| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Alfau, would you prefer someone raised in the Islamic Madrasas, then as an adult followed the religion of "God damn America", or someone of the Mormon faith? I only ask because you are raising the question of faith. Personally I find the Mormon faith more compatible with the values of our country than Islam or the religion of "God damn America". Odds of getting a thoughtful answer on this is currently set at 100 to 1. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Didn't they voice similar concerns about Kennedy being Catholic and being controlled by Rome ie that his faith as president would be at the whim and cost of the nation as he pursued that ideology.....? I think the O shows more wreck to America under the Socialist, Communist, Anti Colonial, Pro Islamic tendencies but remember our subservience now makes it ok to be proud to be an amerikan | ||
| Ducxl |
Silly talk.For the first time EVER i may VERY well be voting for ("the O") a Democrat.I'll skip the why because of the atmosphere here. THey say Bill's speach got Obama re-elected last night. Sifo: you blaspheme with that quote in any context. (Message edited by ducxl on September 06, 2012) | ||
| Oldog |
Silly talk.For the first time EVER i may VERY well be voting for ("the O") a Democrat.I'll skip the why because of the atmosphere here. Please explain, what has Mr Obama acomplished that warrants re-election. Do you dislike Romney that much if so what and why I am curious... | ||
| Sifo |
I would be curious to hear Ducxl's reasoning too. Meanwhile some very scary entertainment from the DNC. They really think this way! | ||
| Ducxl |
I'll try with my low I.Q. and limited reasoning  . .......Naw,i tried.I just know it when i see it.The last 4 years have been the MOST profitable in my life.I DID make that happen,too. We need border control.Social Security we NEED too.Obamacare,maybe not.But it IS something.The welfare requirement of seeking employment is just and has not been eliminated,RIGHT? That last one IS fact isn't it? Mitt represents unadulterated GREED to me. GREED is not good.It is careless to it's FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZEN,IMHO. There...I DID try to explain.Carefully and so not to offend. | ||
| Sifo |
We need border control. Did you know border agents are actually suing the government for not letting them do their jobs? Social Security we NEED too. Perhaps. I tend to agree. Without serious reform, it won't be there though. In it's current form it will be a failure. This is simple mathematics. Obamacare,maybe not.But it IS something. Yes it is something. Talk to an employer about what it means to them. The welfare requirement of seeking employment is just and has not been eliminated,RIGHT? That last one IS fact isn't it? The work requirement has certainly been changed in a way that may lead to more fraud. Time will tell. If you open the door to fraud, it usually makes itself welcome though. Mitt represents unadulterated GREED to me. GREED is not good.It is careless to it's FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZEN,IMHO. OK. The last 4 years have been the MOST profitable in my life.I DID make that happen,too. Shame on you I guess? | ||
| Fb1 |
Ducxl, thanks for your reply. A couple of rebuttals for your consideration: We need border control Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's folks would certainly agree with you. You know how their son died, right? Mitt represents unadulterated GREED to me. It seems fair, considering your statement, to post the following here on the President 0 thread. Mr. Romney represents AMERICA to me:
(Message edited by jerry_haughton on September 06, 2012) | ||
| Sifo |
I'd like to add something. I understand that greed is seen as a bad thing. That's why I kind of tossed in the jab about making yourself more profitable. I assume the motivation for this however was greed. Greed combined with reasonable laws, reasonable taxes, and well thought out social programs works quite well. Greed also can lead to harmful taxation and social programs that are designed to fail, as it the case with the current Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid systems. I do appreciate your sharing your thoughts, but in my view, they need some explaining to get to where they begin to make sense to me. Who knows, you might be able to convince me or someone else that you have valid points. | ||
| Ducxl |
In my greed i provide real tangible products that my fellow American can use.THe kind of greed i abhor is the kind that feels justified in putting my fellow American laborer out of a job in order to maximise profits using things like Chinese labor.My employer should not be providing my healthcare.It eats his profits making us less competetive in the world market. We still need border control.I say because our systems are unfairly burdened by people who've not yet contributed their share. Really trying to have civil discussion. I believe in conservative ideals | ||
| Sifo |
