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Rick_a
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2018 - 07:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The giant meteor that kills us all is also a minor concern. We're statistically well overdue.
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2018 - 04:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yep, and Bruce Willis is getting old. : )

People don't get that meteor strike is not a probable thing, it's a certainty. Physics.

We don't have all the rocks big enough to be a danger located and tracked. We don't have the math to predict the movement for long periods. Jupiter's gravity constantly stirs the pot and sends asteroids into new orbits and comets plunging towards the Sun.

It's not a static Universe. Stuff moves, shifts, is deflected, and mostly isn't all that shiny or visible. The recent bolide in Russia could have exploded over Boston. No one saw it coming, and the Sky Watch folk are volunteers with very little funding, relying on amateur astronomers to notify them of objects.
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Zac4mac
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2018 - 10:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Still waiting for the poles to shift.
Way overdue.
Overnight or over a decade...or century.

What will it do to Van Allen?

Z
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2018 - 12:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



It's so bad, it's good. Loved it.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-605 4643/Brightest-Perseids-Meteor-Shower-revealed-stu nning-new-photos.html
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 09:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/08/utili ty_blaming_climate_change_not_its_fallen_power_lin es_for_california_wildfires.html

Wow.

I didn't know Climate Change made a company save money by cutting needed maintenance and thus killing nearly fifty people.

I would have pegged that on the dirty running dog capitalist greed merchants.

Or government subsidies & bad forest management laws, encouraging cost cutting & providing a tinder box for old wiring.

Of course, this is preemptively striking before the suits and charges of manslaughter reach the public eye. Without Climate Change, I have no doubt other equally realistic excuses would have been used. Like Fairies being careless with vapes they've stolen from hipster hikers. Or Aliens trying to use cow flatulence for booster stages.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://scibabe.com/2018/06/17/rawmilk/

The State of Pennsylvania cracked down on Amish farmers and, I could be wrong on this!, Shut down dairies that didn't homogenize the milk, even though it was Pasteurized.

The chocolate full fat unhomogenized milk from the now closed dairy near Butler PA was prized by the folk at the nearby camp ground, who looked forward to it each year. I remember reading the bottle, and "Pasteurized" was on there. It would separate if left in the cooler. Made awesome ice cream in an old fashioned hand cranked Johnson machine with ice & salt on hundred degree days. ( invited important guests for breakfast one day and served them pancakes, bananas Foster , & fresh ice cream..... In a medieval camp. ) ( I camp with talented people, although I did share in cranking out the ice cream )

Gone.... Victim of religious prejudice or lobbyists from Big Dairy.

But although it had a super short shelf life, it was safe, I was camp medic, and didn't want to deal with THAT kind of problem. Treating tent stake wounds on feet & heat stroke was enough.
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Ducbsa
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 06:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah, but we can get high!

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Garbage-from-W ashington-state-s-booming-pot-13155835.php
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Rick_a
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 09:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Central to southern California is a big tinder box. Fires happen...and if not handled promptly will cover large swaths of land quickly.

I've come to the conclusion that "liberals," as they are known today, ruin literally everything. It at least makes for good entertainment and real comedy.
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 10:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

California law forbids you to clear brush. Dead trees, over growth of fast drying tumbleweed type plants, mesquite, all accumulate and make the fires worse each year.

It's not Global Warming, it's Busybody attitudes. The State as Religion and the Politicians as High Priests.

Bad enough If the busybody actually has a clue what they interfere with. Almost all Lawyers, they layer law upon law until no one is innocent.

It sounds past insane, but today, every adult is breaking the law, State or Federal. If a Persecuter wants to screw you, you are guilty. Tax code, ecology codes, somewhere, when every possible action or inaction is illegal, everyone is subject to the whims of the Very Criminal Justice System.

Did you record how much Round-up you used last year? Own a forbidden plant? Cross State lines with prescription medications? Live in New York after the Governor told those who did not agree with everything he holds dear, to leave?

Not only don't you know what you are guilty of, you aren't supposed to.

Golly dang, I wish that was paranoia.

Ask a guy who had his car stolen by police because they said they smelled pot, so used War on Drugs rules to confiscate the dealer's profits in the form of the easiest sold item. And you have to use THEM and prove your innocence, of a crime you were never charged with. They steal houses, too. Oddly, always from people too poor to fight back.

Now put lawyers in charge of forest management, people die.

More will die next year. The fires will be bigger and more destructive.

Bet you a Bison steak dinner.
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Airbozo
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 11:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"California law forbids you to clear brush. Dead trees, over growth of fast drying tumbleweed type plants, mesquite, all accumulate and make the fires worse each year."

