| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
The problem comes when the police advise Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon, but he continues to follow Trayvon. That is an absolute falsehood. Please listen to the 911 tape I just posted above. He is returning to his vehicle to meet the police, not following Trayvon. Where do these lies originate from? | ||
| Orman1649 |
I hear the media saying the whole thing is Zimmermans fault b/c he started following Martin against the "orders" of the 911 operator. Are all of their other racist arguments falling apart so quickly they have to all dogpile on this? Zimmerman probably should have listened to the 911 operator and stopped the pursuit but...he didn't. When he lost Martin he headed back to his car and (according to Zimmerman) was ATTACKED by Martin. If Martin DID attack Zimmerman, it's Martin's fault Martin is dead...not Zimmerman's. | ||
| Sifo |
Zimmerman probably should have listened to the 911 operator and stopped the pursuit but...he didn't. Please listen to the 911 tape. The officer said "we don't need you to do that" and he stopped following him, and was returning to his vehicle. The tape is available just a couple of posts above. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I only heard him say (@ 1:38) "these ash holes, they allways get away"... Where is the audio with the racial comments? | ||
| Reindog |
Trifecta asks some probing questions. Trayvon Tragedy: Did NBC Edit the Zimmerman 911 Tape to Serve a Political Agenda? | ||
| Sifo |
Where is the audio with the racial comments? That was the audio. To hear it you have to do a lot of massaging of the tapes, and then it only vaguely sounds like a voice. Ever watch "Ghost Hunters"? They play the same games with audio tape to try to find "voices". | ||
| Xdigitalx |
ok... give me a time... someone should know this. | ||
| Sifo |
It's at 2:22 in the tape. Why does that phrase sound nothing like Zimmerman in the rest of the tape? | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Why does that phrase sound nothing like Zimmerman in the rest of the tape? Because he is whispering/mumbling to himself instead of speaking to the 911 operator. If that is him,.. and it is unlikely it isn't, how does that make any difference in the case? It does not make him guilty of murder in any way shape or form. His story still checks out. Does that mean a person with common sense can not make racist remarks to have common sense? OR a racist can not have common sense and still be a racist? | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Not saying Zimmerman is a racist at all. I have no idea. I am saying... that when the fight or confrontation actually started... that that whispered statement had no bearing on the outcome. | ||
| Sifo |
Because he is whispering/mumbling to himself instead of speaking to the 911 operator. It also happens at a point in the tape where there is a lot of background noise. It could be Zimmerman. It could be random garbage that sounds like those 3 syllables. It could be Zimmerman saying something similar. I know F***ing goons has been suggested. If that is him,.. and it is unlikely it isn't, how does that make any difference in the case? It does not make him guilty of murder in any way shape or form. His story still checks out. Exactly. It's just like saying the rape victim shouldn't have worn that short skirt. It's nothing but blaming the victim. | ||
| Blake |
Evil opportunists fomenting hatred suck. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/04 /Congressional-Black-Caucus-Trayvon-Resolution | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
I listened to the unedited audio and put myself in the mindset of someone who wants to hear a racial slur and I heard " f-in punks". | ||
| Sifo |
As long as this issue was brought up, CNN has done more enhancing of the "slur". Personally I don't think it's conclusive that it's even a voice. Make up your own mind though. It still has no bearing on what happened though. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Well, there it is. Zimmerman called Martin a "cone". Or said he was *(*&*(* cold. If he was trying to call him a "coon", Zimmerman has pretty awful pronunciation. | ||
| Thumper74 |
Okay, so his story checks out? Even in the event he is racist, he has the right to defend him to protect himself from bodily harm or death... So if he checks out, the racist part doesn't matter unless it's a matter of someone else attempting to distort it for personal gain. Like his mother. Additionally, no words justify lethal force. Even a threat has to carry the legitimate belief/fear that the person has the means to carry it out. "I'm going to kill you" from a guy in California, when I'm in Ohio, doesn't justify anything. "I'm going to kill you" being uttered by someone bigger with a bat outside my car is a different matter. In Ohio, you would be justified to PREVENT bodily harm to death. Arbalest, confronting someone doesn't usually involve their in contact with the sidewalk. Just sayin'... (Message edited by Thumper74 on April 05, 2012) | ||
| Azxb9r |
