| Author | Message | ||
     Guell |
Too a point yes, he didn't need to pursue him in the first place | ||
| Blake |
Andy, Where is this so-called BS coming from the right as you assert? Two examples please. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Too a point yes, he didn't need to pursue him in the first place Right, cause a neighborhood watchman shouldn't be looking out for the security of his neighborhood, he should just mind his own business. And just keeping an eye on a suspicious character is irresponsible. That's exactly the mentality of folks in neighborhoods that are over-run with crime. Really dumb. | ||
| Sifo |
Too a point yes, he didn't need to pursue him in the first place And Martin didn't have to come back and punch Zimmerman in the face and start beating his head against the ground. Don't let the facts of the case get in the way of a good story though. | ||
| Oldog |
It's too bad he didn't just let the cops do their job and let Martin walk away instead of following him I think that he may be refering to Zimmerman staying in his truck rather than following Martin, which I agree with,I hate to say this But Mr Martin Brought this on himself if as stated he grabbed Zimmerman From Behind} | ||
| Drkside79 |
OK i have seen the online photos go both ways. One with Trayvon looking like an angel and Zim the devil and the other reversed. That's bias in both directions. I also watched a Fox broadcast where they immediately cited this as an attack on the NRA. Now trust me on this one the Liberal Bias is worse. That I can admit. I don't think i ever said the left was innocent. | ||
| Guell |
I think that he may be refering to Zimmerman staying in his truck rather than following Martin, which I agree with,I hate to say this But Mr Martin Brought this on himself if as stated he grabbed Zimmerman From Behind This! I'm not saying Martin is innocent, I question why zimmerman left his vehicle though.} | ||
| Oldog |
Right, cause a neighborhood watchman shouldn't be looking out for the security of his neighborhood, he should just mind his own business. And just keeping an eye on a suspicious character is irresponsible. Zimmerman did the right thing when he called 911 and reported a prowler. he was not minding his own business, He could have done that from his truck. putting your self into a self defense situation ( like following Martin ) is not always the best course of action, Its a judgement call. Based on his comments about never catching the Arse-holes Zimmerman was agitated its a bad state to be in, in he context of the shooting. IMO a standing volunteer watch should be done as pairs and with Rules....} | ||
| Sifo |
OK i have seen the online photos go both ways. One with Trayvon looking like an angel and Zim the devil and the other reversed. That's bias in both directions. True. As a result of the media using a photo of Martin when he was a kid and showing Zimmerman in an orange jump suit from when he was arrested, but released on unrelated charges years ago, pictures were shown to demonstrate the bias being shown by the media. Play it straight and this BS won't have to happen. I also watched a Fox broadcast where they immediately cited this as an attack on the NRA. I would consider that to be a valid point about this story. Are you really unaware that this case is being used to rally against stand your ground laws supported by the NRA? I'll be happy to post some evidence if you should simply ask rather than call you a _________.  | ||
| Guell |
Right, cause a neighborhood watchman shouldn't be looking out for the security of his neighborhood, he should just mind his own business. And just keeping an eye on a suspicious character is irresponsible. That's exactly the mentality of folks in neighborhoods that are over-run with crime. Really dumb. so you feel like the call to 911 wasn't being watchful? Did I ever say he shouldnt have reported suspicious activity? Leaving his vehicle wasn't required, and it blew up into much more than it had to be. Why is just keeping an eye on a suspicious person irresponsible, was Martin breaking the law at the time eating skittles and walking in the rain? | ||
| Oldog |
Reading the discussions of the stand your grownd law makes the BadWeb look like a church ice cream social. I like the Hoodie with the holster pockets to carry your armaments in on the NRA site tongue and cheek =) | ||
| Sifo |
I'm not saying Martin is innocent, I question why zimmerman left his vehicle though. That's a valid enough point. I've made a point if it in this thread too. Bad choice on Zimmerman's part without a doubt. Had the fight broken out at that point, this case would be much different. The fact is though that when told by the police "We don't need you to do that", regarding following Martin, he stopped and was returning to his vehicle. Martin was at that point free to avoid any altercation, but HE made a decision to pursue Zimmerman at that point. It seems that decision was with the intent of harm to Zimmerman too. Why would Zimmerman not be within his rights at this point to defend himself? | ||
