldn't be shocked if BO let it lapse after he became President. It was inactive before that though. It would have been a nice bit of "resume padding" back then for a guy with such a thin resume. Why Michelle's was also inactive at that point I also have no idea. Isn't she a modern progressive woman that thinks women should be out working? Why limit her choices when she decides to be a contributing member of society again. OK, that may not be likely. She didn't know BO would have been so successful back when the license was lost though. So why did they both lose their licenses? If it's perfectly innocent, then it's easy to explain away. If there's something that caused them to be taken away, then isn't that something that the people should have known about... 4 years ago? The reality is that most politicians are lawyers and keep their licenses active. This is unusual and the question should have been asked at some point. Great media we have vetting the politicians at this point.  Add to the fact that you lost, what was it, 8 seats total and you guys are feeling the sting of the biggest b**** slap ever. I'm not sure how to break this to you but... Most of America is getting the b***** slap. Assuming you are a hard working taxpayer, that means you. | ||
| Moxnix |
We either ever admitted to the Illinois bar. or just "registered?" |