I've had several conversations with our local Fire Chief over the last ten years or so and he assures me this is total hogwash when it comes to inhabited areas. In fact California state law specifically requires you to clear the brush and dead trees 100 feet from your house and they are able to issue citations for NOT doing so (applicable to fire prone areas). I am the Road Association President and I do walkthrough's with our local firefighters (all volunteer department) once a year to make sure our community is clear of any brush and debris that might cause or fuel a fire.

Up in Tahoe (the California side), the fire department routinely perform brush removal and cleanup. You can see them working on the side of the road most of the year.

Most of the law people are talking about refers to protected environments where endangered species live. If anyone has issues getting permits to perform cleanups, all they have to do is contact their local fire department because they are the final authority when it comes to fire dangers (in almost all cases). This is what I have been told by the fire chief, fish and game, and the county inspectors. There are exceptions and some people do get tied up in the bureaucracy when all they have to do is get the fire department involved.
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Airbozo
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

...as a side note,

On the radio this morning, they were interviewing a local resident of Lake County (where the big fires have burned for the last several years) and he said that every year for the last 7 years they have had to evacuate due to fires and by his and his neighbors estimate, they have 3 more years before enough of the area is burned and they will be safe from fires for a long time.

He was kind of amused by it as he sat in the shelter trying to figure out where to go next.
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll take your word for it in "inhabited areas". It's been a few years since I was there, and even longer when I was flying & camping in the White & Inyo mountains, where they told me not to touch any brush under pain of whatever.

This was from a Park Ranger who was ( properly ) bothered by us drinking hot cocoa and foil pack meals in a "don't even think about campfires" area. I showed him my exhaust manifold wire racks for meals & boiling water in old GI canteens I built into my van. Load up dinner, & drive to your sleeping spot. Hot meals.

"Leave Nothing but footprints" takes on new meaning when you are soaring down the valley. A few back there, a few down here, fleeting shadows between.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2018 - 07:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/1 5/delingpole-hothouse-earth-the-alarmists-latest-e xcuse-for-eco-fascist-global-governance/

Next time a Greenie declares to you we need to go on a wartime footing to combat the Climate, ask him if he wants to give Donald Trump Absolute Power?

Or just himself?
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2018 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My understanding, which may be incomplete, is that the problem doesn't lie so much in the "inhabited" areas, where brush and dead trees get maintained. The problem lies in the wilderness areas, where it's become taboo to mess with "nature", even the dead and dying brush and trees. Unless of course, we are messing with nature by putting out forest fires. Eventually, you wind up with large amounts of unburned fuel lying on the forest floor. Now when that gets sparked off, you have a real problem and it rages out of control with such fury that it isn't contained by the fire breaks, etc. Suddenly the protections built into the inhabited areas are not as effective as they would be with a less violent forest fire. Well, not really suddenly. It's taken decades of forest management to get it like this.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2018 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's my understanding too.

Seasonal winds, dry, hot, off the deserts to the East of the LA area, dry the plants & set up the fires. This is the ecosystem since Terror Birds ate many of the few humans wandering into the region. Several species of plants use the fires to reproduce.

For humans, big cities are as artificial an environment as a space station. Without extensive infrastructure to hold, & deliver water, the population is unsustainable. Unfortunately, the planned water works stopped being built soon after the rich folk in places like San Francisco got their systems in place, so every extra body that moves there overloads the water works. But the Rich, who already have, resist spending to provide for all. Greed, Greenies, and short sighted self interest, are the Enemies of progress.

California needs many more reservoirs, more pipes & canals, and, sooner than later, nuclear desalination plants to feed the coastal cities.

Artificial environments are highly vulnerable to deliberate attack. A few tons of explosives, properly placed, would render LA area water works useless. ( by cutting the supply far from civilization )

Cold heartedly, that would only speed up the rolling disaster being created by California State government, but the possibilities for mass destruction and death tolls has to be intriguing some really evil folk.
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Airbozo
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2018 - 06:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sifo,

Yes you are correct. But the difference between inhabited areas and forest is a mere 100 feet. Some of the fires raging in NorCal are near inhabited areas and spread fast because it is dry and some forested areas are kept "natural" to protect the wildlife that use the dead and dying brush for shelter or the thought that there should be natural carbon transfer due to rotting. Some people forget that the transfer happens faster when it burns and from my limited understanding dumps the carbon where we don't want it.

So the end result is burned forests, houses, people and the very critters the huggers were trying to save.

Brilliant!

On a side note, the Lake county fire (over 1000 homes destroyed and at least 8 people dead) was started by sparks thrown up from a flat tire on a trailer being towed by an elderly couple.