| Sifo |
Why is just keeping an eye on a suspicious person irresponsible, was Martin breaking the law at the time eating skittles and walking in the rain? And what laws were broken by Zimmerman? I can tell you what law Martin broke. Assaulting another person. | ||
| Guell |
Oh I agree with you on your points sifo, I think Martin was 100% at fault, I guess hind sight is 20/20, looking back it shouldn't have gotten to the point of assault and the use of a gun | ||
| Oldog |
Martin was at that point free to avoid any altercation, but HE made a decision to pursue Zimmerman at that point Had Zimmerman not left the truck Martin could not have harmed him, Once Martin layed hands on him I agree that It was Self defense, In particular with the other injuries that Zimmerman has. But HAD Zimmerman Drawn his gun and pursued Martin and provoked him to anger I have to rethink my opinion. As it stands that did not happen Martin came up behind Zimmerman and struck him in the face with enough force to knock him down Then restrained Zimmerman and continued the attack . Had Martin punched him and walked away then it would have been murder. I think self defense is a reasonable call with the facts as I see them.. Still 2 wrongs, sad and tragic..... }} | ||
| Reepicheep |
It is. It's also too bad if Martin was sitting on Zimmermans chest, punching him in the face, and beating his head on the concrete. All the more so if Martin, as alleged, circled back around to confront Martin and instigated a physical conflict (as alleged, and not yet contradicted by any of the evidence publicized). Martin is dead, I wish we could change that. I hope Zimmerman can get a fair trial, in spite of overt and covert agendas of the US mainstream media, and within the US department of justice. I sure hope Zimmerman doesn't go to jail because Eric Holder disagrees with the Florida "stand your ground" law. Just like I sure hope Eric Holder did not allow the "Fast and the Furious" operation to proceed because he wants to outlaw assault weapons in the US. | ||
| 7873jake |
I work in Sanford and live about 35 minutes away and watch this thing daily with ever increasing disgust for so many reasons. The local concern now centers around what happens when all of the self-appointed judges at pulpits and with loudspeakers feel that justice has not been served. If we don't arrest GZ, what gets burned? If we do arrest him but he is acquitted, what gets destroyed in the riot? If he's found guilty but not sentenced to death, will there be more outrage? One of the guys that works with me said today "the overdose of outrage is making me outraged" | ||
| Sifo |
The very idea of using this case to try to strike the stand your ground law is stupid in the first place. If they had a far more strict law where you need to be under continuous physical assault that if continued will end your life would have the same result in this case. I do see the argument that stand your ground can potentially create problems. That is the case with almost any law however. You will never get total agreement on what is the correct balance. Jake, you hit the nail on the head. We have a group of people who are unsatisfied with how the system worked and they are threatening to escalate things until they are satisfied. They are trying to instill the same fears that caused a jury to quite a certain well known murderer who I known by a certain FL fruit. The difference here is that an innocent man is likely to pay the price. If full blow riots break out, many innocents are likely to pay the price. | ||
| Sifo |
For anyone who has interest in a pretty unbiased accounting of FL's stand your ground law and how it fit's in this case, here's an interesting yet short piece from a FL law professor. http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news /article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/4/1/t rayvon_martin_law_p/ | ||
| Blake |
Matt (Guell), >>> hind sight is 20/20, looking back it shouldn't have gotten to the point of assault and the use of a gun Isn't that the case for any tragic use of force, justified or not? Heck, isn't that the case for any crime or offense against another human anywhere for any reason? But we ought to deal with reality, yes? The reality appears to be that without just/lawful cause, one man violently attacked another. The man being violently attacked defended himself. The unlawful transgressor/attacker in the case tragically ended up dead, but justifiably so. Any recriminations against Zimmerman seem woefully misguided. Either we are a nation of laws or we are a tyranny. Emotion ought not enter into the application or enforcement of our laws. No? | ||
| Sifo |
