| Author | Message | ||
     Bob_thompson |
Can someone accurately explain the ride by wire to me. I understand it in military aircraft and its ability for the aircrafts computer to help a pilot do various things, (as in the hands off while leaving a carrier), while the computer interacts and helps when he's too busy shooting or acquiring targets. But the pilot, in many cases can overide it I do believe. But exactly what does it do for bike riders/racers. I would think, when you want full throttle you could get it providing the traction control doesn't interact. Also would any race bike want to have these usually three different settings for H.P. such as street, wet, race mode as many bikes now have. Maybe too much taken away from the riders/racers hands and HIS ability to control things. Do we want robot riders? | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Sensor on twist grip is translated to stepper motor on throttles and depending on various data available and programming gives you the most power is the smoothest fashion possible. | ||
| J2blue |
As I understand it, throttle by wire provides for non-linear response in order to maximize engine speed and air/fuel characteristics to the riding conditions. A throttle by cable can only provide a linear response to engine speed which in many situations isn't optimum. I read this in a mag article recently, but don't remember where. Seems like most of MotoGP are already using it and probably some WSBK. I would welcome it from a pure performance point of view. But it isn't the same as traction control or a multi-map ECM. I don't think it takes anything away from the rider, only adds to what the rider already provides. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I imagine throttle-by-wire would also simplify and/or improve the implementation of traction control. Otherwise, they can only reduce engine power by retarding or cutting the ignition. | ||
| Sifo |
It isn't the same as traction control, but it can be utilized by traction control. Rather than crudely limiting power by causing a misfire, the traction control can simply reduce power by closing the throttle, regardless of rider input. There's a lot of very cool things that can be done with fly by wire systems. Many of them will mean more to street bikes than race bikes. Both can be benefit from it though. | ||
| Fast1075 |
The upper limit on power in a normally aspirated motor is limited as Boogiman brings up by piston speed and pumping efficiency. Being limited in RPM and valve size you maximize the efficiency with camshaft and tract tuning, fuel and timing. Valve lift is limited to "stock" lift. Duration, ramp rate, lobe profile and overlap are completely tunable. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I'm thinking square pistons. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Octagon....  Seriously,..this thread rocks. I can't wait to see this engine evolve and watch this company develop and grow. Go EBR! 1190 ... play that number! | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
There was a serious attempt at oval pistons around 30yrs ago...they're all still round | ||
| Court |
>>>There was a serious attempt at oval pistons around 30yrs ago...they're all still round Honda NR-750  | ||
| Sifo |
I remember when that was going to revolutionize racing. | ||
| Court |
I knew nothing about it technically . . . but it was one of my first encounters with the out of the box concept. The guy who's done a lot of the 1190RS race motor development is about my age . I think a lot of us learned . . . | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I forgot what was the achille's heel of the oval pistons? **no desire to use the googles Knew someone would bring up the NR750. | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
I believe the problems with the NR 750 was the piston weight, drivetrain weight (8 valves per cylinder), expense to make parts...and for overall package the engine was very "peaky" in power the 750 could do around 15k rpm for street and a racer 500 could do upwards of 20k rpm...that would be something else! To be honest...with Erik and the Elves track records....expect something different, innovative, efficient, and mind blowingly effective! I am EXCITED!!! ....I'm looking forward to in a few years to pick me up a new EBR, especially since my 1125r should be payed off this year  to quote a wise, insightful, and stubbornly vague at times man... "Exciting times..." Jake | ||
| Fast1075 |
The NR was an attempt at getting around the rules that disallowed V-8 configuration. I had some interesting conversations with our Honda Tech Rep. Never worked out though. In the paddock, it was referred to by many as the Not Ready  | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
yes fast it was sorta. they were trying to beat the 2-cyc engines still dominating motogp with a 4-cyc. the original NR was 500cc developed from the late 70's through the early 80's. the NR750 was a street bike they made 300 of in the early 90's at a cost of $50k a pop! really fascinating concept 2 rods per jug...8 valves per cyl some really cool stuff. | ||
| Hughlysses |
For sheer mechanical funk, the NR takes the prize. OTOH- the cylinders, pistons, and rings must have been an utter nightmare to machine back then in the days before CNC was around. I wonder how well those long, straight sections of piston ring sealed down the front and back of the pistons? | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Boogiman1981: "There was a serious attempt at oval pistons around 30yrs ago...they're all still round" I believe that is very true as I understand it, even in a stock "forged" piston, as they are machined slightly oval, maybe a thousanth or so because they grow considerably more then cast pistons and grow differently between the piston pin area and 90 degrees from that. When heated to running temps. they become completely round. I found this true when I ran Venolia forged pistons in my turboed BMW boxer at Bonneville. NICE engineering! The pistons that is.  (Message edited by Bob_thompson on June 06, 2012) | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
yes Bob pistons do grow at inconsistent rates due to a number of variables and for all practical purposes they are 'round' it is very interesting that even though round there is a little more to it than that. also makes me wonder with an air cooled engine vs water cooled how much difference there would need to be on otherwise dimensionally similar pistons. Honda actually has a great write up on their site about the NR division and the highlights/lowlights of the 500 motogp with oval pistons. yeah getting them to be consistent and actually seal was a big challenge that they did overcome. the article stated at one point that the true demise of the 500 and the short life of the 750 wasn't the engine per se it was they were changing to much at once. i can't help but wonder if Erik and the elves may be suffering the same fate. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1979pisto nengine/index.html | ||