They will be getting a bill from Cal Fire.

(Message edited by airbozo on August 16, 2018)
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a22749827 /spaghetti-physics-richard-feynman/?src=nl&mag=pop &list=nl_pnl_news&date=081718
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 11:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/a22714456/ x-59-supersonic-test-pilot-jim-less/?src=nl&mag=po p&list=nl_pnl_news&date=081718

The Long nose concept has been around for a Long time. There was talk of putting modern more powerful engines in the X-3 Stilleto some years back, to test this idea, but the decision was made not to, since the intake & stability technology has moved on since then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_X-3_Stiletto

Originally a machine meant to test the high thermal loads at supersonic speeds, and stubby trapezoidal wings ( used on the F-104 , and other planes ) the engines of the day just were not up to it. It did give valuable information on roll/yaw coupling, a killer problem as jet fuselages got longer and wings got shorter, which was a serious issue with America's first Supersonic ( in level flight ) fighter.

For a view of how quickly the technology changed, compare the F-100, First flight 1953, with the F8U, 1956, which used the same single engine but was faster, more maneuverable, and seriously stronger. ( to land on an Carrier )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_F-100 _Super_Sabre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F-8_Crusader

Which led to one of the greatest planes never purchased, the Crusader III.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_XF8U-3_Crusad er_III

The F8U-3 program was canceled with five aircraft built. Three aircraft flew during the test program, and, along with two other airframes, were transferred to NASA for atmospheric testing, as the Crusader III was capable of flying above 95% of the Earth's atmosphere. NASA pilots flying at NAS Patuxent River routinely intercepted and defeated U.S. Navy Phantom IIs in mock dogfights, until complaints from the Navy put an end to the harassment.

The new X-59 also uses technology not very different than the Republic XF-103, which also had a flush cockpit to reduce drag, & a Periscope to look ahead. The XF-103 can be thought of as the practice plane for the Blackbird, as it was a real learning experience in working with Titanium, and the engine turbo jet/ramjet combo idea would be refined, and somewhat improved for the SR-71. It's a bit of a pity they never flew the XF-103, as it would have been the fastest air breathing man carrying thing in the sky at the time, and we might have learned a lot from it. But the limited range and decision to use unmanned guided missiles for bomber intercept instead, put an end to the program. ( plus the Korean war ) Ironically, the guided missile defense system was never followed through on either, in any scale, so the default position of the US government of defending America against Nuclear bombers became, "we're all going to die, and there is nothing we can do about it because we don't want to spend the money".

I Imagine there's a more PC way to say it, but that's basically it.
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 09:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/08/when_ politicians_posture_patients_suffer.html

As someone who has suffered from chronic, daily, crippling pain for years, I can say that it is very important not to hurt millions just to pretend to save a few addicts.

I'm lucky. New titanium knees have relieved my constant pain... No knees, no pain. Now it's just the rest of the body hammered into dog meat by a lifetime of hard work. Let me know when they have bionic spines, please.

I don't casually do opiates. I'm an addictive guy, I know it, and I choose not to do alcohol and opiates unless really needed, like election night. ; )

I don't like opiates. But they are so much better than pain. And stupid politicians are causing millions unnecessary pain in the pursuit of good vibes and votes by focusing on physicians instead of the illegal drug trade.

How about they put MS-13 members in prison for selling unsafe drugs, instead. I won't cry when they get shanked.
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 06:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arrest-made-more-100-sy nthetic-pot-overdoses-park-211859789.html

Ignorant, stupid, misleading, dangerous, swear words escape me!

Where to start on this steaming pile?

First, these are not overdoses. These are toxic reactions to poison.

Second, "Synthetic Marijuana" is a lie. It's home made or mob lab designer drugs. Could be already banned as a poison, could be new last week and no law get written to restrict it. And no way to tell with idiot reporting/ editing using multiple names for poison used to get high to make evil men rich.

Marijuana has nothing to do with this stuff, whatever it is, other than illegal drug customer base.

Third, far from being educational, warning against toxic effects of unknown & unsafe crud made in a filthy garage, this tells of people that almost die and go back for more without making them seem like the suicidal loons they are.

They just advertised the product!

Arrrrgggghhhh!!!!!

Hey, I'm seriously Libertarian on recreational drug use. I used to think, "pot isn't too terrible, but Cocaine kills people so we should ease up on one, and crack down on the other". But close observation of illegal drug sales in the city, ( and ducking bullets from Scorpion machine pistols...... A distinctive sound ) show ed me I was wrong.