Interesting and scary account of where we could be heading with ginning up the race hatred. A first hand account to the 1992 riots in L.A. 1992 L.A. Riots - A First Hand Account (Part I) 1992 L.A. Riots - A First Hand Account (Part II) 1992 L.A. Riots - A First Hand Account (Part III) 1992 L.A. Riots - A First Hand Account (Part IV) Sure hope it doesn't come to this sort of thing. It wouldn't really surprise me though. | ||
| Aesquire |
Just like I sure hope Eric Holder did not allow the "Fast and the Furious" operation to proceed because he wants to outlaw assault weapons in the US. Small correction. Assault weapons are already federally restricted. Holder wants to prevent citizens from having weapons. Period. Zimmerman didn't shoot anyone with an Assault rifle. In fact, I will bet you that no legally civilian owned assault rifles have killed anyone in the last 50 years. The use of the term is a Handgun Control Inc. fabrication, and lie. ( if you call a duck an eagle, in order to ban duck hunting, it's a lie. ) (Message edited by aesquire on April 02, 2012) | ||
| Guell |
Isn't that the case for any tragic use of force, justified or not? Heck, isn't that the case for any crime or offense against another human anywhere for any reason? But we ought to deal with reality, yes? The reality appears to be that without just/lawful cause, one man violently attacked another. The man being violently attacked defended himself. The unlawful transgressor/attacker in the case tragically ended up dead, but justifiably so. Any recriminations against Zimmerman seem woefully misguided. Either we are a nation of laws or we are a tyranny. Emotion ought not enter into the application or enforcement of our laws. No? I agree Blake, Martin brought it upon himself. If he (martin) had just continued walking away and let the situation subside he would still be alive. | ||
| Cowboy |
This unrest is all the fault of a few Black trouble makers,If they would shut up this would go away/ Were it up to me they are the ones I would lock up. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/State-Attorney-No rm-Wolfinger-outraged-by-federal-review-request/-/ 1637132/10042672/-/tovmqt/-/index.html I still don't know what happened. It is a tragedy. It's exploitation is evil. While I'm at it.... I KNOW that the left leaning here pay attention to the gaffes and dumb things said by those they perceive as right. Just as the Right leaning pay attention to the "other side". So.... Has anyone seen one of the current R candidate say something dumb, or exploitive in this case. Primary NY is coming fast and I want to know who to vote against. Please. | ||
| Aesquire |
I believe the "black trouble makers" are, mostly, tools of the rich white guys... like George Soros who if not owns this admin, at least rents it. And while you parrot this crap, the price of fuel, and everything else, goes up..... and up.... and war looms. | ||
| Cowboy |
Aesquire Hell dont Blame me I have never voted for a DEMOCRAT in my life. | ||
| Aesquire |
Not your comments, the very discussion. It should not be speculation on a crime, but disgust at the "Dirty Laundry" and wholly owned Media pimps. Is it unreasonable to think this is a deliberate distraction from..... the Price of.... the Court decision....the upcoming war....the ongoing betrayal of England...Israel.....Poland.....Detroit! ?? | ||
| Oldog |
Aesquire: >> And while you parrot this crap, the price of fuel, and everything else, goes up..... and up.... and war looms. << Many are paying attention, almost daily We see abuse of executive power and Rommneys numbers are starting to slide VS BHO-le's If he's put back in by the "he gotz me a new phone see" crowd whats to do? I pray that folks see him (BHO-le) for what he is, This case with the in apropriate comments that highlight his racial bias, and the totaly corrupt team he has put in place. I hope that Zimmerman gets justice ... based on law not on mob rules... | ||
| Reepicheep |
I can't get very excited about Romney personally. He just doesn't inspire me. That being said, I think he at least has a clue about how to be an effective leader, will obey the constitution, govern based on facts and emotion (instead of just emotion), will work with supporters and opponents alike, and seems capable of simple math (well, I suppose compound interest is complex math, but you get my point). Unlike our current commander in chief, who I assumed would be 'mostly harmless" when he took office. I couldn't believe he could really be as bad as he is until I saw it with my own eyes. I disagreed with Clinton politically, and I was deeply offended with him morally. He was left of where I wanted the country to go, but he took it there reasonably, fairly, and effectively. President Obama is just an unprepared leader. It's amateur hour in the white house. So if you are asking my opinion, I'd say vote against Obama. If you want a leftist democrat, try and find one that can at least understand the effect of compound interest, and one capable of understanding what creating broad new executive powers out of whole cloth will do to the country over time. |