A new development that I do not believe anyone has mentioned here yet is the voice analysis that was done on the 911 tape. The cries for help are not Zimmermans. An audio recording of Martins voice was not available for comparison to determine whether or not it was his voice, but if it is not Zimmerman who else does that leave? There are only two people that know what happened that night, and one of them is dead. That leaves us with only half of the story. The idea that we are going to get a 100% accurate account of the events from someone who realizes that they could be in hot water is not very likely. There is not a whole lot of evidence available to confirm or debunk Zimmermans story, but if he was lying about being the one crying for help it does not do much for his credibility. One of the unfortunate things about this case is that we may never know exactly what happened. It will continue to be speculation, which will just keep the argument going. | ||
| Cowboy |
Different states different rules Afriend of mine was murdered in Tex. when ask about his rights ar the trial the judge said a dead man in tex. does not have any rights his rights died with him. | ||
| Sifo |
A new development that I do not believe anyone has mentioned here yet is the voice analysis that was done on the 911 tape. The cries for help are not Zimmermans. An audio recording of Martins voice was not available for comparison to determine whether or not it was his voice, but if it is not Zimmerman who else does that leave? That's actually an old development. This guy is a professional "expert witness". He's just made it clear that he will be willing to accept the job for the Martin's lawyer, no shopping around necessary. I read that this sort of voice analysis typically requires at least 10 different words in normal speech to establish a rhythm, spacing between words, and other speech patterns. The 911 tape they analyzed had a single word being repeated... HELP! Even then they give a probability that the voice is Zimmerman's. To even begin to have any credibility that the voice is Martin's the same analysis would have to be done with a sample of Martin's voice (from a voice mail, etc.) and show a higher probability of it being Martin's. Even then the other side is going to hire their own expert witness to provide the opposite opinion. Many of these guy's simply hoar themselves out. I think the ones who actively do so such as this one are to be suspect. So far we haven't even gotten to the problems with this analysis though. Prior to this analysis, Martin's father had said that the voice wasn't that of his son. After the analysis, Zimmerman's neighbor came out claiming that the voice was Zimmerman (also that he was all bandaged up the next day). The real problem come when you have an eye witness who saw it happen and heard the screams. He said the person in red was on the ground being beaten by the guy in black and he could hear cries for help. After the gun shot the guy in red was walking around looking stunned and asked him to call 911. Zimmerman was in a red jacket. Are we really to believe that Martin was crying for help as he was on top of Zimmerman beating his head on the sidewalk? It's too much of a stretch for me to make. There is also the coroner who claims that Martin's body didn't look like he had been in a fight. Zimmerman on the other had was documented to be bleeding from his nose and back of his head. So how much damage would Martin's body show from a single punch to someone's nose then repeatedly slamming his head against the sidewalk? I would guess, not much... Beyond a single gunshot wound to his chest. There is at least "reasonable doubt" that the voice wasn't Martin. Realistically speaking there is an abundance of evidence that the person crying for help was in fact Zimmerman. So who's voice was crying for help on the 911 tape? | ||
| Reducati |
there is a note in the police report, that he (zimmerman) indicated he was crying for help...and nobody came out...this was noted way before the ill reverands jackson and the other clown from new york came to stir the pot, and if true would seem to exonerate mr. zimmerman. | ||
| Azxb9r |
So who's voice was crying for help on the 911 tape? That is the question. From what I understand nobody actually witnessed the incident, they arrived after the fact. I do not know what happened because I was not there. There are enough stories and speculation flying around right now that it is currently not possible to say with any certainty what happened. "Reasonable doubt" is the only thing that I would say certainly exists, but that works in both directions. | ||
| Azxb9r |
The point that I am trying to make is that we have people with very strong opinions about what happened and who is at fault, but we do not have enough evidence to make that kind of judgment at this point. Everybody needs to allow the investigation to run its course before they start getting outraged about what is or is not being done. | ||
| Sifo |
From what I understand nobody actually witnessed the incident, they arrived after the fact. I guess it might be fair to blame the bias in the media for ignoring these facts. Thankfully some some reporters actually do their jobs. http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news /022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-alterc ation
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| Azxb9r |
The problem with the "eyewitness" accounts is that they all begin with both men on the ground. No one saw what led up to the two ending up on the ground. To further complicate things, the witness accounts are contradictory regarding which man was on top. IMO the eyewitness accounts are essentially worthless at this point in determining what happened. Not a surprise. | ||
| Blake |