THe kind of greed i abhor is the kind that feels justified in putting my fellow American laborer out of a job in order to maximise profits using things like Chinese labor. It's a fact of life when you have competition in producing anything. Romney was involved in a company that tended to buy companies that were on the rocks and trim them to become profitable again. Not all were successful, but those that were continued to provide jobs, as well as tax revenue. Is that better or worse than just letting them go out of business? Is that better or worse than having the government step in as they did with GM? The simple reality is that there will be things that are better outsourced. By recognizing that you become more competitive and can provide better work/pay for those that you employ and provide better, more cost effective goods and services to consumers. This has been going on since the beginning of history. My employer should not be providing my healthcare. Maybe yes, maybe no. It should be between the employer and employee to figure out though. You do understand that Obamacare has just mandated that many employers do exactly what you just said they should not do? I'm unclear how this helps to explain your support of BO. We still need border control.I say because our systems are unfairly burdened by people who've not yet contributed their share. On this we agree. Again, I don't see where BO is the best choice on this issue. IMO, far from the best choice. Really trying to have civil discussion. I hope you see my input as part of a civil discussion. I believe in conservative ideals I believe you do. Are you sure you really want to vote for BO? | ||
| Ducxl |
I'm NOT sure. In my state i'll NOT vote the incumbent Dem David (Sissy)Cicilline,instead i'll definately vote the Republican Col. Brendan Doherty.And my Governor,Licoln Chaffee(now an I) is a gutless turd. Handing the presidency to Wall st. is not the answer.That got us Morgan Stanley,Enron,and AIG debacles.Open the door to fraud...what? And...Unions are part of the problem with their "screw you..PAY me" mentality (Message edited by ducxl on September 06, 2012) | ||
| Fb1 |
Handing the presidency to Wall st. is not the answer.That got us Morgan Stanley,Enron,and AIG debacles.Open the door to fraud...what? With all due respect, your opinion of Mr. Romney sounds like it's been contaminated by left-wing talking points. Mr. Romney is, by all FAIR accounts, an honorable and decent man, a true Patriot, who believes in the vision of the Founders, and who espouses a smaller federal government and more power returned back to the individual states. As it is written in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Yes, my opinion is coming from the conservative right; I'm not trying to hide that. With that said, be fair to the guy: Study his record in life, business and politics (and by study I don't mean simply listen to left-wing talking points; use the internet - while you still can - and guide your OWN search for the truth). Study-up on the man, and if you still feel like he's wrong for America, I respect your right to vote for someone else. But at least give the guy a fair chance. We didn't vet Senator 0 in 2008, and we've paid dearly as a result. He's been vetted fully by now, however, and he is NOT who he says he is. Yep, that's just one man's opinion, but based on a LOT of research. Best, Ferris | ||
| Oldog |
Thanks for the Reply Duc Odd by your own list, SS, medicare , border, (you missed the spiraling debit.) These are not done and you don't agree with Obama care I lost my health ins ( went up 100% in 3 yrs and the co dropped it as a benny) It now costs me over 400$ per month and its not very good. Employers buying health care ( groups of say 10 or more, means that they can get better rates and insurance for older folks like me. Also consider that it is a benefit I know that I will look at if job hunting... I agree with you to a point about greed. do some checking on the prez Solyndra was about greed he is clearly implicated as are several highranking government officials and the principals of the co they were big donators to his campaign. Ferris mentioned the border and the coverup of F&F by his appointee, with Greed goes corruption. We need leaders who have servants hearts again look at the direction he is going with the social programs look at the socialist countries that have failed or are failing.. | ||
| Sifo |
Handing the presidency to Wall st. is not the answer.That got us Morgan Stanley,Enron,and AIG debacles.Open the door to fraud...what? That almost sounds like condemnation of the capitalist system. I would point out the positives of capitalism. There are too many great companies doing good things for us, providing jobs, benefits, tax revenues, and new innovations, many of which make our lives easier, or even possible in many cases. No it's not a perfect system. None are. To me this is the best overall system by far, and the only system that meshes with our Constitution. Unfortunately, there is little that can be done to prevent companies from getting involved in scandalous activities; In any system. Romney has a keen sense of how business works in our system. I don't think that can be said of BO. BO comes from a background of threatening companies to comply with their wishes as a community organizer. That doesn't work well when you are supposed to be a leader. Romney by contrast has his background not only in business, but also a proven track record as Governor of his state. A liberal state where working compromise was the only way to get things done as a Republican. BO has a track record in politics of mostly voting present, but as leader, he has shown himself to be completely uncompromising. If you really find him to best represent your conservative ideals, perhaps you would do well to reassess where you stand in the political landscape. I don't mean that to be a jab at you, but he was rated the most liberal Senator of his time, and has stayed quite true to his ideals as President. Thankfully he has been way to inflexible to get much done to further his agenda, baring health insurance reform. Please note that actual health care still has not been addressed. Thanks for the discussion! | ||
| Strokizator |