It's the profit motive of the black market and the corruption that creates, the government enforced monopolies of Mob business over private enterprise, dirty coos, etc. That is the core problem. The substance sold doesn't matter so much.

That said, the government has a role in busting folk selling drain cleaner or unknown poison as a public health issue.

Ignorant and bad reporting, sensationalism without content, does us all a disservice.
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Hootowl
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 07:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Where do you draw the line? Is heroin poison? How about PCP?
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 07:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Heroin is a pain killer.

Ironically, it was developed to be a less addictive replacement for Morphine. But the brave lab techs who tested it on themselves happened to have the gene complex that makes folk immune to opiate addiction, which seems to be associated with the kind of personality that does medical research! Total coincidence, but that statistical anomaly got the "safe" drug out into the literature, and into the wild. It's a really funny story if you are into Irony.

PCP is a tranquilizer.

Just the thing to have in your dart gun if your job is veterinarian to, say, Hippos. Or CNN anchors.

"Bath Salts" are a poison. Whatever stuff they are spraying on plants in the article above, is a poison.

Alcohol is a decent germ killer, and fairly easily made organic lamp fuel. Lets you run over 13 to one compression AND use a turbo if your fuel system is set up right. Also the most abused recreational drug in history as far as I know.

The argument about recreational drug use has more than one facet. I have some experience with the suffering of poorly written and thought out laws banning some, but not others. I worked in those neighborhoods where the big bucks was in drug sales, and the politics on WHY is a big discussion in itself.

It's the curse of western man. We ( European exploiters ) exported it to China, had a war because of it, are at war today with Mexico about it, the Taliban takes advantage of it, etc. etc.

My initial point was that ignorant and stupid sensationalism, doesn't help anyone.
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Hootowl
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How about crystal meth? Poison or recreational drug? Just trying to see where the line is for you. I draw my line on the other side of alcohol, an arguably dangerous drug that has destroyed many lives, but has been with humanity for time immemorial. Iím drinking a beer right now.

Chronic pain should be treated. Chronic pain. Breaking a bone should not lead to an opiate addiction. Prescribers and drug companies have done society a disservice.
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 09:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How about crystal meth? Poison or recreational drug? Wrong question. It's a useful drug if you want to not fall asleep at the wheel of the truck. There are better choices. They used to issue Dexedrine pills to pilots in the Air Force. Better the side effects, than crashing a B-52 into Chicago.

But the answer you seem to be looking for is
"poisonous recreational drug".

Would I ban it in my utopia where I wrote all the rules? I dunno. Make your case. I'm not set in stone on the subject. Haven't made up my mind. I really dislike the effects on people, but are the indirect effects of the existing ban worth it? I have more questions than answers.

The "Libertarian" approach is to legalize everything and let the chips fall where they may. I'm not sure I'm all onboard.

Breaking a bone should not lead to an opiate addiction. Prescribers and drug companies have done society a disservice. Yeah, and that's been true since the first doctors gave poppy juice. Lots of Veterans given Morphine got addicted after ( you name the war after the drug became available ) and it continues to this day.

But it looks like the real problem is illegal drug production and sales, not kids stealing from grandma's medicine cabinet.

However, that "But" & "real problem" is numbers addicted and statistical. The medicine cabinet thing does mess up some real folk. I've got a big jar of ( redacted ) in mine. I just don't use it anymore. But I might need it next week.

It's funny.

A buddy who also suffers from chronic pain, ( broke his hip as a teen, and they used old, bad, techniques that ruined the joint ) told me that when I got my new doctor, the very first words I had with her should be "I need to talk to you about pain management". I was skeptical.

But, what the heck?

So Those were the first words I spoke after Hello.

She gives me The Look. That, "great, I got a druggie wanting pills" look. As she looks over my charts in her laptop, I tell her the highlights of my medical history, Operation this, broken that, and she nods along, sorta disgusted, then Stops abruptly. Reads aloud "moderate to severe degenerative arthritis..." pulls up an X-ray. Says, "Damn". Then immediately writes me a script. We get along fine.

Last year I brought her a bag full of pill bottles, most with just one pill missing, and ask her what I should use, because I got 10 years of different docs giving me scripts for pain in ERs etc. and I don't know what's good, bad or safe anymore. She goes through it with some mutters, comments that "this one is illegal now", and "who the hell gave you this?" and straightened my pile out to a couple, with instructions. I'll do that again next year. I haven't had one from that shelf.