>>> IMO the eyewitness accounts are essentially worthless at this point in determining what happened. Not a surprise. There was one very solid eyewitness who saw the man in the hoodie atop and beating the man in the red jacket who was crying out for help. So why is his testimony "essentially worthless"? Prior to that we have the 911 tape. We also have testimony from witnesses in earshot of the incident. And we have the testimony of the shooter, and forensic evidence. This case appears to be well policed and easily closed. Unless your a racist, or a Democrat, or work for the liberal media. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Damn shame they couldn't have orchestrated such a tragedy during February hell they even had an extra day this year to try and pull it off. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Huh? Is there an actual eyewitness that contradicts the existing actual eye witness? I haven't heard that. Got a citation? You put 10 people in a room and tell them to watch something and take notes, then stress them out, and interview them later, and you will get 12 stories. The level of consistency in the evidence we have heard in this story so far is pretty remarkable... every solid fact seems to be telling the same story, and indicating that the cops made the right call when they chose not to arrest Zimmerman. I'm sorry Martin is dead. The really important lesson here from the media and civil rights leaders should simply be that pursuing a violent lifestyle is dangerous. | ||
| Sifo |
The problem with the "eyewitness" accounts is that they all begin with both men on the ground. No one saw what led up to the two ending up on the ground. To further complicate things, the witness accounts are contradictory regarding which man was on top. IMO the eyewitness accounts are essentially worthless at this point in determining what happened. Not a surprise. The 911 tape tells us Zimmerman broke contact with Martin. There is no question about that. There is only ONE person that I've heard of that SAW anything happen that night. Please tell of these other witnesses. The story of this witness contradicts nothing from the 911 tape. There are other witnesses that HEARD what happened. At least two have come forward saying it was Martin crying for help that they heard. They didn't see anything though, and knew neither Martin or Zimmerman. How reliably can they pick a voice from two men that they have never heard or seen? Their reasoning... The cries for help stopped with the gun shot, so Martin must have stopped crying for help when he was shot. Isn't it just as likely however that Zimmerman was crying for help and stopped when the threat to his life was eliminated? The rest of their account happened just like the witness that actually saw it happen though. It's actually unusual to get multiple accounts of something like this that agree so well. You want to dismiss all of them because two people (who were together when they heard it BTW) came to a conclusion that can't be reached with the information they witnessed. There is overwhelming evidence that it happened as Zimmerman claims and virtually nothing credible I've seen to contradict his story. I'm sure the police are aware of much more evidence that hasn't been made public and they chose to not charge him. Yet you choose to cling to the story as pushed by a media that has edited the 911 tape to make Zimmerman out to be a racist even after the facts have been personally explained to you. I really feel sorry for the guy who gets you on a jury. You are exactly who the lynch mob is hoping to get if they can extort the authorities into putting Zimmerman on trial. | ||
| Azxb9r |
Yet you choose to cling to the story as pushed by a media that has edited the 911 tape to make Zimmerman out to be a racist even after the facts have been personally explained to you. I really feel sorry for the guy who gets you on a jury. You are exactly who the lynch mob is hoping to get if they can extort the authorities into putting Zimmerman on trial.  Thank you for telling me what my opinion is on this issue...I may not have known otherwise. Whether or not Zimmerman is a racist is not the issue, and the media is just wasting time and clouding the picture by following it. Being a racist makes you a jerk...not a murderer. As far as the witnesses are concerned, none of them saw what happened leading up to the two men ending up on the ground. We know who won the fight, but that is not the issue...we need to know who started the fight. So far I have read 5 different witness accounts,1 has Martin on top, 2 have Zimmerman on top, and 2 are unsure who was on top. What makes one witness more credible than another? Seeing as how it was dark and raining I think the ones saying it was too dark to tell are more believable, but that still does not tell us who started it. The burden of proof lies with the accusor. At this time there is not enough proof to charge (or convict) Zimmerman of anything, but it is not exactly cut and dry either. What I have said (and will repeat) is that the investigation needs to be completed before people start developing such strong opinions about what actually happened. Anyone that claims to know exactly what happened that night is just being arrogant. | ||
| Reindog |
No need for the emotional response. You need to put on your thinking cap here. The DOJ and the media is trying to cast Zimmerman as a racist so they can bring Federal Hate Crime charges against him. Who claims to know exactly what happened? (Message edited by reindog on April 06, 2012) |
