| Author | Message | ||
     Crusty |
A question that I've got is what's the difference between a Lithium Iron battery and a Lithium Ion battery? I know that they're two different batteries, but that's all. Which one is better, cheaper, more dependable, etc.? I know that EBR is selling a lightweight battery. Is it as good as a Shorai? Cheaper? More CCAs? More durable? Please educate me. | ||
| Gunut75 |
Here's a decent explanation. http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/energy/news-e nvironmentally-rechargeable-lithium-iron-battery-b etter-lithium-ion-battery | ||
| Jaimec |
Just sounds like a liberal plot to destroy the lead-acid industry to me.  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Here is a fun chart to see too. Which do you suppose has more energy per mass: TNT, Diesel, Sugar? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#Common _energy_densities Fun stuff. (Look where the batteries are!) | ||
| Jaimec |
I used to power my bicycles with Subway Club Sandwiches! | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
That chart would make more sense if it included the weight of the necessary equipment to extract that energy along with the efficiency coef. Example a carburetted gas engine is less efficient than a turbocharged diesel engine. The battery may only produce a limited amount of power for it's mass, but it retains it's mass when it's energy is all gone. Other fuels burn that mass to provide the energy, so it's all rather misleading. And where's sunlight in all of that? It's effectively infinite in the energy to mass equation at ground level, but if you take into account the weight of the sun & the fact that most of the energy it gives off is just wasted into space, it's got to be about the worst. I need to invent something that's powered by statistics, I'd make a bundle. And when I need a fill all I'd have to do is push a few of Blake's buttons.  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Energy density in that chart is by storage medium, not type. "solar" is a type of radiation and as such, has no mass. One thing that irks me a very small amount is the chart doesn't take into account the mass of the Oxygen used. Simply put: If there was no atmosphere, how big would the Oxygen tank be for your Honda Civic-derived moon buggy? Batteries and capacitors are self-contained chemical reactions but when you go to fill your car with gas, you're only buying half the reagents needed. | ||
| Aesquire |
It's effectively infinite in the energy to mass equation at ground level Only if you are NOT counting the collector for the diffuse energy. Power per square meter, mass per square meter, you have to have those numbers. Then insolation value at a given place & time. Solar won't get you home a 2AM unless it's stored, or you are above(below) the Arctic (Antarctic) Circle near Solstice. And it's not even infinite over time. It's X# of watts per square whatever. And that number is probably peak........ You could always mount a windmill on the car...... | ||
| Aesquire |
If you mean the Sun itself.... Yes, there certainly is a mass issue. Easier to go with an Orion type drive and keep the giant fusion explosions down to mearly monumental scale. Your moon honda's O2 tank depends on if you are using cryogenics or not. You'd calculate the amount by using the fuel/O2 ratio, then figure the density, and required tankage. Easy enough to do a napkin calculation......... | ||
| Crusty |
So; is the battery for a moon Honda made by Shorai? If so, would an EBR battery be as good? Would it be cheaper, or cost more? Who else makes Lithium Iron batteries? How does a gel or AGM battery compare? Which has a longer life? Are LiFe batteries more fragile or delicate? How about cold weather performance? Will they crank just well when the temperatures fall below freezing? They seem to cost twice as much as a conventional battery. Are they twice as good? | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
They seem to cost twice as much as a conventional battery. Are they twice as good? An interesting question. Which begs the question is ANYTHING that's twice as expensive twice as good? On a logical scale of things you'd think so, but based on my limited experience of ladies of negociable virtue, I think, on the whole, not! To be serious, for the amount of actual use one my batteries gets, it's probably not worth it to me. My bike batteries tend to die of old age rather than being worn out. | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm waiting for the Carbon Nanotube Capacitors to boost energy density. Obviously the best storage density is in Antimatter, but we don't have a way to carry that around in a car....( or DO we??? ) The mass of a lightweight Fission Reactor, several tons & turbines, etc. makes it impractical for use in a car, ( at this time ) but you COULD use reactor waste to boil water and run a steam engine with comparable power and mass as a stock 70's Chevy 350 V8. ( Williams Steam cars and Dumbo style heat exchangers from the Space Program....) You woundn't mind a car that ran 40+ years on a fill up, would you? ( A VERY green Idea if you ask me... ) | ||
| Froggy |
The EBR battery is actually superior to the Shorai, due to the load balancing circuitry. the Shorai lacks an onboard battery management system, and that will result it in having a shorter service life and it is more likely to fail. One Uly owner even had a Shorai explode on their bike. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
who did? pics? painting with a broad brush froggy. the tech is different between the two batteries | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphat e_battery hardly a perfect ref however it's def not biased for or against either company |