You know, I’m getting tired of this whole corporate greed $hit. It wasn’t corporate greed and the pursuit of higher and higher profits that shifted factories overseas as much as it is consumer greed that demanded cheaper and cheaper prices. If consumers see two identical-looking widgits in a store they will buy the cheaper one, regardless if one says Made in USA and the other is stamped CHINA in big bold letters (a small percentage will buy the USA because experience has told them it is a better product). Consumers at Walmart demanded lower prices. Walmart in turn demanded price concessions from their suppliers. If you’re manufacturing Tupperware containers at a 10% profit and Walmart demands you cut your prices by 15%, what are you going to do when dropping your prices means a slow painful death? The suppliers of your raw materials can’t help. Hell, oil prices are up not down. Labor is disinterested - heck they already believe that if you report an operating loss that you’re just lying; I mean, everybody knows that you’re making money and that upper management is overpaid and it’s just BS because we’re the ones who do all the work around here while they get the big bonuses. Ultimately when your company refuses the price cut then Walmart simply drops your brand and brings in a cheap Chinese knock-off which is eagerly snapped up by consumers who couldn’t care less where it comes from. Your factory closes anyway. It’s misguided govt agencies that have made it more and more difficult to produce anything here. In my industry, all brass and iron casting is now done overseas because of environmental regulations. The finish machining and assembling is done here so the product can still carry the Made in USA label. More and more regulations are added each year which serve as a disincentive to keep jobs here. Pretty soon it will be like France where I can’t fire anybody no matter how valid the reason. When my competitors were using the cheapest crap they could find, I fought the trend and used Allied Pipe made in the USA (the coil still comes from overseas). I bought couplings and fittings from Victaulic in Pennsylvania, sprinkler heads from Viking in Michigan and Reliable in New York. Quality stuff. Guess what? The consumer doesn’t give a damn, they want the cheapest price. My overhead is already low. I own the building and often times the company gets by rent free. I don’t expect the employees to take a hit so I’m left with buying the overseas stuff. Yet somehow I’m the greedy bastard. I’ll NOT be voting for Obama. | ||
| Sifo |
Yikes! I just saw this on the borders issue. They are actually having an illegal alien who's deportation was halted by BO's policies speak at the DNC! http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/5/you ng-face-put-on-illegal-migration/ | ||
| Fb1 |
I note that both Axelrod and Jarrett were before the media today, trying to put out the flames from last night's fiasco re the last-second DNC platform amendments (which failed to pass...yet...were passed anyway...exactly as scripted on the teleprompter...). Must be a HUGE problem for the dems to trot out both of these heavy-hitters at the same time. Jarrett started to stammer and stutter in her reply, and Alexrod - spin-guru that he is; I'll give him that much - took charge and toe'd (TOAD?) the party line. He said what he said with a straight face. As did DWS last night. Repeatedly. Word for word. Amazing story-tellers, these folks. I bet they get paid well. I read this afternoon the heat from last night is so intense that the Big Guy himself will address the matter tonight during his sermon... | ||
| Fb1 |
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| Reepicheep |
Fair concern and fair criticism. It can be rationally argued that the deregulation of those industries lead to some very dangerous behaviors that came back to bite us. But also consider the other side of the coin. A progressive activist intervention by Barney Frank (hard core Democrat and progressive) in a federally run banking program (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) lead to an even worse disaster. Politically motivated manipulation of their lending practices created a huge risk (forced lending to people who clearly couldn't afford the houses they were getting). Then, when auditors did come in and start sounding alarms, Barney Frank read the auditor the riot act and used the force of the federal government to silence critics, all while he had a romantic relationship with an employee of one of the firms under investigation. So both wall street and the Fed had serious transparency problems relating to their risk, the one run by the federal government was by far the worst, as the government was hiding the problem and stifling criticism. At least with Citibank and Morgan Stanly, you could call attention to their malpractices without being crucified before congress. So while you have correctly identified a real problem, I think your solution (vote Democrat) is a less than optimal solution. Greed isn't the problem, a fair playing field with consistent rules and reasonable transparency is the problem. And socializing the risk but privatizing the profits is the *worst* problem, and that's an (IMHO) standard Democrat party model. | ||
| Oldog |
