| Author | Message | ||
     Boney95 |
Naive question here. Matched up, MotoGP riders are the cream of the crop. Stoner would absolutely murder AMA, many others would also. GP bikes are more superior. These are my thoughts and opinion's. Am I off? | ||
| Jumbo_petite |
I would love to see Eslick and May on a GP bike, but the two series are apples and oranges | ||
| Boney95 |
There's no AMA derived, MotoGP derived. | ||
| Xb9er |
I don't feel as if the moto gp riders are any better than ama riders. put any full time ama rider on a moto gp bike and I feel they could hang with all the gp riders. just my opinion. | ||
| Jaimec |
XB9er... I guess you haven't been paying attention to the Wild Card rides AMA SBK riders have gotten at Laguna Seca and Indianapolis. With the exception of Ben Spies and (more recently) Josh Hayes, none have been much more than places on the grid. And they were all so far behind "The Aliens" (Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa) that it was like there were two races... the aforementioned three, and everybody else (of course, pre-Ducati, Rossi would've been up there too). | ||
| Jaimec |
As for MotoGP vs. Superbikes in general, just look at how the ex-MotoGP guys are doing in WSBK, DESPITE their ages. Max Biaggi and Carlos Checa are "ancient" by most racing standards, yet the two of them have been dominating WSBK for the past few years. Marco Melandri, who was barely keeping pace with the rest of the riders in MotoGP,is a consistent podium winner in WSBK. On the flip side, Ben Spies, Nicky Hayden and Troy Bayliss are the ONLY Superbike-based riders to win races in MotoGP in the past decade. Colin Edwards II, a legend in WSBK, never won a race in MotoGP (though he's stood on the podium a couple of times). James Toseland, another WSBK multi-champion, as far as I can remember never stood on the MotoGP podium at all. | ||
| Bads1 |
Jaime you have that in a nutshell!! | ||
| Strokizator |
Right you are, Jaime. I was at the Laguna Seca race in 2007(?) where Miguel Duhamel (32 AMA Superbike wins) was riding for Tony Elias. Just a few laps into the race, he pulled into the pits and couldn't get off the bike fast enough. He clearly had "seen the elephant" and seemed happy just to be alive. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Yep, Jaime is right on. Americans haven't done great in MotoGP since the really dialed traction control era came on. Americans did better when tires were spinning all the time and it took some muscle and dirt experience to do well. Spies is the best recent example of dominating AMA, dominating WSBK, then working his ass off to keep up in MotoGP. | ||
| Dano_12s |
Is there a minimum bike+rider weight in any of the series? | ||
| Bads1 |
Americans haven't done great in MotoGP since the really dialed traction control era came on Actually thats not completely true. Hayden did fine adapting as did Hopkins. Edwards also adapted fine. Spies may have the shortest lived career in GP. His job is on the line this year. Edwards being one of the best development riders in the Moto GP paddock. Thats what really what has kept him there so long. | ||
| Bads1 |
Also remember Duhamel yes pulled off but he wasn't the only wildcard rider at that race that year. Roger Lee Hayden rode a Kawasaki and finished 10th that year infront of some good riders. BTW I was there that year also. I'd love to return again one day. | ||
| Jaimec |
Bostrom was a wild card last year at Laguna Seca. He also pulled off the track before the end of the race. | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm not so sure about Hopkins. He spent almost as much time at Clinica Mobil as he did on the track... | ||
| J2blue |
Well, out of curiosity, how do this years spec MotoGP bikes compare to most of the AMA superbikes... performance wise? | ||
| Brumbear |
I don't know I think Jaimec has hit home on this topic the bikes are 2 different animals completely but a couple riders might do well making a jump up. | ||
| Jaimec |
J2blue: MotoGP bikes are closer in specification to WSBK than they are to AMA SBK. Due to cost-cutting measures in AMA SBK, an AMA SBK is about on par with an FIM Super Stock bike. Even so, the MotoGP factory prototypes use far more exotic materials and more advanced electronics than any other form of motorcycle racing. It's like comparing Formula 1 to NASCAR. There is no comparison. Back in 2005 I saw my first MotoGP race at Laguna Seca. They were still running the 990cc bikes in MotoGP, and AMA SBK still had the factory exotica Yoshimura Suzukis. Mat Mladin set a class record to get the pole position in the AMA SBK race. That same time would've qualified him 17th on the MotoGP grid. We'll get a better idea in July when MotoGP and AMA SBK both run at Laguna Seca again. I expect the lap time differences to be even more dramatic. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Hayden did fine adapting as did Hopkins. Hopkins did not do so well. He was on a crappy bike, so we'll never know what he might have done on top equipment. Hayden won the championship in 2006, but did not win a lot of races. Rossi's DNF's and Hayden's consistency got him the championship. AND at that time the electronics were much less invasive than now. Riding was looser before the 800s, better suited to the dirt track Americans than it is now. Still, on the 990 Hayden tried to back it in for a while, and gave up and had to learn to keep the wheels more in-line. He is a hell of a rider, but was never dubbed with "alien" status. | ||