| Reepicheep |
Huh? To quote Dave Gess, "from dead to podium in under two years". And it wasn't an anomaly either. Look at the season standings. Geoff and Danny have very solid positions. Even for the old Harley owned Buell... what were the two things that went the most wrong? The Engine, and the dealer network. You know, the two most established and least changed things that were part of their business. EBR is exactly what an American business needs to be... like a shark. Move forward aggressively, or die. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
i was clear and meant exactly what i said. i am hoping that my concern is wrong but it is a concern that has come from hands on experience with their product. i truly wish and hope for success for Erik and his elves hell i wish i could be one of them but alas i am not an engineer on paper.... | ||
| Court |
You may rest assured that there are folks, engineers on paper, and racers, mechanics and technicians at heart, who well understand the motor they designed in concert with Rotax. Racing has provided a great deal of data, data that is both predictable and very well understood. The motor is well understood both in terms of what it is and what it can be. Erik and The Elves are going to be very successful. The things they've accomplished in the past 30 months are nothing short of incredible. 5 Years ago a Buell in an AMA was an anomaly, interesting and folks wished the Buell folks good luck. Luck wasn't enough, it took Elves like Jon, Laurie and Gary. Today an EBR in a race is a threat and a revered competitor. The 1190RS is amassing a most impressive, in the 10 months since it debuted at Mid-Ohio in 2011, record with the promise of lots more to come. Be mindful that Buell, just this last weekend, beat MOST the bikes in the race. The same folks who used to find the product interesting are now looking over their shoulder. One of the bits of wisdom I've acquired over the years . . . . mostly while learning to land airplanes smoothly . . . is never to navigate using a narrow field, look at the big picture. The EBR bikes, are being pushed into new performance environments with each successive race. Daytona, with both bikes going "poof" provided incredible, and previously unobtainable, data. We live in most interesting times. Ask anybody in the paddocks and the question is not "if" and EBR will win . . it's simply when and what the others do when they get this thing dialed in. A rising boat will take all boats. Court P.S. - I am also REALLY enjoying watching all these guys ride this year . . . . .regardless of what technology they may be be benefiting from there are some of the most incredibly talented riders to ever toss a leg over a motorcycle. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I totally agree Court on all points but my inquisitive mind keeps asking me how they will eventually win, strickly from a technological point of view. Too much gearhead in me I guess. And I love your P.S. Its HAS been some of the best racing in AMA I have seen for a long time. Way better then what I see on TV from WorldSB and MotoGP. All AMA classes are extremely competitive and to see what Erik and the Elves have done in a short time is phenomenal. Good, scratch that, great times are ahead. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It is amazing racing. I generally DVR it, and if I get up to get something to eat when I come back and rewind to see what I missed (even when an EBR is not in front). | ||
| Husky |
If EBR hasn't already done so they might contact these folks regarding valve springs! http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/vintage- speed/the-spring-that-revolutionized-nascar-664377 8 husky | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
maybe you take it on faith maybe you have more inside knowledge court you def have been around Erik and know him way better than i likely ever will that's for sure. i truly hope that he is even more successful than he has been which has been a lot because as everyone here is so quick to point out his from the ashes story. he has enjoyed a great deal of success as evident for most of his bikes finishing most of the races and placing formidably. i still know what i do and saw what i did and thus have a concern. i also wonder with Bob how they are going to catch Hayes or if the expectation for success this year is a 2nd 3rd finish kinda thing. it has been a lot of fun esp when i had the chance to get some skin in the game myself an experience that didn't slake my thirst one bit but rather poured hydrazine on it instead. nancy and i are currently planning for NOLA being the next time we are going to be at an AMA event this year a fact that literally has me depressed. as i don't think i've ever been happier in my life than i was when i was helping Shawn. allllll of that being said i wish Erik May and Slick the best of luck. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Boogiman1981, I reluctantly must agree, its going to be hard for anybody to catch Josh Hayes any time soon. With that said: #1, I will wait to see, knowing EBR's commitment, what they can bring to the table for the rest of the year and at the tracks that more favor what they already have. #2, two podiums in only the second year of the whole existence of EBR is outstanding. If the racing year ended now they would be a total success. And finally, like many have said, its only the beginning. They will; improvise, adjust and overcome. Semper fi. I'm happy for them and will continue to be proud to ride my #292 1125R anywhere with anybody, on any bike. Its that good for me. | ||
| Sparky |
I am extremely thankful and awestruck that EBR could take the time to provide us 1125 owners with the right stuff (oiling rotor exchange service) that not only fixes the stock bike's stator overheating problem but brings our bikes one step closer to 1190 specs [that's a reach I know, but you get my drift ]. | ||
| Davegess |
Getting from third to first is gonna be tough but then getting from dead to third was damn near impossible so I guess Erik will figure it out. He has come back from dead a few times, and it wasn't always the company that was dead! |