Axlerod and co are out to win at all odds break the law, bully, threaten,etc. If you dont like the answer change it http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/06/emails- suggest-axelrod-leaned-on-gallup-after-unfavorable -poll/ Their answer to every thing misuse their position / power. I WILL SEE YOU AT THE POLES MR OBAMA. Time to put them back under the rock... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Guys, I keep bringing this up and the point keeps getting lost. NONE of the subprime mortgages that were originated could have been bundled and sold on the mortgage backed securities secondary market WITHOUT the secondary guarantees of Freddy and Fanny. Freddy and Fanny knew what they were getting, but were willing to continue secondarily guaranteeing these mortgages in order to keep the lending capacity open. More regulation would have done NOTHING to prevent this. Banks weren't "greedy". They were doing what all businesses do, take advantage of opportunities in the marketplace. If you could originate loans with little to no underwriting and be GUARANTEED to be able to sell those mortgages in the secondary market with the full faith and credit of the Federal government, wouldn't you? Once the mortgage is sold, all banks wash their hands of it, take the sale proceeds, and roll out another tranche of loans. Where the house of cards fell was when the Federal government defaulted on these loans. Once that happened, the market was unable to value the market worth of these securities. Since no one is willing to buy a "pig in a poke", these securities were in essence untradeable. CRA is at the rotten core of this mess. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
When these adults choose to stay illegally in the United States in defiance of federal law, they are defying our country’s laws. Now the DNC is cheering them on.” I believe there is a fair solution, but like most kids these days... they just do not have the patience for it, they just want it now and just giving amnesty away (or anything similar) is not fair to those who became citizens the correct/hard way. But...then again..times change too. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It was worse than that Jeremy... a family member was a VP at a small town bank during that period (before the crap hit the fan). I was visiting them and they went off on a rant about how they are being forced to give out loans that they knew people would not be able to afford to pay, or else they would be in legal trouble. My impression at the time (I don't know the facts first hand) was that they weren't legally allowed to tell people how much financial jeopardy they were putting themselves in. It was a small town community bank... they can't compete on price, so they compete on service and relationship, often through several generations. Telling that bank that they couldn't help people understand potential financial mistakes was undermining their whole "bank, community and families live and thrive together" business model. It really screwed them up. You are right, without Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac (federally subsidized and mandated corporations) promising to buy all those terrible loans, nobody would have given them except at a really high interest rate (high risk for high return). Anyway, if corporate greed is the problem, government greed is about the only way to make it worse. Just look at history. You are trading a banking crises problem for genocide problem.  | ||
| Chauly |
Here's a current summary of why banks aren't lending: http://www.pimco.com/EN/Insights/Pages/The-Lending -Lindy.aspx | ||
| Fb1 |
Instant. Classic.
Bravo, Mr. Fleming. Bravo. | ||
| Sifo |
I was visiting them and they went off on a rant about how they are being forced to give out loans that they knew people would not be able to afford to pay, or else they would be in legal trouble. That's exactly right. Freddie and Fannie set the parameter that must be met for a customer to get the loan. If they qualify, you are obligated to offer them the loan. If they don't qualify, and they ask, you are required to tell them exactly what keeps them from qualifying. My impression at the time (I don't know the facts first hand) was that they weren't legally allowed to tell people how much financial jeopardy they were putting themselves in. Correct again. To even suggest they might want to consider something "more affordable" could get you in trouble with the feds. I was a Loan Officer for a home mortgage bank from '03 - '05. We saw the train wreck coming and there was nothing that could be done to stop it. | ||
| Court |
Interesting and enlightening discussion. A couple comments, not criticisms. >>>Mitt represents unadulterated GREED to me. I have to say that I have a tough time with that one. He inherited a LOT of money and gave EVERY dime of it away. He now makes a LOT of money and routinely gives 10% to his church. In terms of creating "things" . . he created a LOT of jobs. When a number of companies were headed for the graveyard, Staples, always gets mentioned, he was a key player in saving and building the company. He's been behind the creation of thousands of jobs. The criticism about Wall Street is not without merit. Those firms you mentioned, as I am sure you are aware, are Barack Obama's largest donors and supporters. That is also where MOST of the folks in his staff came from who are involved in anything financial. Barack Obama is beholden, lock, stock and barrel to Wall Street as his wife, Michelle, was to Valerie Jarrett . . . who gave her that nice fat $300,000 raise. | ||
| Reindog |
The cool thing I like about DucX1 over the years is that he listens and is not afraid to learn and change. I don't have a lot to contribute but Wall Street has also made Apple, Qualcomm, and thousands of really great companies possible. It is not without warts but keep the perspective that both Partys suck on the teat. Vote for 0 if you must be do so with knowledge and conviction. | ||
| Ducxl |
Thanks guys'.that was a fun discussion.I also stand corrected on most all accounts,yep. I said I "might" have ended up voting BO. My wife and I watch BOTH Fox and LATELY MSNBC for counterpoint.it is funny(sad?) The spin they BOTH weave to meet their agenda. I've never voted a Dem.just saying the spin is ugly And makes me CONSIDER the BO vote |