I have the bad habit, because I Do Not Like how opiates make me feel, of walking along in pain, promising myself I'll take a pill as soon as I get back to the Truck and my cooler full of water, bandaids, Advil, etc. Then when I sit down, it doesn't hurt so much, and I "forget" to take a pill. Drives the SO nuts.
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Hootowl
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 09:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fact is, most of the folks addicted to opiates these days got that way from prescription drugs. 27000 died last year in this country alone. You seem resigned to accept addiction and death as a side effect of pain management. I think they are overprescribed. Pain management doctors are beginning to realize that. Some believe that addiction is an acceptable and manageable option for some patients. Those are the patients who should be prescribed opiates long term, not acute pain sufferers. Certainly not to the tune of 27000 dead every year.
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

resigned? No.

Doubt that any laws will help? yeah.

Educating doctors & patients? Yes.

New & better therapies? Bring It On.

If you are a terminal patient, say, pretty good odds you won't live a year, then who cares if you can't kick an addiction? It doesn't matter.

I was kinda hoping to last a little longer, so, knowing I am easily addicted, I try and avoid, control, etc. My solutions are perhaps not yours.

A question. Did 27000 people die from overdoses? Or from suicide? Or is the group statistically likely to have 32000 deaths in the same time period?

It wasn't long ago that 27000 highways deaths would be a major improvement.

And I'm not sure that I can simply accept that most opiate addicts got that way from drugs prescribed for them. From Prescription drugs? maybe.

This is a subject a Lot of people will Lie to you about. I'm skeptical. There's BIG MONEY involved. Could be the liar is at Sandoz. Or a Cartel, or Congress.
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 10:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And, yeah, it's hard to have a rational discussion if the Other Guy doesn't accept your argument as any kind of fact. I'm not trying to be hard to get along with.....

But you do realize that the reason this thread got going was people lying through their teeth about science. And when the UN organization on the subject openly admit that the science isn't important, it's the Power? That Science Is Settled. ; )
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Hootowl
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Overdoses.

This topic fits perfectly in this thread. The drug companies lied about the science, or they didnít research the effects of the drugs adequately. They told doctors their new synthetic drugs werenít addictive, so the docs started handing them out like pez. 25 years later, here we are.

The Other Guy doesnít disagree with you about chronic pain sufferers. Those folks need what they need, and should not be cut off. Addiction, properly managed, is better than a life of pain.

Problem is, they get non-chronic pain sufferers addicted, then cut them off. Those addicts then turn to cheaper, more readily available drugs like heroin and fentanyl, or worse, heroin laced with fentanyl, unbeknownst to the victim, and wind up dead.
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 10:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounds about right.

Solution?
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Hootowl
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 11:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Itís a difficult problem. Stop overprescribing opioids, for a start. Docs are starting to come around to this way of thinking. Or so Iíve read.
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2018 - 12:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That makes a lot more sense than the trend towards making Doctor's lives miserable with excessive paperwork and threats of imprisonment.

It is often said that social movements are like a pendulum, it swings back & forth.

We, America, seems to have been headed towards blaming the Doctor for Organized Crime and making them reluctant to help people with pain. Or so I'm told by nurses and EMTs. ( the folk I regularly deal with )

As someone who might need pain meds with more umph than Advil, I am concerned that "not overprescribing" doesn't mean common sense.

On "the line" for Recreational drugs......

I like an Angry Orchard from time to time, but don't drink much or often.

I really dislike some drugs because of the effects on behavior.

Just to pick one, Cocaine & derivatives.

If there is a party, and there is a pile of pot on the table, the party will go on until everyone is asleep, except for a few hard core, who will be making deep philosophical comments while they roll joints. ( they think they are deep anyway )

Same deal, but with Booze, party goes on until everyone is passed out & there's a lot of vomit, maybe even a body in the corner. We'll assume no mean drunks, so no fights, and no one drives home. ( same for all examples )

party with a pile of Cocaine? The party will continue until the Cocaine is gone. Passed out people, check, bodies? maybe... but there won't be a grain of drug left.

With the booze & the pot, there is a point where the amount started with & number of people.... where there is stuff left over. Not Coke.

I've also heard of people snorting/smoking their student loans, after buying Coke with them, intending to make a profit, and have enough left over for a nice party.... but started before they got to the profit part, and consumed it All. ( from a reliable witness )

So my inclination is to keep Cocaine illegal..... but that very illegality is what makes it such a profitable business.

So... I dunno. At what point do I just leave it to Evolution? It's already too late for Janis & Jimmie & John.
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2018 - 05:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/17/k2 -spice-synthetic-marijuana-new-haven-green-overdos e

Better reporting on the new drug wave.
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2018 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a22 724787/parker-space-probe-sun-united-launch-allian ce-delta-heavy/?src=nl&mag=pop&list=nl_pnl_news&da te=081718
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