| Bads1 |
Spatten, Now scratch your head as to why Hayden is still on a factory bike??? Ask yourself Why Hopper lasted as long as he did on a factory bike. Ask yourself why Edwards is developing the CRT's??? But then ask yourself why Spies might not even be in the series next year ??? These riders are all top of there game. Thats what keep's them there for now. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Riders at the top of the game win a lot of races. | ||
| Bads1 |
Experienced riders hold jobs longer. Not many can do what they are doing. And to my point thats why they have held their jobs for a decade. | ||
| Danger_dave |
You want to win? Get an Aussie to ride it.  | ||
| Trojan |
I don't feel as if the moto gp riders are any better than ama riders. put any full time ama rider on a moto gp bike and I feel they could hang with all the gp riders. Moto GP riders (even those near the back of the grid) are much better than pretty much all AMA/BSB or even WSBK riders, period. They are the best in the world except for a couple that have paid for their rides and really shouldn't be there at all (Silva, Hernandez, Abraham). Although even they would be top running domestic series riders I'm sure. Put a good AMA rider on a MotoGP bike and it will take him the best part of a season to get used to the carbon brakes, electronics and shear power of a MotoGP bike. Look at how long it has taken Cal Crutchlow to get to grips with his Yamaha, and he is a WSS champion and World Superbike race winner. However you simply cannot compare superbikes to GP bikes because they are so very different. Even the 'production based' CRT bikes are much more exotic than the best Superbikes available. You only have to look at the ERT bike of Randy De Puniet to see how they have gone a lot further with the RSV4 than WSBK have. The only thing that lets them down is the stupid engine rules in MotoGP which means that the CRT bikes have less power than their Superbike forebears! In WSBK they can change engines in every session if they want to, but in MotoGP there is a strict limit to the amount of engines they can use in a year, hence they are 30bhp down on WSBK motors. Colin Edwards is on the downward slope of his MotoGP career, as is Nicky Hayden unfortunately. Ben Spies is fighting to keep his Yamaha factory ride for next year and I really don't see any new young US riders making the jump to MotoGP for a while yet. They need to get into Moto2 rather than languishing in domestic championships because they need to learn the tracks and be seen by MotoGP teams. | ||
| Hr_puffinstuff |
DD> Lorenzo is an Aussie??!!?? | ||
| Danger_dave |
I didn't realise he won last year - or was currently leading the standings :-P | ||
| Jaimec |
I think he means Valentino must be Australian, since he's won more races than anyone else still active in the series (and most of the riders NOT active any more). | ||
| Danger_dave |
Stoner has won more races since the start of the 800 era. Rossi *was* the best.......since Doohan :-P | ||
| Hr_puffinstuff |
i was referring to the 1st race of THIS year....but point well taken. when i was a pup, i thought i could run with anyone, all i needed was good equipment. watching Doohan (and Eddie) made me realize how woefully wrong i was. | ||
| Jaimec |
Reminds me of a recent club ride. One of the guys sold his Honda 750 Shadow and bought a Suzuki GSF1250 sport tourer and figured "NOW I can keep up with the fast guys." After our lunch break he walked up to me in the parking lot and said "Well, this has been the most humiliating day in my life." I asked him what was wrong, and he said that when we hit the first twisty road he took off with gusto after us, but when he came around the first turn, he couldn't even see me on my SCOOTER up ahead of him. "It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian." | ||
| Spatten1 |
My old boss at Kawasaki was on a ride with a bunch of SoCal fast guys in the 80's. He had just lost his girlfriend to a drunk driver and was riding as fast as possible because he didn't care if he died. He was white knuckling a corner on PCH, said he was going as fast as anyone possible could. He then felt something tapping his shoulder and looked to see what it was. Eddie Lawson was riding next to him one-handed, on the outside of the turn, tapping him on the shoulder. He was humbled. He also said Eddie would come in to the pits and ask for 1/2 pound less in one of the tires. He could come in a let them know he was 1 MPH off on the straight or a fraction of a second slower on the lap and he was right on. Amazing. |
